Folklore, local beliefs, a bit of language and culture

[Bakaneko]

Yo!

Imsa Bakaneko, a new kitten around here.


As it happens, I'm an amateur writer(writter wannabe), who is charmed greatly by japanese folklore, wich I find beautiful, rich and a-ma-zing!

My current project is a fantasy novel, in wich I'd like to include some pieces from far cool east.

The theme would be kitsunes. I was able to find some stories and informations on my own, I will also look up the modern culture medias(manga and anime mostly), as the kitsune seems to be charming regardless of wich generation you belong to.

I'd like to learn japanese language one day, but small steps, as the saying goes, wich is why I am humbly requesting an assistance.

The fox demon playing main role in the novel would be called Popielis(from PL: Lis=fox, Popiół-ash) so I guess I could name it in english as Ashenfox. Any ideas how it could be called in japanese?

Also, my current idea is for kitsune to have courts, in similar manner to fae from far west. It was inspired by the terms I've stumbled upon on internet: Zenko and Yako. I'd like to grant them some clan names, as the Courts/Fractions would be not monolithic inside.

I think I can cover some of the names, but would appreciate any suggestions in that regard as well.


I am aware of how mighty help I am seeking. As I'm still none, the only kind of gratitude I am able to reply any kindness on this topic is a mention on frontword section of the novel when it is done. And I will write it anyway. No matter how long would it take.

Thanks for your time, Bakaneko.

 

[Majestic]

Hmmm. Ash is "hai" (灰) and fox, as you already know, is "kitsune" (狐), so one possibility is "Haigitsune", or maybe "Haigo" or "Haigu" if using the on-yomi for kitsune, but to tell the truth both of these options sound dorky to me. I'm not native, so maybe it sounds better than I think it does.

 

[Bakaneko]

well, fantasy stories are full of dorky und cheesy lines
Thanks for the reply! I'll try to work it out ;3

 

[Nulambda]

Hmmm. Ash is "hai" (灰) and fox, as you already know, is "kitsune" (狐), so one possibility is "Haigitsune", or maybe "Haigo" or "Haigu" if using the on-yomi for kitsune, but to tell the truth both of these options sound dorky to me. I'm not native, so maybe it sounds better than I think it does.

I don't know about anybody else, but Haigo and Haigu sound pretty cute to me. It would be fitting if the book in question was geared towards children.

 

[Bakaneko]

Well... call me weird but I find it cute anyway xD and the thing would be propably targeted toward audience with 8th grader syndrome or random 13-17, so should fit ;p

 

[Nulambda]

Well... call me weird but I find it cute anyway xD and the thing would be propably targeted toward audience with 8th grader syndrome or random 13-17, so should fit ;p

Then they should work perfectly.

One idea I've had for names of a different race is to name them the literal translation of Japanese formal names. For example, 山川 would be Mountain River. I have yet to really look at a list of names to see if there are enough that work. But if there are, it might be a good idea for your clan names.

 

[Bakaneko]

Oh oh, that sounds like a good call. And what name those kanji stand for?
One could go further with this and make each clan head given a name coresponding to clan, like the North Star clan leader would be named Hokuto.

 

[Nulambda]

Oh oh, that sounds like a good call. And what name those kanji stand for?
One could go further with this and make each clan head given a name coresponding to clan, like the North Star clan leader would be named Hokuto.

I'm glad to have helped.

山川 is やまかわ (yamakawa).

 

[Bakaneko]

Once again thanks ;3 your help pushes me forward greatly, because I am of the type, that first designs world, and leave plot-thing for the last to be done. Ofc I do have some storylines drawn already, but there are things that don't let me sleep until they are done.

I am considering using multi-world theme to explain why the abnormal creatures in the story resemble our myths and local beliefs, wich would be tied by gods who are influencing multiple domains at once.

So, clannames checked, found already a nice site with some japanese surnames explained.

 

[Toritoribe]

I prefer "haigitsune" for "Ashenfox".
Rendaku usually doesn't occur on on'yomi compound words, as in 白狐(byakko, not byakugo/byaggo) or 妖狐(yōko, not yōgo), thus, on'yomi of 灰狐 should be "kaiko".

Rendaku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One could go further with this and make each clan head given a name coresponding to clan, like the North Star clan leader would be named Hokuto.

Does that mean it's not necessary to use "kitsune" or "ko"?

 

[Bakaneko]

Hmmm, so Haigitsune would be more proper in regard of language regulations?
So Haigu can't come into existence?

Let me clarify the thing: Foxes split into zenko and yako, zenko are Inari Foxes, while yako are Bad Foxes, Rogues etc. Zenko/Yako=Fraction. And in each fraction there are smaller groups, families/clans.
In regard to Yako clans, I like the idea wich Nulambda presented, using literal translations of surnames. Like Yamakawa going Mountain River Clan, or Himura being Scarlet Village Clan. And what I've proposed on the quoted piece, was finding names wich could be tied to the clan name for the clanheads, like Koizumi Clan head would be a fox named Haru or Haruko

 

[Toritoribe]

Haigu can exist, but has a different meaning from "ash fox" (廃具 "obsolete tool", for instance).
Romaji just provides the pronunciation of the word. The kanji carries the meaning. Thus, "ko" in "Zenko" or "Yako" doesn't always mean "fox". (There are so many homonyms in Japanese, as you might know. For example, Solar Village(日村) is more common than Scarlet Village(緋村) as a Japanese family name "Himura".)

yako are Bad Foxes

You must misread yōko (妖狐) with yako.

Koizumi Clan head would be a fox named Haru or Haruko

Izumi ONLY refers to "spring" as "fountain", and NEVER means "spring" as a season. Izumi and Haru have nothing to do with each other in Japanese.

 

[Bakaneko]

Bleh, nono to Obsolete Tools xD
But there's a gem of power I'd like to call Fox Eye or something similar.
Ah, okai. spring is both. Wahahah, misread that.
And about yako thing I didnt mean literal translation ;3 While browsing kitsune on wiki I got that thing. Yako were the foxes who commited crimes and were typically bigger then a mouse and smaller then a cat, often around weasel sized yokai.

 

[Nulambda]

I believe Bakaneko is talking about 野狐（やこ）and 善狐（ぜんこ）.

But, I would suggest using other sources then just wikipedia.

 

[Toritoribe]

While browsing kitsune on wiki I got that thing. Yako were the foxes who commited crimes and were typically bigger then a mouse and smaller then a cat, often around weasel sized yokai.

Here's an explanation in Japanese wikipedia.

日本においては、狐霊には、大きく野狐（やこ）という、いわゆる野良の狐と、善狐（ぜんこ）という善良（とされる）狐の二つの種類があるとされる。また、野狐で人に危害を加えないものもあれば、善狐で性質のよろしくないものもある。

妖狐 - Wikipedia

Yako just means "field/wild (spiritual) fox". It's not always "bad". You are referring to a specific type of yako told only in Kyushu region, as also in English wikipedia.

野狐（やこ）は、九州地方に伝わるキツネの憑き物。

野狐 - Wikipedia

Yako (野狐) is a spirit possession of foxes (kitsune), as told in Kyushu.

Yako (fox) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nulambda]

Here's the breakdown of foxes:

狐 (きつね) Kitsune: Is a fox. There are many myths surrounding foxes, much like how many other cultures had myths about various animals. Such as having magic abilities and some way to communicate with humans. Foxes in general are considered to be tricksters.

妖狐 (ようこ) Youko: Is a demon/ sprite/ mythical fox. There is no real perfect translation. But this is basically what English speakers call kitune. They're one ones that the mythology's are really about. This word may have been formed to create a distinction between the foxes in myths and mundane foxes. Youko is basically the general category that the following foxes are under.

白狐 ( しろぎつね) Shirogitsune: White fox. Is a spiritual fox.
黒狐（くろこ、こくこ） Kuroko, kokuko: Black fox. I could not find any information on this.
金狐 (きんこ) kinko: Gold fox. I could not find any information on this.
銀狐 （ぎんこ） Ginko: Silver fox. I could not find any information on this.
九尾の狐 (きゅうびのきつね) Kyuubi no kitsune: Nine tailed fox. This type of fox is more commonly known as it's used in various anime and games. This fox has more power the more tails it has.
天狐（てんこ） Tenko: Celestial fox. It's a fox that has lived for 1000 years. It also has all nine tails.
空狐 ( くうこ) Kuuko: Sky fox. This fox is like the Tenko. Except it has lived 3000 years and is more powerful.
仙狐（せんこ） Senko: A Zenko that has lived for 1000 years.
善狐（ぜんこ） Zenko: Generic name for a good fox.
野狐 (やこ、のぎつね) Yako, Nogitsune: A fox spirit that is capable of possession. Or, a wild fox.

This is just a list to help you find more information.

If I'm wrong about anything, feel free to correct me.

 

[Nulambda]

I learned this from anime in general. (So take it with a grain of salt.): Foxes are highly intelligent. They are commonly associated with fire. They enjoy playing tricks on people for fun, whether or not the trick is harmless. A young fox has one tail, but as they get older, they grow more. With each tail they become more powerful. As foxes grow older, they also become more intelligent and wise. Foxes have the ability to shape-shift. They have been known to change into a human frequently and also have relationships with humans.

 

[Bakaneko]

hym-hymm, this is why one simply cannot not love japanese folklore... so rich and deep

Yea, fox tricksters are like multinational and they are often alligned with terms [Red/Ginger] and [Lie]

I can work with how things have turned out. Oh and yup, auntie Wiki is a shady business, but sometimes a good source. There is this site: Japanese Fox Stories - Kitsune, Kumiho, Huli Jing, Fox wich I found rather intriguing.

 

[Toritoribe]

So, clannames checked, found already a nice site with some japanese surnames explained.

Just out of curiosity, what site are you going to refer to?

白狐 ( しろぎつね) Shirogitsune: White fox. Is a spiritual fox.

Just one correction.
When 白狐 is read shirogitsune, it refers to an animal arctic fox, whereas byakko is a kind of yōko. Similarly, 野狐 only refers to "wild fox" when it's read nogitsune, whereas yako is a yōkai.

白狐 - Wikipedia
妖狐 - Wikipedia

 

[Bakaneko]

Just out of curiosity, what site are you going to refer to?

Well, I meant this site as one of the sources: Behind the Name: Japanese Surnames

So Byakko would be a white fox yokai?

 

[Toritoribe]

Well, I don't trust a site that only provides romaji names without kanji. Himura (Solar Village vs Scarlet Village) is a typical example. Of course, there are names that have only one meaning such like Nakamura "middle/center/inside village", though. Also, long vowels must be distinguished from short vowels. 伊藤 is Itō, Itô, Itou or Itoh, and not Ito. Itō is a common family name, but ito means string or intention. Incidentally, the site you linked says that "I" in "Itō" means "this", but actually "I" is from the name of a province 伊勢 "Ise". Itō clan was originally from Fujiwara clan who lived in Ise (伊勢の藤原 = 伊藤).

So Byakko would be a white fox yokai?

Yes.

 

[Nulambda]

Thanks for finding errors. I was using wikipedia, so it wasn't the best source.

You can use this list: 日本の苗字(名字)の一覧とは (ニホンノミョウジノイチランとは) [単語記事] - ニコニコ大百科

In conjunction to denshi jisho: Find words - Denshi Jisho

You will have to select "names and places" in the dictionary list. If you cannot read Japanese, you can check the box for "kana as romaji."

This will involve a lot of copying and pasting. But it's the only way I see to do it.