Your Stance on Marijuana Legalization

I think marijuana should be....

  • legal and unregulated

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • legal but regulated

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • illegal but with light penalties for use

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • illegal and come with severe penalties for use

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9

Mark of Zorro

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I think it should be legalized, with restrictions, similar to that other recreational drug, alcohol. (Yes, alcohol is a recreational drug. Its a mind altering substance, and the fact that you drink it rather than inhale it or inject it makes no difference. Drinking is swallowing, and you swallow pills, yes?)
 
No, I don't swallow pills... I CHEW and EAT them like a rabbit eats its curd... hee, hee, hee.....

O.K., American Joke (oyaji gag) time is over for today. Now I'll respond. Yes, it reasons out better in the overall, that cannabis has no overly persuasive reason to be some kind of illegal substance. It can be handled, as Mark of Zorro has pointed out, just like liquor--and even coffee(?). It can be reasonably strongly and persuasively argued, at the same time (in agreement with the OPP), that some degree of control over 'legal age of use,' however, and, further more, a balanced and extensive educational program should be in place as well. That would primarily be a brain damage prevention activity due to the results of some studies which suggest, rather robustly, that certain hippocampal alteration can result which are not found with alcohol. However I, for one, at least, would argue the same for the other casual substances too--although coffee has been shown to be helpful in some (not everyone is exactly of the same chemical and network processing build, and we will always that what is sometime said to the be those one percenters--for whom no medicine seems to work right) for preventing, or at least putting off an potential for cancerous tumor development.

With legalization across the board, and addressing the issue in public circles with balanced and good (based on sound and valid evidence) those who do get some relief from some autoimmune diseases, could relax a little bit more. It should be kept in mind, I still maintain, however, that medical use of cannabis is not all that it is sometimes cracked up to be. As far as I know, this appears to likely be that bell-curve type effect. It works for some, true, but does not work for all. I suspect some maybe, shall we say "wishful thinkers" just want to enjoy the substance effect, and don't really give a raised eyebrow over whether the medicinal efficacy is present for their health situation, or even relevant.

So yeah. Legalize it again, worldwide... (I like to think BIG... hee, hee, hee... no pun intended [I think]) and support that with public education, and make sure groups are set up to help with those who later in their lives might want to break the habit.
 
I thought this thread would really take off. Guess not.

Oh well, in the interest of helping it along, it you think pot should be illegal, I will try to change your mind. In fact, I will probably abuse you, accuse you of using bad science, cherry picking science, being emotional or a sheeple incapable of original thought, or just too scared to challenge society or your conservative brethren, or something like that. So if the promise of a chance to wallow in your masochism entices you, please post your thoughts!
 
I thought this thread would really take off.
あのね、I am of the opinion, be that as humble of an opinion as one may wish to bend it into being, that we might want to reconsider what any event which may be described by the terminology 'take off' might seem to draw up in our minds, emotionally as well as in a picturesque manner. Though I were to wish otherwise, and find great pleasure in your efforts here, I can but only question whether we could really say that any threads here in the Serious Discussion sub-form actually, 'take off.' I wish I could see otherwise, feel otherwise, and so on, but, alas, I cannot. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, I guess. I, for one, and my herein silly stylishness, wish to thank you, Mark of Zorro, for your great efforts. (Maybe if we went nuclear, it might help? hee... hee... hee....; carry on)
 
It used to be Legal in Japan.

The Americans made it illegal.

In fact that blessing thing - the wood in the paper you get from temple, actually has to do with hemp and marijuana on some level.

But hey ho - Japan is under the yoke of American Cultural imperialism like no other nation. Perhaps one day you will stand up for your selves.
 
So those who think it should be illegal are dead silent outside of voting.

I guess I am less interested in their "opinion" and more interested in the scientific evidence they founded that "opinion" on.
 
Is life experience "evidence"? It's observable and testable, so I guess so. Every pot smoker I have known was a lazy slob that did nothing with their life. Well, unless you think ordering pizza and playing games for 9 hours a day is an accomplishment.
 
Can you smoke weed and still achieve meaningful things in life?

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Is life experience "evidence"? It's observable and testable, so I guess so. Every pot smoker I have known was a lazy slob that did nothing with their life. Well, unless you think ordering pizza and playing games for 9 hours a day is an accomplishment.

Maybe you haven't known enough pot smokers. Or you don't know that some of your friends and associates smoke pot. I've known judges, state prosecutors, multi-millionaire contractors and project developers, bankers, and business owners who have smoked pot. I've played poker with all these types. And perhaps a joint did occasionally circulate the table, and everyone partook. And yes, maybe I took a toke or two myself, but I didn't inhale.

Two US states (Colorado and Washington) have gone legal on pot, with the politically important proviso that the state may tax it. Will taxes compel the state to ban growing your own supply of weed? Will the history of moonshining alcohol repeat itself, with its murders and bloody whiskey wars? When government is lusting after new sources of tax revenues, the bureaucrats have been known to trample on individual rights.
 
Is life experience "evidence"? It's observable and testable, so I guess so. Every pot smoker I have known was a lazy slob that did nothing with their life. Well, unless you think ordering pizza and playing games for 9 hours a day is an accomplishment.

I am all good with life experience. I have known that type of pot smoker and I have known the type that is hard working and responsible. Come to think of it, I have known both these types with drinkers of alcohol too. But on the whole I found the pot smokers to be less harmful to those around them.

I find it hard to get upset that someone has chosen to do "nothing" with their life or is lazy or a slob. And I cannot understand giving oneself a headache trying to convince them to change. Of course its different if that person is driving themselves into debt, ruined health, flirting with death or getting near homelessness. But I think blaming marijuana for these things is something of a cop out. Mind you some people may not be able to handle marijuana. In that case, they should not be given it, just like you don't give driver's licenses to those who cannot drive right.

And that is why I said legal but regulated. Freedom does not have to mean a "free for all". Everyone should get just as much freedom as they prove they can handle. It does not have to be chaos.
 
I don't see any issues with it. The state has not collapsed in on itself yet here in Colorado.

I will let you all know if the sh*t hits the fan though, not betting on it, but if all goes well at least there will be a positive example that hopefully will encourage people to at least enlighten themselves a bit on marijuana and its history.
 
Perhaps you guys are looking for a large difference. I am just observing a moderate to mild decline in the quality of life. I am not saying that people can't hold a job, but for most people out there, it's not their job that makes them happy. I have known far too many pot smokers that have no ambition in life, in fact none of them have any. Some are old and alone because they don't even try. But hell, they all have jobs, so that's OK right?

Yeah, you can compare it to other drugs and bring out a ruler judge it better or worse, but does our society really need another burden on it? They add up after a while and people find themselves in despair, or just a stupor, depending on if it's payday.
 
Perhaps you guys are looking for a large difference. I am just observing a moderate to mild decline in the quality of life. I am not saying that people can't hold a job, but for most people out there, it's not their job that makes them happy. I have known far too many pot smokers that have no ambition in life, in fact none of them have any. Some are old and alone because they don't even try. But hell, they all have jobs, so that's OK right?

Yeah, you can compare it to other drugs and bring out a ruler judge it better or worse, but does our society really need another burden on it? They add up after a while and people find themselves in despair, or just a stupor, depending on if it's payday.

Whether or not it brings down the quality of life, I do not like the fact that people are being criminally penalized, and quite severely in some countries like Japan, for using a drug that is no more dangerous than alcohol. Marijuana has gotten an undeserved bad wrap, and putting somebody in jail, and totally screwing up their life in many cases, for using or possessing it is the real crime against society.
 
I have known far too many pot smokers that have no ambition in life, in fact none of them have any. Some are old and alone because they don't even try. But hell, they all have jobs, so that's OK right?

Hmmm....is it not possible that they smoke pot BECAUSE they have no ambition in life and are old and alone?? Does it have to be the other way round?

Either way, I still cannot see why you would support having it illegal just for those reasons. It sounds like you feel a need to micromanage the lives of others. Further, having it illegal has not stopped the people you know to smoke pot. Have you ever considered that having it illegal might have a lot to do with why they smoke it, or why they are the way they are? After all, since they smoke, they are now criminals according to the law. Having people identify as criminals just for a personal habit that harms no one is really not a good thing at all. People really don't tend to do well if they feel like any sort of reject from society. It tends to send them in a downward spiral.
 
I have experienced the issue first hand and second hand, and you can take that to mean whatever you may. I believe it should be decriminalised on medicinal grounds, and legalised on grounds that it will take a large market of users away from dealers who will expose them to a miriad of other addictions. The current prohibition policies around the world are clearly showing that as drug policy, it does not work. The only issue i have with it being decriminalised is that it is 'socially' and 'psychologically' addictive. Its chemical addiction pales in comparison to just about every other substance classified as addictive in the world, including tobacco and alcohol, and much less damaging than alcohol.

Alcohol would be a good example to use: for the most part, people do not abuse it, they respect and enjoy it responsibly, because we all need to lead productive lives. I am actually against having over the counter marijuana in cafes and restaurants as other countries have done (even though the evidence shows a vast majority of users are recreational only), but i am for having the ability to grow small quantities (or purchased from an authorised grower), with a permit, based upon medicinal or psychological need. Most people who are significantly addicted to marijuana do not care that it is illegal or not. They simply go to their nearest dealer, which might be their neighbour, to get more whenever they have money to afford it, and there is nothing to stop them from doing it. They know they have to hide it however, which for any addiction, is not a good thing. If marijuana were decriminalised, people would not need to go to a dealer, they would not be exposed to contaminated product, they could purchase or grow product that specifically targets their condition, and they would neither have nor need a facility to obtain more. We could then create a culture of openness about the issue and have far more resources available to us to address the real drug problem in society.
 
The current prohibition policies around the world are clearly showing that as drug policy, it does not work.

It works for the drug dealers, police and those with private contracts on police related things, such as those who build and maintain prisons. They all get job security...some get filthy rich. And they don't want it to change.

And its hard to fathom how us usual normal people would support them in that. I want to tear the bastards down frankly. They have leeched off of and corrupted society enough damn it.
 
Society puts too much emphasis on economics. Since when were we born to pay for the air we breathe (forgive the pun, given the subject matter). In an ideal society, economic policy would be to simply observe and manage, not manipulate, for if we are satisfying our needs and desires responsiblly, money becomes irrelevant as something to set your sights upon. The economic value of all things would be balanced. Understanding and satisfying the human condition is a far more fruitful, though loftier, endeavour.
 
And why are people this way? Why do people feel the need to consume mood altering substances?

There is not a single answer to that question. However, genetics and personal circumstance play a large role. More people turn to mood altering substances and more often, when they under persistent stress and living in impoverished conditions. That goes for all addictions, including gambling, sex, and substance abuse. You shoulder your opinion upon the path of least resistance to you and simply say, all of these people cause their own fate, and deserve whatever consequences that come, but surely you also realise that is a very oversimplified view. You could have said the same for women, coloureds, and native/indigenous peoples back in the day (and perhaps still currently), because the statistics would show that their behaviour was not normal, and hence not acceptable. It is a mistake to think that we need to change these peoples' behaviour in order to solve the problem. That will only work where there is reasonable facility and capacity for the person to do so, and part of the reason why we have frowned upon groups of people in the past is because statistics show that providing a facility for that change does not necessarily lead to a change in capacity or the resultant behaviour. The black man was at a time treated as vermin, and whenever the black man behaved accordingly or reacted in a way to challenge it, it was seen as unacceptable behaviour. More recently the black man has been accused of being aggressive and violent, but even the statistics don't agree with that. People still may associate the black man with violence, because they are more likely to be frustrated by the disdain that some members show to them, and display behaviour that may appear to represent aggression. Its no different with any minority of people. The biggest determinant, shown throughout history, of behavioural outcomes, do you know what it is? Social expectation! We all have a a sense of what is 'normal' or 'expected'. It is our nature to notice when things differ from what we expect, it is how we learn, and in my personal opinion also makes life somewhat interesting. To turn around however, and say that our behaviour toward minorities has no bearing on their behaviour, is saying therefore, that you consider them to be non-human. The result is that society builds a culture of condemning all differences, and by our nature, continually frustrates us. To blame the victim is simply consistent with that ignorant view. If they are not a victim, providing them with the chance to prove it will do no harm to your own personal judgement. Prohibition is an antiquated philosophy, it is simply necessary at an extreme point, and even then there is always much more (in the vast majority of cases) to a person than what they have done. We are talking about a herb that is labelled a drug and an addictive substance because we find its use undesirable. If we ignore that the behaviour of users is influenced by society, we will not improve upon the problems we perceive as actually happening, because their behaviour alone is enough for you to believe it. Their behaviour, aside from anything else, is also a result of what society deems 'normal'. To shift your view beyond black and white gives room to allow what is normal to have a rethink, and will make you realise that nothing is black and white, they are simply standards we either accept or reject, and we accept or reject them based upon our experience. If you are not willing to challenge your experiences, you simply cannot change, and you simply cannot see the better outcome.

It may turn out that societies view of what is and is not normal is a larger causal factor than anything else. We associate what is normal because that social facility is advantageous for us in family and peer groups. We need to see the advantage of understanding groups of people beyond our experience and comfort, because whether we like it or not, we all affect each other, so we all need to establish a means of residing in peace when no violence is sought.

To seek a world that is no different from what your experience tells you it is, is to seek ignorance, it is to seek conflict with other groups whose only crime is that you feel threatened by them. Violence does not exist without conflict. At that point the only thing left is the hope that they will just go away, but soon enough someone will throw the first rock, and you will rationalise that you were right about them. Yet, you will have no perception that they too will think themselves right about you, but they have far more to fear as a minority than you. They may even think that you only understand violence. Its a dangerous place to be, but accepting only your experience as truth will inevitably bring you into conflict with others who offer a different opinion, and having a difference of opinion makes no difference to you unless you feel threatened by them being the majority, and you have no way of knowing what they want if your door is closed to them. Acquiring acceptance, freedom, respect, and understanding are hardly things you need to worry about.

And going the other way by saying that all people are created the same, is a rather convenient interpretation of being created equal, for the majority.
 
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It's all about where you draw the line. If you draw the line at whatever you do not know to be true based upon your experience, you are inadvertedly victimising anyone that does not share your experiences and who are not accustomed to your values. That is the reality, despite your intention. Most public policy needs a rethink, because most public policy is based upon a majority opinion without logical representation of its many groups. I'm not against a concensus, but it needs to be a qualified and informed concensus. Hearing from the majority of people who have no idea about other opinions is a rather predictable outcome since they are already the majority. The marijuana debate is a clear example of our need to reframe majority opinion as qualified and informed. It means accepting that opinions other than your own and the concensus may have recognisable and non-threatening value, and it seems obvious therefore that there is no harm in drawing a line there.
 
I am for the legalization of Maijuana, although there should be age restrictions and a limit in the amount someone could have.

Although I am from Amsterdam, I have only smoked it less than 10 times (in Amsterdam, I'm not talking about my Working Holiday time in Australia ;) ). In Holland there aren't big problems regarding it, except for the amount of tourists that go there and the stereotype conversations people have with me.

Where are you from?
I'm from Amsterdam.
WOW, that so cool. I went there for a weekend and smoked soo much! That place is awesome. :eek:
 
In Holland there aren't big problems regarding it, except for the amount of tourists that go there and the stereotype conversations people have with me.

The Dutch are so misunderstood (reminds me of someone I know!)

But when you are the only guy selling weed, you attract all kinds. Then people play the association game...

For all the above, plus needless pressure applied to Holland by that pack of cretin mercenaries known as the U.N. Narcotics Commission, Holland is changing in its policies of sense and freedom. Its terribly unfortunate that others have not come to the defense of Holland pretty much except for those who nobody has any respect for and for much better reasons than their drug habits.
 
I found this on Youtube, I'm sure many have probably already seen it but i thought it appropriate for this thread:Pot Shop - Macklemore Thrift Shop PARODY - YouTube

That was good!

I especially liked their pointing out of the prison related corporations. People quickly recognize the others and their heinous behavior, but not the prison corps so much, and they are major players in making America a police state with the highest incarceration rate in the world. God I hope no one thinks that is hyperbole. Here I will quote wiki on that:

The incarceration rate in the United States of America is the highest in the world.

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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