Italy is full of chinese "japanese restaurants" run by chinese people!

[Astroboy]

A country as vast and demographically diversed as America,the percentages vary region to region or state to state or city to city.It's safe to say 90%-95% of Japanese restaurants are operated by the 3 main East Asian groups ( Japanese Koreans Chinese ).Vietnamese remain a small player for now .

Thanks for your post, which is very interesting to me. So my understanding was correct.

By the way, How can you define which is which? I mean .... this Japanese restaurant is run by Chinese, that is Korean, etc. Are there any sign in front of restaurant ? (though I don't think so.)

To me, I will not be able to recognize the difference among Italian restaurant in Japan run by Italian, French, British, or even Iranian.

 

[Tokugawa Ieyasu]

Thanks for your post, which is very interesting to me. So my understanding was correct.
By the way, How can you define which is which? I mean .... this Japanese restaurant is run by Chinese, that is Korean, etc. Are there any sign in front of restaurant ? (though I don't think so.)
To me, I will not be able to recognize the difference among Italian restaurant in Japan run by Italian, French, British, or even Iranian.

The state I grew up in the U.S.-Minnesota, there's a small Japanese restaurant in downtown Minneapolis (which shall not be named). The food there is pretty decent, but most of the patrons there knows that the restaurant is owned by a Korean family.

It makes a lot of sense economically to open a Japanese restaurant, it's much more "prestigious" compared to Chinese or Korean cuisines in the west, and the profit margin are probably much higher as well.

 

[epigene]

My experience with good Japanese restaurant run and served by non-Japanese was in Toronto, Canada.

During that month-long stay in Toronto, we tried a number of restaurants claiming to be Japanese but never felt it to be true. (Okay, this was years ago, so there must be good restaurants by now.)

But a Japanese restaurant at a certain Ramada Inn was great. My husband was overjoyed, saying the taste is real, and asked the manager's permission to enter the kitchen area to tell the chef we appreciated very much. It so turned out that the chef was Vietnamese and all his helpers were Chinese. The chef said he trained in Japan and immigrated to Canada.
The manager was Nikkei but couldn't speak a word of Japanese. Still, we enjoyed the food and conversation with this nice person and the friendly staff.

 

[Trollhattan]

By the way, How can you define which is which ? I mean .... this Japanese restaurant is run by Chinese, that is Korean, etc. Are there any sign in front of restaurant ? ( though I don't think so. )

No one ( including me ) can be 100% certain which ethnic group runs that restaurant and I haven't been to one ( has a sign displays it ) tells patrons it's native-Japanese or non-Japanese owned.It's not PC to ask such a blunt question in N America,it can be perceived as a hint of prejudice.

However,me and some others who have been around East Asian folks might have some clue to what ethnicity of the owners and staff by their phenotype(s) and mannerism.Notion of ALL LOOK SAME (ALLLOOKSAME.com). Is it really true?

Or,just ask if they're Japanese people .I generally can tell Koreans & Japanese apart at a glance.

I would think both Koreans & Chinese rather have customers not to question or wonder if it's native-Japanese owned restaurant.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I generally can tell Koreans & Japanese apart at a glance.

How.....? ☝

 

[epigene]

How.....? ☝

It depends on whether or not you have extensive knowledge of the distinctive mannerisms, taste in clothing, etc.

I could tell them apart easily from a distance when I lived in the US.

Here in Japan? Not any more because Koreans who have spent most or all of their lives in Japan take on Japanese tastes and mannerisms. In addition, Koreans (in Korea and elsewhere) now imitate Japanese fashion and styles and dress like Japanese and so are harder to tell apart, AFAIK.

 

[Trollhattan]

How.....? ☝

Certain peculiar facial characteristics or bone structure ( also particularly different physical build for male gender ) set them apart from the Japanese.Of-course,this doesn't rule out the possibility of a few random individuals could definitely pass for Japanese phenotype wise.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Certain peculiar facial characteristics or bone structure ( also particularly different physical build for male gender ) set them apart from the Japanese.Of-course,this doesn't rule out the possibility of a few random individuals could definitely pass for Japanese phenotype wise.

I don't think you can tell the difference by looking at purely physical characteristics. There used to be an online test that proved it was impossible, but it's not working anymore. If you really are correctly guessing the difference then I think it's either a lucky guess or you're using some other clues, such as Epigene describes.

 

[undrentide]

I don't think you can tell the difference by looking at purely physical characteristics. There used to be an online test that proved it was impossible, but it's not working anymore. If you really are correctly guessing the difference then I think it's either a lucky guess or you're using some other clues, such as Epigene describes.

I second Tsuyoiko's opinion. ☝

 

[Trollhattan]

I could tell them apart easily from a distance when I lived in the US.

Yep

I don't think you can tell the difference by looking at purely physical characteristics.

If you really are correctly guessing the difference then I think it's either a lucky guess or you're using some other clues, such as Epigene describes.

It depends on whether or not you have extensive knowledge of the distinctive mannerisms, taste in clothing, etc.

I can only speak for myself,most of them do look ( facial features & body build ) apparently different to my eyes.

Yes,I do use other clues as mentioned by Epigene and also have stated mannerism in one of mine previous post on this page.

In addition, Koreans (in Korea and elsewhere) now imitate Japanese fashion and styles and dress like Japanese and so are harder to tell apart, AFAIK.

AFAIK,the S Koreans in US are Americanized not Japanesized.Neither dressed like Japanese nor become acculturated Japanese.

Over in the Far East,Japanesization amongst the younger generation East Asians & SE Asians is more evident.

 

[epigene]

Okay, Trollhattan's claim is based on his observations of Japanese and Koreans in the US. Koreans there are not as influenced by Japanese culture as the Koreans in Asia are. So, that is the base of his claim.

Along the line of facial features, I found this:
Chinese, Korean, Japanese

Many of the members have probably seen it. It was my first time, and I guessed correctly for all three.
HOWEVER, these are computer-created composite faces that emphasize ethnic traits. ALSO, there are so many people in all of these three countries that share these traits. I know 100% Japanese people who resemble one or more of these three faces.

PS Enough digression. Further posts on the topic of ethnic characteristics should be posted elsewhere.

 

[MCS]

my views on it
fried sushi rolls with avocado, cheese, bbq sauce, whatever else 'non traditional' on there are available all over the world, not just 'western' italy, england, america, but also japan, korea, china etc. getting worked up over it is wasted energy, people all over the world seem to buy it and eat it otherwise it wouldn't be so widespread anyway ?
i like my sushi to be non fried, no cheesed up, not bbq sauced up, but because it's my pesonal preferance not because it is 'messing up the "true" sushi..it's 2010, you have a mcd's and starbucks on every streetcorner in the bigger cities in japan, americans ***** about 'rice patty' burgers being so popular in not just japan but lots of other countries too ? ruining the 'tradition of burgers' ?
chinese food can be either sweet and heavy 'westernised' or traditional but the westernised chinese food is available all over the world not just western countries. seems like there's a market for it no ?
if i want to eat sushi i care about the quality of the engredients not who is preparing it, if there are rolls with cheese and avocado on the menu i like to have the option to order rolls without all that and just more traditional because it's lighter i just prefer that, but just because the 'westernised' rolls are on the menu does not mean it's a bad restaurant.
if i order miso and they give it to me as a starter not with my meal sure it's a bummer but that doesn't make the food bad.
if i order salmon roll and the waiter who is belgian corrects me saying 'ah sake roll ?' (while my gf who is half japanese is sitting right in front of him) well then so be it, i don't get worked up over it, it's a bummer but not an insult to quisine.
if you like your sushi rolls fried, with cheese, avocado and whatever else, if you enjoy eating it eat it, if you don't, don't order it and don't ***** and order something else.
in antwerp lots of sushi bars are owned by chinese and the chefs are indian, who gives a damn ? if the food is good quality why can't you enjoy eating it ?
if you go to a burger king do you want your meal to be prepared by an american so it would be the 'real deal' ?
there's sushi bars here promoting their restaurants as 'unspoiled true japanese quisine'.
i don't care, neither does my girlfriend, if we happen to go there and order food and it's good food, great, but their slogan 'unspoiled unwesternised' does not grant it will be better than something else.

 

[Trollhattan]

To me, I will not be able to recognize the difference among Italian restaurant in Japan run by Italian, French, British, or even Iranian.

a tip of advice: Go to Nippon !

It still doesn't give you a guaranteed 100% native Japanese

Because you can't never know who runs it or what ethnic group the owner hired to work there,only after the fact sometimes.Case in point,I recently won a Japanese kiloware stamp lot from an Ebay seller based in Japan.I later found out it's operated by some Thai national by the name of Sarawut ( PayPal account confirmed this person's full name is NOT a Japanese native ).I initially thought I was dealing with native Japanese organization selling bulk stamps to fund local charity work.I am bitching here because they dumped a few hundred visible damaged stamps in my order.

To this day,I have NEVER been cheated by real native Japanese in business transactions IRL & online.It's those other Asian people ripped me off using Japan & Japanese culture.

 

[MCS]

wow....

you really do believe that ? would you say that still, having chinese, korean, thai friends ?

i mean that last post totally baffled me someone actually believes japanese are superior to others, so uncomfortable to read that...
i have no words for that sort of ignorance and putting all people in the same label box because of their ethnicity ?

sorry really nowords.., honestly i feel disgusted to have posted in the same thread as this person above me and i mean that, wether it's on a forum or real life i would have the same reaction to that ingorance : at a loss for words.

 

[Trollhattan]

I mean that last post totally baffled me someone actually believes japanese are superior to others, so uncomfortable to read that...

Superiority :?

The native Japanese have strong sense of business integrity and quality,is that uncomfortable for you to accept these known facts :? W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia

 

[MCS]

yes your ignorance is hard for me to accept but i'll have to.

you said, and i quote
"It's those other Asian people ripped me off using Japan & Japanese culture."

'those other asian people'..does that not sound like putting people in a label box and automatically thinking non japanese will rip you off.
i don't think i'm out of line here pointing out ignorance.

 

[Trollhattan]

yes your ignorance is hard for me to accept but i'll have to.

Perhaps,it's your ignorance of real facts in this world

It's well known in Asia,the Japanese have good reputation and made in Japan & made by Japanese generally mean TOP QUALITY.

They have BETTER cultural traits than the Chinese & Koreans by the way.Ask any sensible Chinese,he or she can confirm it.

There are countless claims by other Asian folk how they've been ripped off by FAKE or IMITATION Japanese products sold and services rendered by some non-Japanese Asian ethnicitiy.

 

[MCS]

expecting natives to commit harakiri because they lost a war to japan seems to also be a fact
good business indeed
Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia
know your facts

i'm going to end this here because it's really pointless to go on and waste time on other's stupid remarks.

 

[Trollhattan]

your above off topic post is irrelevant to this thread

NOTE: moderators,please delete off-topic posts

Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia

know your facts

How do you explain the Koreans and Chinese promote Japanese cuisine :?

Also,these East Asian nationalities do love Japanese food

 

[MCS]

sure they can delete my post and hide the facts so you can sleep safe and sound and think 'damn i sure proved that person wrong, how brilliant i am enlightening people'

i don't care, thankfully you are not a person who is part of my life with those kinds of views on ethnicity or i'd feel even more disgusted

 

[Astroboy]

How do you explain the Koreans and Chinese promote Japanese cuisine :?

Promotion of Japanese foods undertaken by Chinese & Korean is mostly good to Japan, I think. But I personally feel sorry for them as they prove that Chinese/Korean foods are not so attractive.

 

[Chidoriashi]

It still doesn't give you a guaranteed 100% native Japanese
Because you can't never know who runs it or what ethnic group the owner hired to work there,only after the fact sometimes.Case in point,I recently won a Japanese kiloware stamp lot from an Ebay seller based in Japan.I later found out it's operated by some Thai national by the name of Sarawut ( PayPal account confirmed this person's full name is NOT a Japanese native ).I initially thought I was dealing with native Japanese organization selling bulk stamps to fund local charity work.I am bitching here because they dumped a few hundred visible damaged stamps in my order.
To this day,I have NEVER been cheated by real native Japanese in business transactions IRL & online.It's those other Asian people ripped me off using Japan & Japanese culture.

While I can see where this comment could be construed as making an over generalization. I think Trollhattan, is simply speaking from experience. Japanese society has lots of rules and many Japanese follow these rules, because they are rules, they do not really question it. And this has helped to translate into a good reputation for quality, and integrity. Of course it is not right to lump an entire group of people into a "dishonest" category, but I think people have a right to speak from their experiences. I really do not see much more in this post than that.

MCS if he would have said it like "it has always been people from other Asian ethnic groups that have ripped me off".. would that sound better?

 

[ummi68]

Eat sushi

A Japanese recipe is Japanese to the extent that it had been observed. The fact that something is made by Chinese people, using ingredients that originated from China means nothing. If those places are making sushi or whatever else just the same way Japanese people would, I see no issue.

I have never eat sushi before. Got to try one.
Thanks

 

[Captain Udon]

I think I understand what ItalianDude is trying to say. Around the late-90's almost all the Japanese owned and run restaurants in the US where I lived and traveled disappeared. And the vacuum created was filled by Korean, Chinese, and even SE Asians who opened "japanese" restaurants . For the most part the food was not that good or at best not the same as the one's that was owned and operated by Japanese chefs. Some were close, but many were not that good especially when you consider they charge a much higher price than the typical Korean, Chinese, or Vietnamese restaurants. But the real punchline is that I have relatives in the restaurant business who were approached by Chinese business people who stated quite bluntly that they wanted to open a japanese restaurant because the profit margin is bigger since they could charge more then if they opened a chinese eatery. Their reasoning was that non-Japanese are willing to pay more for what they think is japanese food then they would for chinese food. I personally don't understand this, but I think it is true -- that most people expect Japanese food to be expensive and Chinese food to be inexpensive.
Understand that I'm not trying to slight anyone, I happen to like both Japanese and Chinese food.

 

[numnum]

As for me I went to such "Chinese" Japanese restoraunt and the experience was different when eating in Japanese owned shops. I can see why Italian Dude here is angry a bit...

When i went there, the disher were tiny, price was high, and taste was too much different from other (umm original? ) Japanese restaurants where i have been to...

If they made their food well and in a similar fashion as Japanese then that would be ok, but instead they named the restoraunt like that and did some half-*** job with high prices...

Anyways, i also went to such "Italian" pizzeria and none of them were Italian (not that its important), food was sub-standard, prices were much higher than in Italy but the quality is not comparable...

I do not say that they should necessarily be run by Japanese people, but it is just that they try to use these names to their advantage while not providing the service that you are/were (maybe not rightfully?) expecting... For example..

I had really awesome pizzas and pastas in Italy.. When i came here, and i saw Italian resto sign then i thought of those awesome pizzas that i had in Italy...

If i get a crappy pizza thats not made in the way they usually make it in Italy and I remember the taste and stuff, I would say that i dislike Italian food, but the thing is, that resto in particular sucks...

So yeah they should maybe put like ( eventho we make noodles we dont make them the same way that the most of Japanese do? )

Or maybe i am just also overreacting but yeah i know that i dont want to go to those lousy resto's again... Hopefully they dont keep changing locations and names all the time. Sometimes they even use fake pictures in the menu's so you don't actually know what you get...