What I need to learn Japanese

[Speedy9199]

I was thinking about getting some Japanese language textbooks but I don't want to go to a Japanese class before learning more basic things to be more prepared. I wish to buy a Japanese language learning software which I can use on my free time to help me learn Japanese. I need software that will teach me by memorizing things. I have tried Rosseta Stone but it was the worst learning experience ever and a complete waste of money. Rosseta Stone teaches the language as if it's your first language and if your too old this way is almost impossible to learn a language. I need to learn mostly Hiragana and sentence structure the most. When I learn all of the basics I also need a computer program or something that allows me to write/type Japanese and TELLS me or hints to me that the sentence is wrong or not understandable. I need it to be like Microsoft word, that it tells you that a sentence is a fragment or run on, or a spelling error and something similar to that. Trial and error of learning to write Japanese may sound extremely hard but I was able to properly learn Computer language this way(yes computers have their own "languages" which can be just as hard as learning any other language) Even though this may sound very frustrating to learn it this way it is something I have the patience to do and found that it works best for me. I would really like to use the trial and error method to learn but if Japanese is "impossible" to learn this way please tell me.

Also online language resources like wiki I do not trust, for the most part and I have a hard time understanding the language this way.

 

[eeky]

Since you mention Word, I believe a Japanese spelling/grammar checker is actually available for MS Office 2010. It seems to be something you have to buy separately from Microsoft as an extra (unless, I suppose, you have the full ja version installed). I have never used it though, and I have no idea if it is any good.

---------- Post added at 02:31 ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 ----------

Searching for more information, I came across this rather discouraging comment (albeit from 2008):

View topic - Microsoft Word's Japanese grammar checker any good? | TheJapanesePage.com

 

[Speedy9199]

Japanese is harder to learn than I thought

I mean, I would be eventually able to write/speak Japanese well if something was able to correct me while I write it/speak it. Textbooks can help me but they can't correct me if I am wrong on things. Looks like I have to take a class but the main problem is that there are hardly any Japanese people around the city I live.

 

[Angel Valis]

I really wouldn't rely on a machine to correct you even if there was something like this. Computer languages are completely understood by the compiler and/or interpreter, which can tell you if you've made an error, but are VERY simple compared to the grammar and syntax of a human language (which often has a multitude of exceptions, unlike computer syntax).

Word misses spelling and grammar mistakes because even though something may be correct/incorrect in actual usage, the rudimentary way in which Word checks your syntax and spelling has a really hard time determining whether the way you're trying to use the language is right or wrong.

I will agree that Rosetta Stone isn't the greatest, but its method (full immersion) is actually a good one. The main problem with it is that it gives you absolutely no direction on HOW to use it effectively.

The Genki textbooks are good, and my school has recently started using Nakama. If you want to be corrected, then keep posting on here and asking questions; try Live Mocha or Lang8; or just dive into a class, that's what they're there for; to help.

 

[Mike Cash]

Get something that has what everybody hates: tons of drill material. The key is learning patterns and having 1) the vocabulary to drop in to fit the situation and 2) sufficient familiarity and experience with the patterns and their usages that you don't have to think about them when you use them. This is key to avoiding the awkward habit of having to translate/assemble sentences in your head before you open your mouth and try to get them out before you forget them and instead being able to do what you do in your native language, which is to start speaking and create your sentences "on the fly" as you're talking. Works in reverse for listening as well. There is no substitute for experience and exposure. Drill until you're sick of it. Drill until your mind goes blank. And then....keep on drilling. When your brain can still kick things out even though your conscious mind has become too numb to play much of an active role, that is when your most effective work is being done....internalizing the material. Memorize it, you can forget it. Internalize it and it is yours without ever having to think about it again.

And be prepared to make a million mistakes and feel stupid a million times. That's just part of the territory. The difference between adult learners who learn a foreign language well and those who don't is that those who learn it well go ahead and put themselves and their errors out there and suffer the enbarassment. It's all part of the feedback loop for learning.

I would give you some specific materials if I could, but nothing I used back when I was studying is still on the market, as far as I know, or at least it has all been superseded by newer and probably better materials. I would just advise avoiding anything which promises quick and easy progress. Find something used widely in college courses. Buy the accompanying audio and drill materials as well. As you work your way through the lessons, every now and then go back a few lessons and review it and redo the drills. One great thing this does besides reinforcing what you've learned is to make you realize that what was killing you a few days or weeks before now seems like child play....and someday what is killing you now will similarly seem easy. It provides the encouragement that comes with seeing progress, which is otherwise sometimes very hard to see while you're learning.

 

[nihon]

I'm just getting started with Japanese, but having learned Russian, what worked for me was learning the patterns of the language, and not worrying so much about rules. You make mistakes that way, because you gloss over some of the exceptions, but you pick up the exceptions over time...just the way kids do.

 

[Subculture]

I have tried Rosseta Stone but it was the worst learning experience ever

Don't waste your money on a class honestly you don't need it. If you're serious about learning Japanese though unlike learning french or a similar language to English an hour a day isn't going to cut it unless you don't mind waiting 15 years till you can read a manga without looking up every word. Also about learning it in the way you stated I can honestly tell you if you do that it'll look like it's come straight out of google translate and you should know how screwed up that is.

too old this way is almost impossible to learn a language

Never ever believe that. You might as well kill yourself at 21 if you think it's true. Plenty of people over 30 have learned a 2nd language to native level. However think about about it from an adult point of view kids learn a language yes. They learn it extremely slow. I believe it takes Japanese students 12 years of schooling to learn the 2000 commonly used Kanji. Khatzumoto learned this in about 18 months and I don't believe many people that have Japanese as a 2nd language takes 12 years to learn them.

If you use a program like Anki to learn the 2000 kanji and add 15 new kanji a day and continue to review them daily you will know them all within 133 days.

 

[NihonLover]

Don't waste your money on a class honestly you don't need it. If you're serious about learning Japanese though unlike learning french or a similar language to English an hour a day isn't going to cut it unless you don't mind waiting 15 years till you can read a manga without looking up every word. Also about learning it in the way you stated I can honestly tell you if you do that it'll look like it's come straight out of google translate and you should know how screwed up that is.

Never ever believe that. You might as well kill yourself at 21 if you think it's true. Plenty of people over 30 have learned a 2nd language to native level. However think about about it from an adult point of view kids learn a language yes. They learn it extremely slow. I believe it takes Japanese students 12 years of schooling to learn the 2000 commonly used Kanji. Khatzumoto learned this in about 18 months and I don't believe many people that have Japanese as a 2nd language takes 12 years to learn them.

If you use a program like Anki to learn the 2000 kanji and add 15 new kanji a day and continue to review them daily you will know them all within 133 days.

All true, I totally agree. Unfortunately it takes time and not everyone has that, however, if you really wanna learn Japanese, you will. 信じて！I myself know only a few words, I have just begun studying on it by myself. There is one thing I can say though, a class may not be as "useless" as you make it sound. Through classes one may get a few of the basics and, more importantly, practice. I sure as hell wish I had someone to talk to in Japanese so that I may practice my oral skills, even if just via Skype. Beginning alone the most difficult thing is to get the basics right, there's a lot of confusing information out there, plus the language can't actually be called an easy one. That said, never despair, one can still learn in many other ways. I watch as many anime as possible and use great apps that I have found and which have made it so much easier to grasp the grammar and they have started me off to the Kanji. If you want I can tell which I have found most useful, again, there's a lot of stuff out there!

 

[Subculture]

I sure as hell wish I had someone to talk to in Japanese so that I may practice my oral skills, even if just via Skype.

There is a website called Lang 8 if you go there correct Japanese people's English and they correct your Japanese however they usually add you as a friend and want to talk on skype to improve their English and in turn you can talk to them in Japanese perfect equivalent exchange.