Canada for my son?

[Revenant]

I wasn't sure where to put this, as it's not exactly Japan related, but I'd like serious input on this.

Situation
- Married but getting divorced someday.
- Still married to give my son a chance at living in Canada. My wife would need a Permanent Residential Visa to live and work in Canada, and the only feasible way of getting one is applying for one as my spouse.
- She would never agree to my taking him to live in Canada.
- She would probably have to work as a waitress or something in Canada.
- I have to pay back her parents a lot of money. Mostly debt accrued while I spent three weeks in the hospital a few times.
- I most likely wouldn't be able to pay back her parents from Canada
- My son's English isn't that good.

So the options are:

A. I send them to Canada in a year and a half, while I work to pay back her parents and support them financially from Japan. The debt will probably take four or five years to pay back. However my son doesn't speak English well, so at least the first year would likely be lonely and stressful for him. He would however become proficient at English as time went by, and he'd eventually find friends.

B. We wait till we've paid back her parents and then move back to Canada together. He'd be about 17 at the time though, not much time to learn English well or experience the Canadian culture. He'd also have difficulty leaving close friends he had made in junior high and high school.

C. We send him to Canada one month every year. It would be very limited in opportunities to learn English or getting an actual feel for the Canadian culture.

I think at least becoming very proficient at learning English would be an asset for him. He'd be able to go to Canadian universities, or get a better job here as a businessman here, or just become a plain old English teacher, which is better than the University graduates here who can only find jobs at convenience stores. I think that after the initial stress that my son would enjoy life in Canada.

My wife wants to wait till we can move as a family so my son has my support in Canada.

Of course we're not agreeing on this well at all, and we've hit an impasse, so I was hoping for the carefully considered viewpoints of others here.

 

[Mars Man]

Revenant san !! Right off the top of my head, I can imagine a number of possible factors which would surely have impact on any decision, which are not in the above options. However, as is, I'd tend to favor letting things unfold here, a little longer.

My elder son was terrible at English at the time that he had graduated from HS. Now, with work experience at SoftBank in Machida (Kanagawa), and having kept contact with my cousin who is in Germany, his English is quite good. I almost never need to explain anything in Japanese to him, and use English naturally with him.

If there were any way you could work with him here and now, that would be good. As far as the loan, yes, by all means do pay that off in a timely manner--saving face with the family. Looks like a tough road, but tis life. What kind of thoughts does your son have? (of course, he's probably too young to be able to consider it seriously.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Just a thought, but if your wife only speaks Japanese to your son at home, he won't improve his English as fast as if you were in Canada with them. Also, the inevitable culture shock is going to be worse for them if you're not there to help them.

You may want to consider looking for a good marriage counselor, before pulling the plug on a relationship that has probably occupied a good part of your life.

 

[Revenant]

What are the other unlisted possible factors that come to mind Mars Man? Dunno, what I'd really like for my son is the ability to easily switch between both languages, almost like he's a native English speaker. I think the advantages would provide him with many opportunities, seeing as he's a lot like me and quite on the laidback side (meaning he'd feel little motivation to speak English if he rarely needed it). In a lot of ways, I've just let things go as they were, and nothing that I've wanted has gotten done, I don't know that I want to wait for things to just happen.

In Canada, given enough time (one or two years), he'd probably stop speaking Japanese altogether and while understanding Japanese very well, make his replies in English. That part I'm not too worried about.

I'd go for a marriage counselor, except I'm sure a marriage counselor wouldn't take me seriously, seeing as not even docs who should take me seriously just don't. Add to that that there aren't any marriage counselors that speak both English and Japanese well around here, well I just don't see it going well at all. In a lot of ways, my medical conditions (not medically recognized yet) and my situation have made me very much a loner here, and I've learned that I can depend on no one really. I suppose that's not good, but then again I'm always doubting my thought processes, knowing that I might be just a little fuct up, and that there might be a better way for my son.

 

[abdalrasyid]

if i can contribute, IMO you shouldnt leave your son, and if you want to move on, you should bring all the members of your family with you. Because in his age, he need a figure, especially if he is a boy, he need a father figure. Second, you can chop the language problem by exercising english language with your son everyday, begining from the very simple words, and make your wife cooperate with you for doing so. Applying english language as the only language that being use inside your house. There are many Indonesia born chinese applying the exact method resulting their childern grow to master two language naturaly, Indonesian and Chinese, mostly Hokkian.

I hope it can help. Good luck.

 

[Mars Man]

What are the other unlisted possible factors that come to mind Mars Man?

The first one that comes to mind is family solidarity. In that it could be said--as I take it, based solely on that information you have provided above--that there is no plan for both biological parents' presence in the long run (say, after either the loan is paid back, or your ex-wife-to-be will have gotten permanent residency (or the likes), there will no longer be a 'family unit' from some future point in time. That should probably be figured in, I'd tend to think.

Another 'off-the-top-of-the-head' one is that since the area of agreement of thought between you two biological parents appears to at an impasse, 'none of the above' quite exactly appears to be the situation.

BUT, Revenant san, if I were in your shoes, and were very serious about the matter of ascertaining the experience of at least living in Canada (father's cultural roots) for awhile, I'd choose plan B, and start on the matter of English exposure now. I would keep in mind that I could not hold any great expectations about how the son would feel about that at the time the loan will have been paid off (but usually that age will be kind of willing to take adventure...personality trait depending, of course). What he thinks would have to be included in any future decision, as well, I'd argue.

I'd go for a marriage counselor, except I'm sure a marriage counselor wouldn't take me seriously, ...

Right. I would not give much credit to marriage counseling here in Japan either. One may be able to find that occasional well studied and up to date person doing the counseling, but most would probably not come nearly close enough to offer pragmatic advice free of cultural demands on socializing activity in a narrow scope, rather than universally.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

How important is it that you pay off the debt to your in-laws, and what are your reasons for wishing to do so? I ask, because it seems to me that the situation would be a whole lot simpler if it weren't for the debt.

 

[Revenant]

The presence of both parents is a sticky one as well in the future. My medical condition isn't bad now, but as the years go by, the spin off medical conditions will snowball. I think I'd b better off in Canada where I can communicate well with the doctors, and also be closer to high end medical clinics like Mayo. I plan on staying in Canada once I move back.

My son will have the the choice of living in either country, but will have to choose either Japanese or Canadian citizenship when he turns 18 (or was it 20?). If he feels Japan is just easier to get around in, he'd probably opt for living in Japan, which is part of the reason I'd like him to have a lot of time to learn English well and get comfortable with Canadian life, it'd increase the chances that he'd live in Canada.

My wife has said she'll probably live wherever my son chooses to live.

As to the money I owe. It may or may not be important to pay them back soon. My father-in-law will retire soon, and if he has some sort of relapse with cancer (he had an intestinal tumor removed two years ago), then they may need whatever money they can get to help pay for medical treatment.

I could go to Canada and then come back to Japan later to pay them back (my earning potential in Canada is about half that of Japan), but it'll be harder to find work without a university degree, and as an older teacher (I've hear a few older teachers complain that students are hard to find, that most housewives and office ladies that make up a large percentage of students here prefer younger teachers).

 

[Mars Man]

I see. The very first, and far most important (at the moment of communicating here) thing I'd like to present, is my appreciation of your candidness here. A very personal and real drama is at hand and you are presenting, and handling it in a mature and honest manner. THAT, has a lot to say in, and of, itself !!

As the cards are played, and the hands dealt out, it very much appears that you are playing to return to Canada regardless--at least at the moment. As I recall from posts and discussions around the BBQ pit (on one cold early, early morning) of days gone by, much of your course of action has been for the sake of your son; for the better part. That echo is still ringing--which is of course fine.

I have come up with some sort of hand that just might be a good bet, but before I start putting chips in the pot, I would like to ask if you happen to know what kind of game plan your other ... OK, not half, and we can never know of any better... so, legally-married-to-woman is holding out for? (it seems that had been kind of missing in the OP)

 

[Mike Cash]

I have been debating weighing in on this. If I do, it will be my usual judgmental, opinionated, blunt take on things. I don't think you'll like hearing it and no matter how dispassionately I phrase it I will come off sounding like an old-fashioned hardline pr*ck. So with that being said up front, let me know if you want to hear it or not. If you don't....no hard feelings. If you do, then I'm going to take it as license to say exactly what I think, no holds barred (and no doubt containing some things which are inappropriate or inaccurate due to an incomplete knowledge of your precise circumstances).

 

[Revenant]

Her plan is to prepare for Canada, hire tutors and stuff to get his English skills in subjects like Math better, pay back her parents all the money we owe them, then save up money to get us to Canada. What I'm not liking about this plan is it is highly dependent on how fast we can pay back her parents. If I land myself in the hospital once or twice, one of jobs dries up (as one will be next March), or she just loses her job and can't find another, partly in due to her being picky about them (took her a year and a half to find the job that she'll be starting at in January), then it could be five years or just plain old never. At that age, he'll have grown deep roots here in Japan, and no matter how hard we try to get his English up there (he's already incredibly busy with basketball, cram schools, and other odds and end stuff), it'll never be enough that he'd feel confident living in Canada. After that, we have no plans. I think she's just trying to keep us as a family unit for my son's sake.

Go for it Mike, I'm no stranger to terseness on the net. I'll fill you in on any misconceptions.

 

[Mars Man]

Thanks for getting back timely there, Revenant san. That gets things a little clearer from the other perspective, in a way.

If we were to hold it to be that the greater interest, and focus of purpose were your son, then we could reason that it would not matter quite that much whether it were Canada, Japan, Australia, or India. OK, I admit, India's a bit too much...I'll withdraw that one...hee, hee, hee. I believe you get the point, though.

If we were to hold it to be that the greater interest and focus of purpose were yourself, then we could reason that it would not matter quite that much whether your son were to go to Canada, or not.

The OP starts out with the reminder of a 'divorce' which has seemingly been at the playing table for some 2.5 years now. I have been 'divorced' from my wife for some 23 years now. Oh...I mean my first wife (I love getting married; and would love to do it another 5 or 6 times before kicking any buckets...hee, hee, hee). Point is, it could have been sharp and complete, yet since it has not, there is probably no material reason to consider that in your plans.

However, therefore, if all three of you agree that you all three would like to live, in whatever circumstance, in Canada, I'd still say take plan B. Live on natto, rice, and soy bean milk, work 12 hour days, 7 days a week....no wait....that sounds too Japaneseish...ok, work hard enough to pay back her folks (and I say you REALLY have to do that) in 3 years (about the length of time to pay back a car loan), and then do it.

I do wish you the best !! I am cheering for the best possible win-win situation. However I would strongly suggest a sharp, determined, and complete choice of action being made, and following up on it being done.

 

[Mike Cash]

It strikes me that "the best interests of my son" is really "the best interests of myself" packaged in a way that you find more palatable to yourself and is a self-delusional ruse. Through all the smoke screen about English ability and the like I see the silhouette of a self-centered, discontented, and irresponsible man.

You came here. You married here. You made a family here.

The problem with so many foreign husbands in Japan is that they come here and embark on that course without ever seriously considering that circumstances may require them to make the commitment of remaining here and raising their families here. The default mode is one of playing around having their nice little Japan adventure and making some easy money pretending to teach English to people who are pretending to learn it for a few years, but always planning to return to their home country before their career potential in "the world" is harmed by too long a delay in getting started.

But things go along pleasantly....they get married....they have a kid or two. All is cute-n-fun while the kids are little-bitty but as the children start to approach school age and one regards them more in the light of humans than adorable human-shaped pets the father almost invariably feels a strong urge to get them the hell out of Japan and to his home country and all the supposed benefits thereof. Fear of the unknown probably plays into it. After all, we have no experience of having been educated in Japan at that level and feel more comfortable having them go through the same environment we went through.

The urge to leave Japan born of a realization that one is not getting any younger typically hits men sometime around the age of 30~35....so you're due for that particular milestone. Unfortunately, the urge to leave born of a desire to somehow "rescue" one's children from the horrible fate of growing up comfortably acclimated to living in Japan tends to hit at right about the same time and each feeds off the other.

The situation is often made worse by the fact that most Western foreigners, especially those in the Eikaiwa racket, never quite get around to learning enough Japanese to even take care of themselves, much less assimilate. And the older one gets and the longer one lets that slide, the greater a factor it gets to be in growing discontentment with Japan and the more dismal becomes the prospect of further extending one's stay. Facing one's own mortality is gloomy enough under any circumstances. Facing it with the prospect of being "stuck" in an environment where one kept putting off making the effort to be able to operate on anything other than the margins is a very depressing proposition. The natural thing is to want to flee to the comfort zone of one's birth country and native language. That is a luxury a married man and a father cannot always afford to indulge in.

I don't know the source of the discontent with your wife. It may be something entirely reasonable. Or it may have at least partial origins in resentment toward her for your being "trapped" here and a subconscious resentment for her having to take care of many things for you that one typically expects a full-grown man to be able to take care of himself, primarily language-based things. It could be a sense of having been sold a bill of goods regarding the popular stereotype of the wonders of having a Japanese wife. Or maybe she's just a total raging *****. It doesn't really matter and it is none of my business.

You made a child with her. Unless you can't go to sleep at night for fear she's going to slit your throat while you sleep and unless she is psychologically unfit to be a mother you have an obligation to be a MAN and make whatever effort it takes to at least be civil enough to each other to remain together and raise the child. I don't give a damn if you love each other or not, nor does your personal contentment, fulfillment or happiness matter in the slightest. It is not in your child's best interests to be yanked out of his environment by the roots, be forced to learn another language, and have his mother and father split up his home. Far better would be for his father to put in the work required to get himself up to speed living in Japan and realize that when he got married and made a child one of the risks he took was that he had just entered into the "Immigrant" category with all that entails. YOU put in the work learning the language. YOU put in the effort to get along peacefully with his mother, happily or not. YOU realize that millions of kids grow up and live happy fulfilling lives in Japan despite being somehow "handicapped" by not knowing English; it isn't the end of the world.

Above all, realize that there is something in the world more important than yourself. You have presented the problem as though you are operating from that premise, but all the underlying factors point in precisely the opposite direction. I can't tell you how disheartening it was to read your totally dismissive comment, "I think she's just trying to keep us as a family unit for my son's sake." SHE gets it. I fear you never will.

 

[Mars Man]

If I may be allowed one side comment here:

The default mode is one of playing around . . . but always planning to return to their home country . . .

This kind of reminded me of one event. From 2001 to 2007 I gave an annual talk on Internationalism at an on-going education program for senior citizens, sponsored by Nagano Prefecture . At the end of each talk (which was about a 100 minute thing) I left some space for questions--which almost never came, anyway--however one interesting question did come one time. One man (and the average age was around 65 (give or take a couple of years) asked me if I intended to stay in Japan all my life. I responded using a kind of Japanese idiom saying, 'yes, my bones will be in Japanese soil.' I received what amounted to kind of close to a standing ovation. It is understandable.

(Of course, now some folks (one or two houses...so to speak) in the neighborhood where I live probably wish I would leave...hee, hee, hee. I have taken some, let's call it 'political activist-like' action in the past year...such as pushing for separation of religious belief system activities and city office administrative functions.)

 

[Revenant]

Always appreciate very frank but not in any intentionally nasty way feedback.

Sounds like old school thinking, remain together no matter what I mean...

I've thought about all that, and I have no doubt we could get by without harming each other, I've read that some couples do that well, and others simply put their kids through a whole lot of tension.

Here it is dishonesty and almost a complete disregard for anything I want that just gets to me at times. Sure I'd love to say I could be the ever stoic for the sake of my son kind a guy, honestly I can't pull that facade all the time though, and I know that from experience.

She's given up on this as well (she has never been able to trust me since a night I went out drinking long long ago), and yes, she'd at least get along with me as in I'm a roommate that she's got to put up with, and that would be for my son's sake. She wouldn't work at all at actually doing anything to make our relationship smoother. She doesn't do housework, she doesn't work, she's not about to be honest about things important to me, and about the only thing she does a very good job at is taking care of my son.

None of that is saying I'm disregarding all you have said, and I think it's fair to characterize me as discontent and in many ways irresponsible. I'm just saying that I don't think I could stay married to her forever, and unless things change around here, I absolutely intend on divorcing someday, when that is I have not yet decided.

I should fill in a bit more on my medical condition, and the medical system here as well, it will help you understand why it's not just that I can't communicate well with the docs here. First both conditions I have are rare, one is medically recognized, the other is not a medically diagnosable condition yet. I could go into personal experience here, but it's enough to know that the system here has the average Japanese doctor at least ten years behind current findings, and due to trying to keep things standardized, the technology is middling. So with hopes of at least delaying the day I must have my legs amputated or I die, I'll be moving back to Canada.

I'm also very aware that were my son to grow up in Japan, he'd probably live a comfortable existence (well I'd hope anyways, not sure what it would be like being something like unemployed here), but we both agree living in Canada would present my son, who is like me, really on the laidback side (he's not likely to work hard academically or in any other pursuit), a lot more opportunities for employment, and better employment at that.

Just for the record, we met in Canada, we got married because she was pregnant and wanted to deliver the child in Japan in case there were any complications, and there was no other way for me to live and work in Japan unless I got married. We've always had the idea of half the time spent in Japan and the other half in Canada.

So in short, these things aren't at all likely to change:
- Divorce (when not yet decided)
- Myself moving back to Canada

 

[let`s talk]

OP, it looks like your relationship with your wife is already in the poo and she knows that. It explains why she is not in a big hurry to move to Canada where you eventually divorce her. I wouldn't worry much about your son's being in Canada because kids are more flexible in catching new environment, languages including. But somehow I feel you are both selfish. She is selfish because staying married to you in Japan with a kid gives her a green ticket not to work at all and live comfortable, more or less. For you taking a kid to Canada gives you a chance not to lose him completely. And honestly speaking, you both should be less selfish and puts the kid's interest as a priority. For a start, ask him what he wants.

 

[Navy Guy]

Hmmm.. well here is my 2 cents. Rev, you need to think of what is best for you and then family. Getting a divorce while still in Japan and you moving to Canada may be for the best, especially since your medical care should be a primary concern... basically if you relapse and die what good is that going to be for anyone? This would also force your estranged wife into keeping her job. Your earning potential in Japan as an English teacher is going to steadily decrease so why not go back to Canada now and at least start to establish yourself there. You can still support your son and pay your debt from there.

I believe that Mike has a very valid point about your situation of the "romaticized" Japan and now you are looking at the not so very "story book" side where you are middle aged (I'm 37) you have to actually earn a living and what would have been an easy break if you lived in Canada is now a problem. Especially since you won't be staying in country.

What ever happened on your night out a "long long time ago" must not have been just a simple thing if she is still holding a grudge or, more likely, she has not ever really been in love with you; you both fell for the "foreigner" and things got out of hand when she got pregnant. Now your reaping what you sowed, litteraly. I personally think a child is not a reason to get married, don't get me wrong a father needs to be responsible for his children but sometimes the best thing is to be supportive from afar. This is one reason my wife and I dated for three years and waited another year and a half before having kids that way we were sure that our two cultures would be able to "get along".

Your son will pick which ever country he finds more comfortable once he reaches 20, I face that with my two kids . Reality is it's their choice and no matter what you do they are going to do what they want. I am not sure how old your son is (did I miss it?) but language comes easy to kids, why are you not teaching him? My wife teaches our kids Japanese and I teach them English that way they can speak both fluently. Unless your wife forbid you from teaching him English you should already have been doing this.... and if she did all the more reason to get out NOW.

All in all I see your best option is to divorce her now and move to Canada, break off your gangrenous relationship while you are somewhat healthy and do not have to rely on her to take care of you.
Establish a new life and get the medical treatment you need so you can support your son. If you wait your just going to make things worse.
If you worry about him learning English then start teaching him now and enroll him into Kumon (or some other class), they are everywhere and can be affordable.
Finally get on with your life.... you sound like a caged tiger that can't find his way out the open door because he is too comfortable in his current situation.
Thats my 2 cents take it or leave it....

 

[Revenant]

Well, lots of different viewpoints on this, and I appreciate all feedback, so long as it's well considered feedback. I understand I'm not the kind of guy who should be trusting my own judgement completely, as I've been told I'm not great at figuring out or connecting with other people, seeing as I might be quite different (somewhat cold due to my very early childhood of neglect till I was five, and I've definitely read the studies on the effects of trust, connection, etc that colors a child's entire life due to the first three years of their lives, look up the orphanages in Romania that resulted from Romania's three child policy during communism just to get an idea of that if you're interested). I take a very ambiguous outlook on life, thinking that this may be both good and bad, I believe I see things more objectively than the happier black and white thinking conservatives.

Just to answer here, we've asked my son what he thinks about this or that situation, and he's always replied he doesn't know what he thinks of it. And I agree, it is perhaps both natural and perhaps selfish to want one's children easily accessible. I also think it's natural to want to give your child a head start in life. Were he great at something here, I might just forgo trying to get him to Canada in favor of him doing very well at whatever he did well at here.

I should clarify that my legs getting amputated or my dying would most likely come about a decade or more after my son became an adult, he is eleven now. So with that in mind, I do intend on moving back to Canada sometime, but when hasn't been decided yet.

I have never really had a romanticized image of Japan. I've thought that it's a fascinating culture with all it's differences in things that are both a pro and a con, like the idea of 'wa'.

I'll be honest here, what happened three months after I moved to Japan is I went out drinking with co-workers and almost slept with a girl (had stuff played out a little differently, that would've been 'I slept with another girl'), long story short, I was lost and had to call my wife, being in the part of town I was, completely residential, kind of gave it away that I had gone to another girl's house. She's never trusted me since.

I do agree that a kid is not a good reason to get married now, however being a Christian at the time, and at least thinking I should try to follow Christian code even if I was failing half the time, I thought it my duty to marry her and take care of my son. Actually I don't know how I feel about supporting from afar, in some ways it would feel strange knowing you had your own flesh and blood that you really didn't know.

I've tried to teach my son, but in the past few years, after basketball, homework, and extra homework provided by a private company here, I sort of feel sorry when I'm like, okay!, let's do some English! Like I'm cutting into the little free time he has (part of that due to my son getting through homework or extra exercises very slowly due to a lot of zoning out). I have no doubt he'd pick up English easily were he in Canada, and that's part of the reason I want him to live there.

In all actuality,being that I don't have a university degree, I could probably make more living in Japan indefinitely than Canada. I have little problem being on the fringe of society, since that's pretty much where I've always been anyways. Were it not for my son or my medical condition, well Japan is just as comfortable to me as Canada.

Really, I'm not comfortable in my current situation, just too ambiguous to jet when other people would've. At the time my wife had an Aussie boyfriend and was seriously considering stuff like moving to part of Japan he was in, then getting angry at me and telling me to get out of the house because I had a girlfriend I dated later on after they had broken up. Well, I moved out, but I didn't get divorced only to give my son the option of living in Canada. Moving back in on my part was also on my part completely about keeping options open, since she was considering moving to Canada with my son but vacillating a lot, and also cause I felt very sorry for my son (when I moved out, my wife and my son went to Tokyo, and more specifically Tokyo Tower , my son said he wished I was there, last February, we all ahd to go to Tokyo for my Sister-in-law's wedding. My wife and I had a disagreement, and I said I wouldn't go to Tokyo Tower with them, well my son was quite obviously holding in a lot of sadness, so I went, and said I'd move back in with them again). Well it's a lot of the same of old same old, distrust, blaming, etc.

What I'm feeling at the moment, and judge me as some ******* if you will, is if I get the good paying job next March, I'll be able to pay everything off in three years or so and then move back with them, but if I don't get that job, then I'll put a lot of pressure on my wife to get him there and support them from Japan.

 

[Ashikaga]

It's cruel to ask an 11 year old boy what he wants to do in a situation like yours.

If you believe being there for your son (physically) is important, just get a divorce and move out now but stay close by, and stay in Japan until your son is an adult. Staying with your wife for your son's sake will do no good as he WILL sense the tension between you two, and eventually know you were living together just for him although you couldn't stand each other. That's a burden he would not want.

Then, there's your health. If going back to Canada will give you better treatments, making you healthier and letting you live longer, then go. Imagine your son finding out down the line that you stayed in Japan for him, and doing so prevented you from receiving the medical care you needed. Not good.

The fact you two come from different backgrounds/cultures/countries is irrelevant. The story is not that special. You met, produced a child, got married, and it didn't work out.
Neither of you are willing to sacrifice your personal happiness for your son, so do what makes you happy first, THEN, try to figure out where your son would fit in.

Be the bad guy(s). Sure, your son may resent you for the choices you will make for yourselves and for him now, but I think that 's better than burden him with the sense of guilt.

It may sound cruel but this is the card your son has been dealt. He will have to find a way to cope with it. Many kids do including three in my own family. The least you can do is to keep it as simple as possible for him. His parents splitting up is hard enough for a young child to make sense of. Moving to another country together where he has to start everything from scratch knowing his parents don't love eachother? Wouldn't that make him feel even more confused? I say let him at least keep a shred of the reality he knows now by letting him stay where he has been for 11 years.

Forget about him learning English. That's not important. If he wants to, he will. If he doesn't, so be it.

If everything works out, your son will have a happy, healthy father in Canada who loves him very much, and a happy mother by his side who encourages him to keep his bond with his dad strong.

 

[abdalrasyid]

I think Ashikaga have a wise opinion here, after i read your setence about your wife with the "ausie" bf, it blow up all the possibility to keep the family as one, because the very basic foundation of family it seem colapsing : trust and respecting each member. It sad me, reading your post and your condition, and i cant judge you Rev, because i still dont clearly know your situation you are the one who know the best of your current condition, how can im judging something that im not sure about it? And i will not giving you another wieght because you already have enough.

But if im at your shoes, i will divorce her, like Mencius said, dont stand infront of the broken wall, when it colapse, it will hit you. Even moving to canada seem not the ideal condition for your son, but if it risk your own life then you move for the best option. And i like the latest sentence that Ashikaga put :

"If everything works out, your son will have a happy, healthy father in Canada who loves him very much, and a happy mother by his side who encourages him to keep his bond with his dad strong."

seem like an option that worth to try. And still there possibility things will be improve in the future, but first you must put your health in priority, not only for yourself, but for your family. Your responsibility as a father is still needed. You need to survive.

And your action by asking your 11 year son his opinion in this situation, I consider it as wise decision, may be it seems heavy for him but it will be heavier if he sense something awful happen without knowing what exactly at the first place and I bet he already sense it. It will be cause feeling unsavety, anxiety, and in the future distrust.

Openness in certain manners and "proportion" are needed in family, truth not always appear as a sweet sugar candy, but it will build trust, and trust is a very basic in any relation, crucialy in a family relation. In addition by doing that, your son know that he is part of your family and his opinion are important and value. But adjust the proportion, as you know your son character more then any of us, if you already do it carefully and do your best, then you must know, the best you can is good enough.

And yes, if he want to learn english, teach him, it will be useful for him. And he will grow up live with it and he will remember that his father the one who teach him the language.

But you will see more pro and contra in this thread, it will, but life is a choice and a responsible that being carries individualy, read all the option and choose only the best because the one who will carry that weight is no one else but you. If you have christian map with you, then follow the guide directly from the bible and do as it told. Its lots better then living a life without any map, guidance or direction.

 

[Navy Guy]

WOW ... that was a bomb! If you two are already seeing other people then your done. I agree with Ashikaga. One of you has to be the "adult" in this situation and end it before you do more psychological damage to your son.
... here comes my years of psych work ...
1: by keeping this sham of a relationship going your son is going to grow up thinking that this is "normal" for a relationship; in other words he will repeat what he see's. Do you want that for him? Instead break it off but still be supportive.
2: You are confused by what YOU want my friend. On one hand you know that better medical attention can be had in Canada where you will live a healthier life. But on the other you want to stay in Japan where you can be closer to your son and "make better money".... You are only staying in Japan because your hoping to salvage your relationship with your estranged wife... sounds strange but think about it. Why would you continue an abusive relationship with someone who shows you no love or support in retun? Also your affraid that if you do leave she will disapear with your son.
You need to come to the reality that it is over, for better or worse, and move on. You are both already dating other people right? Take the next step.
3: Trust... neither of you have it for each other so why would stay together. There are way to many case studies that show the downfall of couples staying together when it makes for a hostile growth environment for children. Most of these children later grow up to despise their parents and not trust them. It also leads them to distrust their future relationships. If you two can not come to a mutual agreement to play nice around eachother then you need to seperate ASAP.
4: Guilt: you seem to have a lot of it and for no reason. You didn't sleep with the girl (as you stated) if anything your wife should have been happy that you left and that you trusted her enough to help you get home safely. It was a bad situation but in the end you made the right choice by not following through.
For some reason you feel that your leaving to go back home to Canada would be abandonment of your son... the only reason it would be is if you stopped communicating and supporting him; don't you think the guilt he will feel about you staying in a bad situation and the fact that you didn't get medical help when it was available would be worse for him later? He may actually hate you for it later. There are a lot of divorced couples in this world who live across the world or just across town from each other, in this modern age distance is easier to cross.
Again this is my 2 cents take it as advice nothing else... but consider the pros and the cons of your situation. Your first priority should be YOU, as selfish as that seems, but think about what others in this forum have said. Rev in the end if your not happy AND healthy then how can you expect your son to be.

 

[noyhauser]

Well I don't want to come off as being scolding or the like... partly because you've come here asking for help in a difficult problem.

About your son's future: You're the parent so ultimately you have to make a decision about what is good for him. I don't think there is anything wrong about asking him what he wants though... It would be crass not to ask him at his age.

Its not an easy decision either. I'll just focus on the education side. If he's eleven he's got all of the best parts of Japanese education; he's approximately one or two years advanced from his North American contemporaries in schooling on math and sciences... however that gap closes in the following years. He will also have better work ethic than his contemporaries. I would submit that if he's a good student now, then it might be worthwhile to bring him to Canada. His opportunity to get into college will be that much better.

Socially however it will be difficult for him to move... he's going to face major hardship trying to adjust to a new culture that is very different. My brother faced this and he's better for it, but I can't say it was easy for him.

I think its important to know where in Canada he might be moving to. If he's going to Vancouver or Toronto, then his prospects for integration will be very good. Any smaller city that and he'll encounter more difficulty, which probably makes it less worth it.

Hope that helps.

 

[let`s talk]

I'll be honest here, what happened three months after I moved to Japan is I went out drinking with co-workers and almost slept with a girl (had stuff played out a little differently, that would've been 'I slept with another girl'), long story short, I was lost and had to call my wife, being in the part of town I was, completely residential, kind of gave it away that I had gone to another girl's house. She's never trusted me since.
I do agree that a kid is not a good reason to get married now, however being a Christian at the time, and at least thinking I should try to follow Christian code even if I was failing half the time, I thought it my duty to marry her and take care of my son.

Oh, please... let's not bring Jesus, Christians or any other religion in the sentence followed the paragraph with your slutting-around story.

 

[Navy Guy]

Socially however it will be difficult for him to move... he's going to face major hardship trying to adjust to a new culture that is very different. My brother faced this and he's better for it, but I can't say it was easy for him.
I think its important to know where in Canada he might be moving to. If he's going to Vancouver or Toronto, then his prospects for integration will be very good. Any smaller city that and he'll encounter more difficulty, which probably makes it less worth it.

I will disagree to a point about the moving being socially difficult. My 2 girls have faced moving every three years since they were born, I have a 10 and 13 yr old. I find that if you prepare the child for the move and not make it a negative thing then they assimilate into their new culture quickly. Being the "new kid" doesn't have to be a bad thing...
I will agree that moving to a larger rural area is easier for them to blend into especially if there are other children from the same demographic (culture).
Unfortunately I believe that Rev moving his kid from Japan to Canada may be a negative thing because his estranged wife will make it into just that.

 

[Revenant]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful input, I'll just respond to put a few more facts on the table.

First it is a low tension disagreement, we don't exactly trust each other, and we both have valid reasons for feeling as we do. We rarely yell at each other, but we often feel discontent with each other.

I was just reading a study that stated that parents that decided to stick together for the kids and were not violent or creating tense atmospheres generally felt more satisfied with their marriages five years down the road, now I don't know that that'll happen, and the way things are going now, I'd probably peacefully co-exist with her as in a roommate I didn't exactly see eye to eye with, punctuated with feeling lonely and occasional quiet fury. I've done it for quite a while, and I could do it a bit longer too under current circumstances.

A lot of the sites I've been reading keep reiterating that even in violent marriages, kids still feel uncertainty with divorce, which contrasts with my father's experience of divorce as a kid, when he was 12, he and his brother were just happy to see their father go, cause it meant there was no more yelling and screaming going on. But all of course agree that violent or especially hostile marriages should be ended quickly.

Anyways, it's not a hostile environment here, and we can still enjoy being a family so long as my son is around, and when he's not, well we can talk about just other small stuff, so long as we stay away from certain issues, it's generally all still civil.

I think I'll stick around so long as we don't have any major blow ups, and after we've payed off all the money we owe, then consider moving to Canada. For now, I'll just stick it out.

Just a quick note here, unless there's something I don't know about on her side, neither of us is seeing anyone else now, nor have either of us in the past two years. We had discussed getting divorce before seeing anyone, so it wasn't like it came as a shock when she told me she met a great Aussie guy.

After my son's older, and my debts paid off, I'll move to Canada for better medical care, and they can decide what they do and where they live.

I'll keep the option of them moving to Canada in the very near future by themselves, without divorce as a part of it, and they can decide whether they want to go or not, but of course with them knowing that I must stay in Japan for financial reasons, and also let them know I'll be coming to Canada just as soon as I can.

We're currently discussing where in Canada they would move were they to move there. She wants to move to Vancouver, and I think Vancouver's great! I love the place, but I thought in the beginning moving to Victoria after he finishes a year of school here in April and staying near my parents in Victoria at least for the first three or four months before he starts school in September would help him adjust cause he already feels comfortable with my parents.

I didn't sleep with that girl, true, but I think it was a definite possibility had things played out differently. I had been drinking all night, and being in a marriage that first I didn't actually plan on being in, and being treated as a bit like a stray dog made me want a girl to want me (as in it seemed she liked me a lot). I guess feeling lonely was a part of it too. Really dumb now that I think on it, but that was 11 years ago, and now I simply put it up to being young, dumb, and full of beer. I suppose it's not an unusual story.

I don't hope to salvage this relationship, in fact, I plan on divorcing, I was just undecided when and how to do it, but I think I'll stick it out a few more years for my son's sake.

And true, we don't trust each other, and I'd love to see a few of those case studies you referred to. I would get the idea it refers to a hostile environment, in which case, it's usually just minor flare ups over small stuff that quickly blows over. It's a quiet dissatisfaction for both of us.

Heck, just rereading the posts again now, and I'm wondering whether keeping a sham of a relationship might not actually be a good idea... I'll have to look into that. Well then, I'll listen if anyone else has input RELATED TO helping me decide, I don't care to hear stuff like what 'let's talk' posted as it's just moral disgust, which you are free to feel, but I would ask you take it somewhere else.