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What do you think about Arab people ??

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Can Someone Help me how to Add pictures to the Reply ?
I never Used a forum before !
I have some Pictures on my pc that i would like to add but I dont know how to put them here

Tnx
 
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Not positive , but I think................

after you have around 20 posts, you can then post pictures. We had trouble with new members joining and then posting "dirty/porn" pictures for their first post. Say hello to a few new members and maybe answer some of the poll posts and you should have 20 posts in no time.

Good Luck,

Uncle Frank

:?
 
after you have around 20 posts, you can then post pictures. We had trouble with new members joining and then posting "dirty/porn" pictures for their first post. Say hello to a few new members and maybe answer some of the poll posts and you should have 20 posts in no time.
Good Luck,
Uncle Frank
:?

I got it thank you
I guess I have to Act against my "Favorite Quote" then ! :p

I will respond to the Previous Post when I would be able to send pictures then
 
@ Hezam :
1-Not mentioning I didnt know your name when I was writing the question, As you might have Guessed I didnt have Any Intention to be Polite over such Arrogant Claim of someone who is questioning the unity of my Country , and I must add as long as you get your News From Seperatist websites like the one u gave me you would stay out of reality!
I dont Deny the existence of such movements but I have been to the Province and I have stayed for sometimes in Ahwaz and Khorramshahr and Saw the reality with my own eyes , plus The Reactions of Khuzistanis During the Saddam Invasion was a Clear sign of their will.

2- Iran is one the very Few Countires that still exist on its very Ancient Base , No Country in the Region can Claim they were or are "Occupied" by Iran while they are themseves Britian-Made Countries made in less than one or two century ago !

3- You obviously have a "Simple" Historical Background , too Simple that your Info in only Focused on the Era when the whole Iran was Occupied by Khalifas of Umavi and Abbasi , with that logic i wouldnt be surprised even if you would say the whole "Iran is Occupied by Iranians" becasue Arabs were ruling over them "once" ! Mongols , Macedonians and Greece can claim the same thing , but thats not the way of judging the owner of a land!

4- Its called Persian Gulf not Arabian gulf , even ur First Map shows the real name !

5- I Give you International Accepted Maps of the Iranian Lands from the very begining of Existance of Iranians , till nowdays , I leave the final Decision to you to tell me when was Khuzistan Occupied?probably 2700 years ago :

2700 yrs ago
a . Ancient Maads (ماد)
ghafghaz_map2_maad-1.jpg


2550 yrs ago
b. Achaemenian (هخامنشیان)


ghafghaz_map3_hakhamaneshi-1.jpg


2240 yrs ago
c. Ashkanian (اشکانیان )
ghafghaz_map4_ashkani-1.jpg


1760 yrs ago
d.Sasanian (ساسانیان) -- Before Arabs Invasion
ghafghaz_map5_sasani-1.jpg


1102 yrs ago
e. Samanian (سامانیان ) -- After Arabs Imvasion
ghafghaz_map6_samani-1.jpg


950 yrs ago
f. Saljooghian (سلجوقیان )
ghafghaz_map7_saljooghi-1.jpg


890 yrs ago
g. Kharazmshahian (خوارزمشاهیان ) -- Before Mongols Invasion
ghafghaz_map8kharazmshahian-1.jpg


770 yrs ago
h. Ilkhanan ( ایلخوانان ) -- After Mongols Invasion
ghafghaz_map9_ilkhanan-1.jpg


590 yrs ago
i. Teimoorian (تیموریان )
ghafghaz_map10_teimoorian-1.jpg


490 till 258 yrs ago
j. Safavian (صفویان )
ghafghaz_map12_safavian-1.jpg


258 till 199 yrs ago
k. Afsharieh ( افشاریه )
ghafghaz_map13_nadershah_afsharieh-1.jpg


199 yrs ago
l. Zandieh ( زندیه )
ghafghaz_map14_karimkhan_zandieh-1.jpg


70 yrs ago
m. Ghajar (قاجار )
ghafghaz_map15_ghajarian-1.jpg


Today
n. Current Iran (ایران )
iranmap1-1.jpg


As you witnessed Khuzistan Has Alwasy been a part of Iran , even if it was called something else!

I would like to conclue with this Interesting Dream Map of the separatists backed by western powers and Zionists to create Weak dependent Islamic Countries :
New_middle_east_graphic_2003-1.jpg


Is this what you are looking for ?
 
Colonel Hamed said:
@ Hezam :
Good of you to call people by their names.

Colonel Hamed said:
1-Not mentioning I didnt know your name when I was writing the question, As you might have Guessed I didnt have Any Intention to be Polite over such Arrogant Claim of someone who is questioning the unity of my Country , and I must add as long as you get your News From Seperatist websites like the one u gave me you would stay out of reality!
I dont Deny the existence of such movements but I have been to the Province and I have stayed for sometimes in Ahwaz and Khorramshahr and Saw the reality with my own eyes , plus The Reactions of Khuzistanis During the Saddam Invasion was a Clear sign of their will.
- I posted what i know about Persia so no need to be mad at me and everyone may get a different info.
- My information is not from Seperatist websites,i qouted them from Wiki and what i studied.
- That link of Ahwaz is showing the Persecution of the Iranian religious Government toward Sunni Muslims in Ahwaz and Balochistan.

Colonel Hamed said:
2- Iran is one the very Few Countires that still exist on its very Ancient Base , No Country in the Region can Claim they were or are "Occupied" by Iran while they are themseves Britian-Made Countries made in less than one or two century ago !
Not true,Iran occupied a part of Kurdistan and Arabistan and Azerbaijan and Balochistan,You can go their and see with your own eyes.The people their are under Persecution,I don't know what you saw in Ahwaz but that doesn't deny the fact that they are Arab.

Colonel Hamed said:
3- You obviously have a "Simple" Historical Background , too Simple that your Info in only Focused on the Era when the whole Iran was Occupied by Khalifas of Umavi and Abbasi , with that logic i wouldnt be surprised even if you would say the whole "Iran is Occupied by Iranians" becasue Arabs were ruling over them "once" ! Mongols , Macedonians and Greece can claim the same thing , but thats not the way of judging the owner of a land!
Did i say Iran was Arab ? i know it's Conquered by Arab Caliphate and Ottoman Caliphate But i didn't say it was Arab,And in the other hand you can't say Ahwaz is Iranian because it was occupied by Persians,See the maps you posted,The Persian Empire occupied Egypt and the East part of AlJazeera but you did not call it Persian so why do you call Ahwaz persian ?
Persia was in the west and south Iran not all Iran.

Colonel Hamed said:
4- Its called Persian Gulf not Arabian gulf , even ur First Map shows the real name !
I don't know why you insist that it's persian while it's not our subject here !! OK Persian Arab it doesn't matter,But the reality is the west and East coasts are Arabic ( Arabistan,Iraq,Kuwait,Saudia,Qatar,Bahrain,UAE,Oman) and a small part in Perisan like in the last map witch is correct.
Colonel Hamed said:
5- I Give you International Accepted Maps of the Iranian Lands from the very begining of Existance of Iranians , till nowdays , I leave the final Decision to you to tell me when was Khuzistan Occupied?probably 2700 years ago :
What about the maps i posted ? they are based on a historical facts....!!
The maps you posted are showing the Persian occupation,Do you deny that ?

Colonel Hamed said:
As you witnessed Khuzistan Has Alwasy been a part of Iran , even if it was called something else!
It was a part of Iran by occupation but during the history It separated and ruled by it's own people.

Colonel Hamed said:
I would like to conclue with this Interesting Dream Map of the separatists backed by western powers and Zionists to create Weak dependent Islamic Countries :
I'm against separation but not with Persecution.

And thanks for the long post,I might miss alot of facts but there are things that i know for sure.
 
I Do not know how to Use "Multi-Quote" so I Answer your Post by Manual Quoting .

That link of Ahwaz is showing the Persecution of the Iranian religious Government toward Sunni Muslims in Ahwaz and Balochistan.

Any Country with Any system around the World Detains and Silences the Voices of Seperatists , The so Called Ahwazees you are mentioning are either members of those groups or people following such goals who are Fighting against the unity of the country , as it is Mentioned in our constitution No one in Iran Gets "Persecuted" for being Sunni , Christian , Jew , Zarotoshtian or any one else that is an "ahlol-ketab" .
Though I admit The Human rights Situation in Iran is no where near Perfect , but If you are really Worried about the rights of Arabs , there are a lot of worrying issues going on right at the country you are living in !


Iran occupied a part of Kurdistan and Arabistan and and Balochistan,You can go their and see with your own eyes.The people their are under Persecution,I don't know what you saw in Ahwaz but that doesn't deny the fact that they are Arab.

Have you ever been to Iran ?
Well I Have been To those Places and I actually Have Friedns right now , from Azerbaijan and Kurdistan And what you are assuming to be true has no place among the majority of the residentds of those provinces , though I admit the Issue of Kurds and Balochs is a bit more complicated becasue there are Armed Groups there Directly Backed from "well-Known" Sources for "well-known" reasons .
As you have seen in the maps I have shown you , Those Places were a part of Iran almost since the very Begining which means They cannot be called "Occupied" by any means
Maybe you are not aware that right now only 45% of Iran's Population are from the Persian Race , Others are Turks , Kurds , Lors , Mazanis , Gilaks , Arabs , Baluchs etc
These Races have been living together for centuries inside one Country ! So does that mean 45% of Iran Occupied the other 55% ? what kind of logic is that ??
the Arabs living in Khuzistan are Iranian Arabs and it has no Paradox , every Race is respected under a regime that is Based on Islamic Values not Racial Values
Did you know even the Supreme Leader of Iran at the moment is not Ethnicaly Persian?



Did i say Iran was Arab ? i know it's Conquered by Arab Caliphate and Ottoman Caliphate But i didn't say it was Arab,And in the other hand you can't say Ahwaz is Iranian because it was occupied by Persians,See the maps you posted,The Persian Empire occupied Egypt and the East part of AlJazeera but you did not call it Persian so why do you call Ahwaz persian ?
Persia was in the west and south Iran not all Iran.


First ; For the first part u can read my answer above again ,being Iranian does not mean being Persian ! So they can be Arab and Iranian toegther !
Second ; Iran was never "Conquered" by Ottoman Caliphates !!!? RE-check your Sources
Third ; The Persian empire took over Egypt at a time , but It was an Occupation becasue Egyptians were living there before Persians , and the land belongs to them
So The matter with Khuzistan is Quite Different , if you dont know why , U can check the maps again !
Fourth ; I did not Call Ahwaz "Persian" ! I think you do not read my posts Carefully , I called ahwaz "Iranian''



I don't know why you insist that it's persian while it's not our subject here !! OK Persian Arab it doesn't matter,But the reality is the west and East coasts are Arabic ( Arabistan,Iraq,Kuwait,Saudia,Qatar,Bahrain,UAE,Oma n) and a small part in Perisan like in the last map witch is correct.


Ofcourse I will Insist & I Talked with Many Arabs over this Issue , The Point is "Persian Gulf" is a name , and it doesnt neccesarily mean It belongs to Persian the Name is Persian gulf not the Gulf of Persians , notice the difference!
and by the way , Is red sea really read ? or is dead sea full of Corpses ??
would you Stop Calling me "Hamed" which means someoe who prays if I dont pray ?
No you wouldnt , becasue thats my name ! and Names are used to Recognise places , Persian gulf is on International Waters and it doesnt "belongs" to anyone , whatevr its name is
but the thing that Annoys us , is the Fact that the rich Arabs of the Persian Gulf are wasting millions to force international map makers to write the name they wish ! It is nothing out of Greed and Jealousy Which happens to be very common among Arab Princesses of the Region and you know that better than I do !


What about the maps i posted ? they are based on a historical facts....!!
The maps you posted are showing the Persian occupation,Do you deny that ?
It was a part of Iran by occupation but during the history It separated and ruled by it's own people.


Yea so the Maads Occupied Khuzistan 2700 years ago while there were no arab by that time , but the land belonged to Arabs anyway ! sorry that doesnt make sense to me !
And about the maps you posted :
one was about the Haroon Reign , which as you know the whole Iran was a part of their Goverment
and the other one was a Map of a Seperatist Rule which didnt last enough to be mentioned in The History, During the times between diferent Dynsaties in Iran's History there were Times of Chaos , that everyone on every Province would call himself a Ruler , they are not worthy to be mentioned , even the province I live in Mazandaran , called indepentant from Iran once in our history when Iran had no Specefic Leader
but you like to stare at those Maps and See them as the "history of Iran" ? Suit urself


I might miss alot of facts but there are things that i know for sure.

I Do Belive that You are Missing some Essential Facts on my country :
You must not Look at Iran through the narrow prism of racism , which is very common among Arabs , Iran is a land that had welcomed people from different races throughout the time and Insha'allah It will continue to do so !

Instead of Arguing with others over these issues that "this was ours ; that is ours" , try to fix your Differences between yourself and get united becasue Unfortunately Todays Arabs Sitution concerning their Leadership and unity is Shameful
while I wish I could have them as Friends and brothers of the same Religion than Rivals and enemies over a piece of land !

So ... Honestly If I get mad that Arabs are still greedy over others land when they cant properly control and rule the lands they already have I actually get mad for "Their Ignorance" rather than "My Nationalism"!!



Im Sorry if it got too Long but I had to say those , and I actully Summerized a lot of it
 
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hmmm....you answered my questions perfectly.
I mean i expected another answer,

Colonel Hamed said:
as it is Mentioned in our constitution No one in Iran Gets "Persecuted" for being Sunni , Christian , Jew , Zarotoshtian or any one else that is an "ahlol-ketab" .
As i know/hear Iran treats Christians/Jews/Zarotoshtian ..etc equally excepting Sunni !

Colonel Hamed said:
Have you ever been to Iran ?
No,that's why i asked you...

Colonel Hamed said:
Maybe you are not aware that right now only 45% of Iran's Population are from the Persian Race , Others are Turks , Kurds , Lors , Mazanis , Gilaks , Arabs , Baluchs etc
Yes i know.

Colonel Hamed said:
These Races have been living together for centuries inside one Country ! So does that mean 45% of Iran Occupied the other 55% ? what kind of logic is that ??
Yes but since the Safawi (Jafari shia) came to Iran everythings changed,right ?

Colonel Hamed said:
the Arabs living in Khuzistan are Iranian Arabs and it has no Paradox , every Race is respected under a regime that is Based on Islamic Values not Racial Values
Yea right.

Colonel Hamed said:
Did you know even the Supreme Leader of Iran at the moment is not Ethnicaly Persian?
Ahmadi Najad ? where did he come from ?

Colonel Hamed said:
Second ; Iran was never "Conquered" by Ottoman Caliphates !!!? RE-check your Sources
Sorry,that was not Ottoman,It was Umayyad/Abbasid.

No part of Iran occupied by Ottoman.

Colonel Hamed said:
So The matter with Khuzistan is Quite Different , if you dont know why , U can check the maps again !
Ahwaz is just like Kurdistan...

Colonel Hamed said:
Fourth ; I did not Call Ahwaz "Persian" ! I think you do not read my posts Carefully , I called ahwaz "Iranian''
Yeah i see...

Colonel Hamed said:
Ofcourse I will Insist & I Talked with Many Arabs over this Issue , The Point is "Persian Gulf" is a name , and it doesnt neccesarily mean It belongs to Persian the Name is Persian gulf not the Gulf of Persians , notice the difference!
and by the way , Is red sea really read ? or is dead sea full of Corpses ??
would you Stop Calling me "Hamed" which means someoe who prays if I dont pray ?
No you wouldnt , becasue thats my name ! and Names are used to Recognise places , Persian gulf is on International Waters and it doesnt "belongs" to anyone , whatevr its name is
but the thing that Annoys us , is the Fact that the rich Arabs of the Persian Gulf are wasting millions to force international map makers to write the name they wish ! It is nothing out of Greed and Jealousy Which happens to be very common among Arab Princesses of the Region and you know that better than I do !
This is a perfect answer...really thanks.

Colonel Hamed said:
Yea so the Maads Occupied Khuzistan 2700 years ago while there were no arab by that time , but the land belonged to Arabs anyway ! sorry that doesnt make sense to me !
huh? Arab exsists there even before 3000 years ago...please read about Arab history.

Colonel Hamed said:
I Do Belive that You are Missing some Essential Facts on my country, You must not Look at Iran through the narrow prism of racism , which is very common among Arabs , Iran is a land had welcomes people from different races throughout the time !
Yeah i need to know more about Iran and Persia...i will read about it.

Colonel Hamed said:
Sorry if it got too Long but I had to say those , and I actully Summerized a lot of it But please Read it :p
I read it,i like it and i didn't expect that answer :)

I have a question,even if it's off topic but i don't have another one to ask but you,
Are Iranian people Shia (jafari) ? What percentage of Shia in Iran ?

Thank you.
 
I gotta tell you something, Hezam. I got one of those mass mail letters from some senator's printer about the need for me and the millions others they sent the letters to support our "only" democratic ally in the Middle-East, allegedly Israel.

Which I found particularly interesting, consdering the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu would love for the USA to invade quite a few Islamic nations around them. Not to mention the fact that he has time after time damaged potential peace treaties with Israel's neighbors by acting like a total jerk.
 
I gotta tell you something, Hezam. I got one of those mass mail letters from some senator's printer about the need for me and the millions others they sent the letters to support our "only" democratic ally in the Middle-East, allegedly Israel.

Which I found particularly interesting, consdering the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu would love for the USA to invade quite a few Islamic nations around them. Not to mention the fact that he has time after time damaged potential peace treaties with Israel's neighbors by acting like a total jerk.
And i want to tell you that those extremists jews in Palestine don't care about America,All what they care about is to occupy more land,As i read in the news,The American Jews started moving their money to china because of the bad western economy...after all they follow their interests.
My advice to the western people especially the americans,Don't let anyone whoever to use you and your country like a toy for their own interests.
Invading that Islamic country will be a third world war,That Islamic country will destroy the Oil pumps in Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/UAE so the damage will be more than what theu imagine.
And WTH with that Netanyahu he is treating Obama like his slave,he insulted the American politicians and they didn't say anything in return !!
 
@Hezam:
Im Pleased to hear that you found my post Usefull and I would Willingly try to answer your questions regarding Iran as far as would be able !


As i know/hear Iran treats Christians/Jews/Zarotoshtian ..etc equally excepting Sunni !

Before Answering this I need to know what exactly you mean by Inequality toward Sunnis
One unfortunate Fact for Certain in Iran is that Many ordinary Iranian shias do not have a True Image of "Sunnis" due to their lack of Information or Misinformations so the result might be being mistreated by some parts of the society , Many Iranians Cannot Differ a Maaleki Sunni from a Wahhabi , Many Iranians think all Sunnis were participating in the death of Prophet's Grandson , Hussein during the time of Yazid , and also there are some Iranians who simply dislike Sunnis becuase for them it is equal of being an Arab , and im sure you are aware of this Questionalble Blind Hate between "Arabs and Persians" !
But I do not think there would be any Systemiticaly Inequality Imposed directly on Sunnis , so if you are aware of anything specefic , please give me more details on it because I might be unaware of it .


Yes but since the Safawi (Jafari shia) came to Iran everythings changed,right ?

Let me first Tell you that As an Iranian I see what Happened during the time of safawis somewhat similiar to what happened During the Arabs Invasion !
Arabs toppled down the Sasanians Empire and Many Persians were Killed or enslaved during the process ; that might sound like an unforgivable shocking incident for Persian's Pride ; but Do I regret the Fact that I became a Muslim due to the defeat of a Persian Empire ? No , I am actually quite thankfull that such a thing happend as a Result , even if it was initially by force in some parts , and As you might know , unlike Spain , Iranians never Tried to Abandon Islam to go back to their Previous Religion (Zarotoshti) even after they got independant from Arabs .
The same thing can be said about the Safawis
One Fact to know is that the Founder of Safawia himself (Shah Ismael Safawi) could hardly be called a Persian (couldnt speak any Persian and his mothertongue was Turkish , He began his Monarchy in Tabriz a city in the north-west of Iran in the Azerbaijan Province) He had a Deep Hatred toward Sunnis because his father and brother were killed in a Shia-sunni fight (supposedly the actual reason of the fight was a piece of land between two Tribes ) , and Due to his Personal Hate he Started Mass Murdering of Those who were not Shia ,
He is Praised for Unitifying the country at a Chaotic State in our history but he is never mentioned as a "Good Person" due to his Savage Deeds !
but the most Important Figure of Safawia was "Shah Abbas Safawi" who Defeated Ottomans and Uzbeks in the west and east , and throw Portaguese into the sea in the south in a city now called "Bandar Abbas" or Port of Abbas !
When you look at this man's records in history, he was more than a Secular Ruler than a Religious one , and was only using the name of the religion as a tool of Justification (Same as many other Rulers at that time )
so ... Even though Iranians were initially converted from Shafei Sunni to Jafari Shiasm by force , but yet , after Iran was Conquered by Sunni Afghans in the end of the Safawia , they Mainly Kept their Belifs till now !
All of the above can make it Clear that the Accusation of Iranians following the "Safawi Shia" (As I heard a few times) is false one , while not even the Most Nationalist Iranians Ive talked to say they are proud of "Religious Actions" of Safawi kings !

They built Nice Buildings in Isfahan though :)


a Picture belived to be Shah Ismael Safawi - The founder of Safawia (Source Wiki):



a Map of Changes of Iran's Territories During the Time of Safawi (Source : Wiki)
Map_Safavid_persiapng-1.jpg



"Kaakhe Chehel Sotoon (fourty Pillars Palace) in Isfahan - Built During the Safawia :
40sotoon-1.jpg




Ahmadi Najad ? where did he come from ?


The Governing system of Iran is a bit more Complicated than it Appears and becasue it has no other Example around the world it needs Unique Explanations on how the system works , which is a long story
But to make it Short :
Ahmainjead is the President of Iran he only runs the "goverment" ...
while The Supreme Leader (or as we call "Rahbar") who runs the main System is another man , "Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei" , who is in the Control of the Armed Forces (both the Army and Revoloutinary Gaurds Corps.) and final Solutions and Plans in the country . he was chosen as the Supreme leader by the "Sho'raye Khobregaan (Council of Experts)" after the death of the first Supreme leader of Iran "Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini" .
The Current Supreme Leader is ethnicialy Azeri and was born in Azerbaijan (north-west), but raised in Mashad (east)
If you want to know the background of Ahmadinjead as well he was Born in Semnan (Center) , and can be called Persian but there are rumers that he has a Jewish Background , I cant confrim or deny it though .


Ahwaz is just like Kurdistan...
Sorry I dont get it , From what Aspect !?


Arab exsists there even before 3000 years ago...please read about Arab history.
I never heard this before , I will check
but I also never heard of any War between Ancient Persians and Arabs of that Area (before Islam) , maybe they joined Iran peacefully ? Becasue as maps show that part was inside Boarders of Iran during that time .


I have a question,even if it's off topic but i don't have another one to ask but you,
Are Iranian people Shia (jafari) ? What percentage of Shia in Iran ?

Its ok , Feel Free to Ask
Yes , Shia of Iran are Jafari or Twelvth-Imami which is the most common form of the Shiasm .
According to International Statistics :
in Iran ...
99.5% Muslim : (91.2% Shia & 7.8% Sunni)
0.2% Christian
0.1% Jewish
0.1% Zarotoshti
0.1% Bahaii



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ps : I totally Agree with Hezam on his Comment about Israeli- US ties !
 
"The American Jews started moving their money to china because of the bad western economy...after all they follow their interests."

Hezam, I usually find your posts interesting; but you're prone to making bigoted statements against Jews. In fact, many American financial advisors have been telling us to move investment assets abroad, instead of focusing only on US investments. Many investors, whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or whatever, are moving some percent of their investments abroad, including China.

People invest in stocks, bonds, and commodities to make money, or at least preserve the value of their assets. Selfish motives, maybe, but they keep the world economy alive. If you want to criticize such motives, fine -- but it's not fair to single Jews out for criticism.
 
"The American Jews started moving their money to china because of the bad western economy...after all they follow their interests."

Hezam, I usually find your posts interesting; but you're prone to making bigoted statements against Jews. In fact, many American financial advisors have been telling us to move investment assets abroad, instead of focusing only on US investments. Many investors, whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or whatever, are moving some percent of their investments abroad, including China.

People invest in stocks, bonds, and commodities to make money, or at least preserve the value of their assets. Selfish motives, maybe, but they keep the world economy alive. If you want to criticize such motives, fine -- but it's not fair to single Jews out for criticism.
I choose jews because they are the most rich people in the US,they control the coutry,the media,the companies,factories,even the formal decisions...
They are driving the US to the abyss.
I wonder when will the athiests in the US take the decision !
The Israelian governers insulted the American politicians several times.
 
Where did you get the idea that most rich people here are Jewish? It isn't true at all.

You can argue that American Jews have disproportionate influence in our policy-making about Israel. But the same can be said about Cuban-Americans and our policy toward Cuba.

The fact is that in a democracy or republic, a minority can have disproportionate influence on one issue, when that one issue is more important to the minority than it is to the majority. Non-Jewish Americans simply don't care as much about Israel, one way or another, as Jewish-Americans. The same is true with Cuban-Americans and Cuba.

I'm not Jewish or Cuban. I recognize we have problems in our dealings with both countries, but I'm afraid that Cuban and Israel really aren't all that high in my list of priorities. When I go to the polls to vote, I'm concerned more about the economy, jobs, taxes, government spending, and other issues that impact my life more directly.

The safe course for an American politician is to be pro-Israel. That's not as likely to offend me as if he/she is, say, for more war, taxes, or government spending. If a politician is against Israel, on the other hand, that's not likely to gain or lose my vote -- but it will lose the votes of many Jewish-Americans. Perhaps as our population of other ethnic groups from the Middle East grows, that political calculation will change.
 
Where did you get the idea that most rich people here are Jewish? It isn't true at all.

You can argue that American Jews have disproportionate influence in our policy-making about Israel. But the same can be said about Cuban-Americans and our policy toward Cuba.

The fact is that in a democracy or republic, a minority can have disproportionate influence on one issue, when that one issue is more important to the minority than it is to the majority. Non-Jewish Americans simply don't care as much about Israel, one way or another, as Jewish-Americans. The same is true with Cuban-Americans and Cuba.

I'm not Jewish or Cuban. I recognize we have problems in our dealings with both countries, but I'm afraid that Cuban and Israel really aren't all that high in my list of priorities. When I go to the polls to vote, I'm concerned more about the economy, jobs, taxes, government spending, and other issues that impact my life more directly.

The safe course for an American politician is to be pro-Israel. That's not as likely to offend me as if he/she is, say, more war, taxes, or government spending. If a politician is against Israel, on the other hand, that's not likely to gain or lose my vote -- but it will lose the votes of many Jewish-Americans. Perhaps as our population of other ethnic groups from the Middle East grows, that political calculation will change.
It sounds like most americans don't care about the policy..!
All what they care about is filling their stomachs and having fun while some nuts destroying their nation day after day !!
 
Actually it's not about that Hezam, you say US is being destroyed by jews, which is your opinion. I personally don't think its possible, since global politics and economy wouldn't want USA out of the game. When someone talks about politics, this can't be limited to policies about one county or just economy, one politic decision effects everything, and in this case, being pro-Israel is better for US, thats all.. I don't love Israel, i don't hate it neither, its true they have high influence, but this is not a crime. Its politics. You don't like them because you don't have anything to gain, and maybe something to lose, thats all.. If middle-east wants to prosper, they have to improve their diplomacy skills. Its the same for every country. If you want America to have positive opinion about Arabs, you have to build influence over them, make better diplomatic offers, let them learn your differences and try to learn theirs etc..
 
You can argue that American Jews have disproportionate influence in our policy-making about Israel. But the same can be said about Cuban-Americans and our policy toward Cuba.

The safe course for an American politician is to be pro-Israel.

May I Have a word !? :)
I think The Point is The Cuban-American's interests are simply Based on thier own domestic affairs of their country and not taking out other countries with militiary Force , or at-least such a thing did not happen in the last decades .
But the Jewish-Americans Influence is bringing Hate and Destruction to the Middle-east , so while it might be only a political game for American Citizens , for a middle-eastern the high influence of the Zionism on American Policy can be matter of death and life ; war and peace , would you have still Ignored it if you were in their place !?
to be honest I persoanlly do not care much about the affects of the Zionism Influnence on Americans itself , They want them in power and they would take the side-effects
but you should be aware that such Influence does not simply come from the Jewish Population of the United States but from Strong Lobbies of Israel there , the ones Like "AIPAC" !

And you are very right about the safe course of American Politicans , which is a Sad Fact in the Eyes of those who have to live around "this Political Supported Savagery" !


and Ather , Its not as Simple as that , What we are Seeing today is the result of Arab's Good Diplomatic Offers !! I believe The Majority of Middle-easterns Goal is not to "Only" Prosper by any means , but to be Free , Independant and prosperous at the same time !
 
Actually it's not about that Hezam, you say US is being destroyed by jews, which is your opinion. I personally don't think its possible, since global politics and economy wouldn't want USA out of the game. When someone talks about politics, this can't be limited to policies about one county or just economy, one politic decision effects everything, and in this case, being pro-Israel is better for US, thats all.. I don't love Israel, i don't hate it neither, its true they have high influence, but this is not a crime. Its politics. You don't like them because you don't have anything to gain, and maybe something to lose, thats all.. If middle-east wants to prosper, they have to improve their diplomacy skills. Its the same for every country. If you want America to have positive opinion about Arabs, you have to build influence over them, make better diplomatic offers, let them learn your differences and try to learn theirs etc..
Are you serious !!?????
By deplomacy we lost palestine,By deplomacy we lost iraq,by deplomacy we lost our freedom...etc.
The deplomacy is an excuse to occupy more land and controle the countries in the middle east.


Ather said:
I don't love Israel, i don't hate it neither, its true they have high influence, but this is not a crime. Its politics. You don't like them because you don't have anything to gain, and maybe something to lose, thats all.
Not crime ? well that's funny...you seem one of the Kamalist people ? or maybe you are not Turkish ??

Colonel Hamed said:
What we are Seeing today is the result of Arab's Good Diplomatic Offers !! I believe The Majority of Middle-easterns Goal is not to "Only" Prosper by any means , but to be Free , Independant and prosperous at the same time !
I strongly agree,because of those pigs/dogs/bastards...etc we lost our freedom,the best solution is kicking them out or killing them all.
If you ask the Arab people who they want to rule them,most of them will choose Rajab Tayyep Erdogan (Turkish PM) or Ahmadi Najad (Iran president).
 
Well, actually you are making the same mistake again, as other Arabs and latest Turkish people did. Like you said, you want Ahmadi Najad or Recep Tayyip Erdogan to rule, most of Arabs did. Why ? The reason is they look like they are decent religious figures and example rulers. Thats because they use religion as weapons and people of faith are deceived by this easily. Did you know, that Recep Tayyip was invited to White House before he was nothing but a man whose political actions were forbidden because of over-religious comments and hostility against secular government. But after that dinner, a puppet party was created, "bought" the people with seemingly infinite money, became leading party with no coalition involved, and removing the ban on the Recep Tayyip to become a politican again, making him prime minister. He is now on the way of changing the main law systems and weakening the will of armed forces for complete obedience. What do you think it will happen there is a major conflict in middle-east ? That Turkey will side with middle-east ? Not while prime-minister is a puppet of America. Turkish people noticed it though, so they went in another diplomatic action, which involves having foreign support from muslim countries, who only considers being muslim as important. Thats why middle-east is in ruins.Thats what i've been talking about diplomacy.
The reason US is a great power in world politics is not military power or exlucive economic influence, but to use diplomacy effectively. If you want to have your freedom, you have to think clearly before making a move, calculate the effects of your decision and do not make emotional choices. If you look it that way, ottoman empire conqured many nations, and as a result they must hate their successors, turkish people. We should hate allies because they invaded our country and it took millions of dead soldiers to gain our freedom. We should even hate Arabs, because they betrayed the ottoman empire.
Governments make decisions about whole people, so they have to do whats best for the country regardless of former hostilities, religious views, and short-termed gains. Thats the reason why most countries in middle-east are dependent. If you want to be free, independent, prosperous countries, you first have to become secular, then use you resources for higher technology and improve educational systems in order to raise a generation who can think and express their ideas better. Because no matter how many wars you win, no matter how powerful military you have, it will all come down to diplomacy. If it doesn't it means you are living in military dictatorship.
I'm Turkish but i don't have certain politic opinions, because no one is right in every aspect. There are some points politician A is right about, and there are some others Politican B is. If you limit yourself to one way, one opinion, you will lose, sooner or later.

Edit: And the reason why Arab's current situation bad is not "good diplomatic offers". Its agreements without mutual gains, governments forbidding freedom, lack of good educational system etc.
 
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If you want to be free, independent, prosperous countries, you first have to become secular

I Totally Disagree !
That Sentence is Quite Familiar to me , It has been said throught the history :
" If you want to be free, independent& prosperous you first have to Adopt Comminusim
If you want to be free, independent& prosperous you first have to Adopt Capitalism
If you want to be free, independent& prosperous you first have to Obey us ..."
I rather continue "Our own" way , cause I cant say my country isnt making any Progress !


Interesting Info ...
I dont know about the history of rajab Teyyeb Erdoughan much and to be honest I never trusted Turkey's Secular system deep in Heart either . I see Turks Role more like a Mediator than an Ally .
and you are definitly right , No body should expect Turkey to choose Midde-east over west in case of war ( not that any "Arab Govermant" can be trusted either ! )
But I believe Ahmadinejad is a deeply religious person , I dont think he is using his believes as a Tool ... Even though he makes odd decisions and comments once in while but I rather have him than a Secular Coward who is always wondering what "he" might lose if his country would Stand for his Rights!
Standing for an Ideology I believe in is more Valuable to me.

and By the way , this So called "Great power" is on its Edge now due to the Great Recession theyre in and their failing endless battles in the region , Indeed United States has been a Superpower for decades but I can never take them and their deeds as an "example role" .
 
I would like to conclue with this Interesting Dream Map of the separatists backed by western powers and Zionists to create Weak dependent Islamic Countries :
New_middle_east_graphic_2003-1.jpg

Are you claiming that this is an real map by the US government, or just something that you created based on what you think they want?
 
Are you claiming that this is an real map by the US government, or just something that you created based on what you think they want?

No , I wouldnt Claim such a thing Becasue Obvioulsy US goverment would Never Admit it , But I have v Clear Proofs that Seperatist Movements Atleast Inside Iran "are" Supported Directly or Indireclty by the United States !
And neithter I created the map nor itst Based on what "I" think , Its based on what those Movements are asking for .
 
No , I wouldnt Claim such a thing Becasue Obvioulsy US goverment would Never Admit it , But I have very Clear Proofs that Seperatist Movements Atleast In Iran "are" Supported Directly or Indireclty by the United States !
And the Map is not Based on what "I" think , Its based on what those Movements are asking for .

Okay, which groups? and why would the United States want this? Why didn't the US push a partition of Iraq?
 
Standing by the old ways proven to be wrong time after time, colonel, still if you feel like it, you choice.

What i've been saying is, middle-eastern countries should change their opinions and politics about global world if they want to make progress. Because in todays world, no country can stand alone. Even the most powerful needs allies or at least other countries to support them once in a while. But the situation in middle east is worse, they want to stand by themselves, reject any change, and for that, they put distances between other countries. Sometimes this is done by "big powers", sometimes some lousy misguided politican, sometimes by people, but still, it is done. If middle-east don't change their policy, i think it will be worse. This doesn't mean you have to disregard you traditons or beliefs, just adopt to the new world.. Because if you don't people will not be able to understand you, and that misunderstanding can cause much more discomfort. Let people get to know you, thats all..
 
Okay, which groups? and why would the United States want this? Why didn't the US push a partition of Iraq?

Which Groups?
Kurdistan:
Komole - Armed Seperatist Group of Kurdistan (ofcourse they dont claim to seperatist in public anymore) They Interview with VOA (voice of america) very often and they keep talking about how brutal the regime is and things like that , I wonder how United States or any country would react toward an Armed Seperatist movement.
PKK - another Armed Group which is fighting in Turkey and Iran and was fighting Iraq during Saddam's Regime for an Independant Kurdistan , But United States Remained Silent at the mass murder of Kurds by Saddam while at the same time they were nagging at Iran why they dont give them enough freedom , also During the Iran-Iraq war they were recieving weapon from west

Khuzistan : At the Begining of the Islamic revolution in Iran a Group Called "Khalghe-Arab" Declared independance in the region and they were Recieving Weaponary from Saddam's Regime , an Ally of US at that time .

Baluchestan : a Terrorist Group Called "Jundollah" (which doesnt Claim to be seperatist anymore due to lack of popularity) is Recieving Info and Weaponary direclty from US , as its Leader Claimed when he was Captured and later executed , he also Claimed and named to have met some Senior members of the united states to bring insecurrity in the country .
U can Check the web for the official Details.

Azebaijan : a seperatist Group there Also Declared Independance at the begining of the Islamic Revolution but never gained much popularity in that Area , I dont have much information on them.



why would the United States want this?
the same reason the britian Created all those tiny Countries in the region
the same reason the Soviet Union ended up like what it is today after the cold war
the more countries u would have ,the easier it would be to make them obey u !
For me the Reason is Very Clear .


Why didn't the US push a partition of Iraq?
- Doing that directly would have Destroyed US's Image even more , they came to liberate the land not to cut it in pieces
- Do u think Iraq would ever be the same ? Sunnis are killing Shias , Shias are fighting with Kurds , Kurds Hate Sunnis , Saddam was like a Brutal glue to this Country and with him gone , the country is hard to be kept the same way .
-Saddam would never allow a voice of Seperatist to be heard , we cant say US didnt Try , hundreds of thousands were killed for minor things during his time.
-the United States might not have a direct Goal of cutting Iran into pieces right now , but Helping those Movements would eventually weaken the current Regime of Iran , the Axis of Evil (!) , and you cant deny that they are looking forward to that !

Standing by the old ways proven to be wrong time after time, colonel, still if you feel like it, you choice.
You are right Ather , I Agree with most of what you said
But Im not Talking about Old ways , Im talking about New ones !
What's Happening In Iran today cannot be Explained by Old ways
 
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