Italy is full of chinese "japanese restaurants" run by chinese people!

[Mycernius]

I went to a Mexican restaurant in Canada run by an Englishman originally from Brighton, who was also the chef. Did I complain, no, because despite his ethnic background the food was delicious. Why are you having such a problem over this? More chinese people emigrate from china than japanese. I'm sure there are plenty of chinese restaurants, so one or two will try something different. Japanese is popular, so they do japanese.
Does your attitude mean that when I want to make sushi at home I need to get a japanese sushi chef in to make it because I'm not "authentic"? That is about the level of your argument.

 

[Hezam]

A new Japanese or chinese ( not sure ) resturant opened few months ago here,I will try it.
I will take sushi and compare it to the original Japanese sushi.
As long as they make it like the Japanese it's ok !

 

[nice gaijin]

I wrote a few articles for a cultural anthropology class about "authentic" experiences in regards to Japanese restaurants in the US. I learned more from my teacher's response to my paper than I did in all the research I did to write it in the first place. The point wasn't for me to pass judgment on the authenticity of Japanese restaurants in America, but to ask oneself "what IS an authentic experience?" Perhaps you would also find it interesting to ask yourself this same question, and you might find that all experiences are authentic because you are there experiencing them! In our modern world, all of our experiences have a variety of influences; you can either enjoy them with an open mind or complain about them.

In the states, Japanese restaurants are often run and manned by people from other countries. Many Americans know this and it doesn't seem to make much difference, because they still patronize those restaurants. American sushi is also different from sushi here, but it's still called "sushi" and most Americans still consider is "Japanese food." Would you like to go around assuring everyone that their experiences eating Japanese food are inauthentic and they've been tricked? I think it makes for interesting conversation, but it's nothing to get so worked up over. Japanese restaurants are popular and more profitable than other types of cuisine, which is why so many non-Japanese entrepreneurs decide to serve Japanese food.

Likewise, I went to an "Italian" restaurant yesterday for lunch. The waiter and chef were Japanese, and they served mentaiko spaghetti, a decidedly non-Italian dish. Should I have complained and demanded my money back? Should I feel like they were trying to trick me with their "Italian" atmosphere and restaurant name?

In the end, you either like the food or you don't, you like the atmosphere and service or not, you have a good experience or not, and you'll either patronize that restaurant again or you won't. All of your experiences are authentic.

 

[Chidoriashi]

To me Japanese restaurants run by non-Japanese people have no problem as far as they serve Japanese food. As Jericho mentioned, if one wants authentic xxxxx (apply any country's name) using the ingredients from the country and cooked by the people from that country, one has to travel to that country!

But I also think that ItalianDude's post has some points; I often hear from Japanese people who travelled abroad and missed Japanese food. They found Japanese restaurants and sometimes they got a surprise (whose another name is "disappointment") to see that some restaurants serve dishes which can be anything but Japanese!
Of course, that happens not only Japanese restaurants but any country's cuisine, but the point is, it is a bit sad if such dishes are recognized as "typical Japanese food" by the local people who have never tried real Japanese food before.

Ingredients used for Japanese cooking are not always available any place in the world, so sometimes something is missing or replaced by something similar, that should be OK and to be accepted (to a certain extent).

I think the difference in food is mostly attributed to the fact that restaurants must cater to the tastes of the locals if they want to stay in business. If authentic Japanese recipes/tastes do not sell well then they have no choice but to adjust their menu or risk going out of business.

In all honesty I am very hard pressed to find "Western/American" food in Japan that really reminds me of stuff I can eat back home. This is because Western food in Japan is not made for me. It is made for Japanese people.

I'm pretty sure that if the OP were to come to Japan, he may in fact be quite surprised by how different the Japanese food, and Italian food is here, from how it is back in Italy, no matter who is running the restaurant.

 

[undrentide]

I think the difference in food is mostly attributed to the fact that restaurants must cater to the tastes of the locals if they want to stay in business. If authentic Japanese recipes/tastes do not sell well then they have no choice but to adjust their menu or risk going out of business.

In all honesty I am very hard pressed to find "Western/American" food in Japan that really reminds me of stuff I can eat back home. This is because Western food in Japan is not made for me. It is made for Japanese people.

I'm pretty sure that if the OP were to come to Japan, he may in fact be quite surprised by how different the Japanese food, and Italian food is here, from how it is back in Italy, no matter who is running the restaurant.

I basically agree with your opinion, the cases I mentioned is not the localized food (like Chinese dishes served in Chinese restaurants in Japan) but something totally different (and in most cases tastes awful).

I have no objection to call localized food by the original name (like California rolls as sushi, or the restaurant serving mentaiko spaghetti as Italian restaurant or tenshin-don as Chinese dish.)

 

[Trollhattan]

I basically agree with your opinion, the cases I mentioned is not the localized food (like Chinese dishes served in Chinese restaurants in Japan) but something totally different ( and in most cases tastes awful ).

To be honest,I've had a few minor negative experiences in non-native Japanese owned Japanese restaurants in the USA.

I was served oil-soggy Tempura in a grand opening Taiwanese-owned Japanese restaurant,our waitress was real native Japanese girl ( she looked like young Aki Yashiro ).I saw Hispanic men working in the kitchen.Perhaps,they weren't properly trained - I don't know.I never went back there again

One time,I ordered Tempura ice cream for dessert at a Korean-owned Japanese restaurant that I often frequent ( because of reasonable priced lunch bento meals @ $6.95,beef teriyaki was really good there and also I loved their sesame salad dressing ) at least once a week back then.It tasted terrible .. what I got was a huge clump of fried batter with small scoop of artificial green tea flavored ice cream.Nothing like attached photo below.

 

[MTR]

I've had people tell me that they don't like Japanese food, because it tastes terrible.
But the thing is how do they know that it's terrible, when they haven't tried the REAL Japanese one?
I have no objection to non-authentic Japanese food, made by non-Japanese people, as long as it tastes good.
But some restaurants that serve non-authentic Japanese food actually ruin the reputation of Japanese food.
They open Japanese restaurants only because it's profitable.
They capitalize on the popularity of Japanese food, but have no interest in serving GOOD Japanese food.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I know what ItalianDude is talking about. Over the past ten years, all of the authentic Japanese restaurants in my town have sold out to Koreans, who keep the Japanese name and advertise "Japanese food." In every case, the quality of the food dropped dramatically.

One of the keys to serving excellent Japanese food is to use only the freshest ingredients. The Korean owners/chefs don't seem to be as demanding in the quality of the ingredients.

Why don't Korean owners open Korean restaurants? We do have Korean restaurants here, but I've noticed their prices tend to be significantly lower. There's a certain cachet, even a snobbery, in America about eating Japanese food, sushi in particular. So the owner of a "Japanese" restaurant can charge much higher prices than for other Asian food. Even if they serve crappy sushi. They make money because most Americans don't know the difference.

I've had some real good sushi made by Korean chefs (one in particular, whose restaurant burned down, alas), but for the most part the Korean or Chinese sushi I've eaten here is mediocre to poor.

 

[Trollhattan]

Latino chefs are breaking into the sushi business

Latino sushi chefs are a quietly growing phenomenon in Chicago's restaurant industry. For Latino immigrants, the sushi market represents a windfall, offering well-paying, highly visible jobs in a business once dominated by the Japanese.

Among the 139 sushi chefs, 41 are of Japanese descent, 31 Korean, 22 Chinese and three are of other Asian ethnicities. Among Latinos, 25 are Mexican and 17 are Ecuadorian.

http://www.chicagoreporter.com/inde...no_chefs_are_Breaking_into_the_Sushi_Business

 

[Trollhattan]

Authentic Japanese Restaurant Qualification Program http://www.jrac.ca/AuthenticJapaneseRestaurantProgaram.html

In autumn 2006 Japanese Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fishery inquired to the advisory committee " about to establish Standard for Recommendation Program of Japanese Restaurant Abroad ".After several Committee meetings, In March 2007 the Advisory Committee drafted up the Proposal for Japanese Restaurant Recommendation Program and presented it to MAFF.In essence, it says that this kind of program such as giving definition about Japanese cuisine and setting a standard for it should be done by the private sector especially by those restaurateurs who are actually work and struggle now abroad. Thus the role of the government should be focused to make favourable environment to help these private peoples who know and understand best the sociopolitical climate and ethnic temperament of each local community. Thus JRO (Japanese Restaurant Popularization and Promotion Organization) was established in Aug., 2007 which supports the association and its activities in each country. They will set up general gudeline and its logo by Septemberation. It is said that they are aiming to nominate the first such restaurant by March 2008 by setting op new associations or finding appropriate bodies for this program over the world.

This is not to say Japanese owned and operated restaurants are all good and authentic. Indeed there are "bad" Japanese restaurants too. There are non-Japanese chefs who are serious about their authentic skills in Japanese cuisine and culture, but those restaurants are estimated to number less than 50 out of 700 Japanese restaurants in the GTA, which is less than 10%. In summary the chance of coming across an authentic restaurant that a potential Japanese culture lover wants to frequent is extremely slim. In other words a trusting Japanese food lovers' exposure to unauthentic food is more than 90%. Being disillusioned, they turn away from things Japanese before they have a satisfying authentic experience. Slowly but steadily and unconsciously the poor experiences bring forward anti Japanese sentiment since foods and languages are cultural. One unhappy customer can inform many other people about the poor dining experience. "Word of mouth" communication of this sort can make or break a restaurants reputation.

 

[Pachipro]

Italy is full of chinese "japanese restaurants" run by chinese people!

If the food tastes good, so what? Here 95% of the Japanese restaurants are run by Koreans. In most you cannot tell the difference between sushi or other items made in Japan. I've been to one Japanese owned restaurant here in Nashville where the sushi was expensive, small and the rice too wet, but most Americans wouldn't know the difference anyway. In another there are two sushi chefs one Japanese, and the other Korean (his wife) and the food is excellent, fresh and reasonably priced. Still another, fully run by Koreans, although a bit expensive is comparable to anything I've eaten in Japan.

As was mentioned above the point is who cares who makes ethnic food it as long as it made traditionally and to custom? Does the food of Japanese French food chef who studied in France taste any different than one prepared by a French Chef who studied at the same culinary school? I think not.

No matter what ethnic race makes the food, if it tastes bad or is not up to par, people will stop going and they'll soon be out of business.

Why don't Korean owners open Korean restaurants?

Uh, maybe because Korean food is not as popular in the US as Japanese food?

 

[bluestar]

Consider yourself lucky -- here in America, more and more Japanese restaurants are run and staffed by Mexicans!

 

[Ashikaga]

Consider yourself lucky -- here in America, more and more Japanese restaurants are run and staffed by Mexicans!

You forgot to add why that bothers you.

 

[bluestar]

You forgot to add why that bothers you.

You are right... I'm actually getting to like fish tacos.

 

[Tokugawa Ieyasu]

It's a fact:

almost all the "Japanese" restaurants in the U.S. are owned by Koreans.

 

[Trollhattan]

It's a fact:

almost all the "Japanese" restaurants in the U.S. are owned by Koreans.

What fact Have you ever lived or do you live ( apparently not ) in America :?

There are many native-Japanese & Taiwanese owned Japanese restaurants across the US.

 

[Tokugawa Ieyasu]

What fact Have you ever lived or do you live ( apparently not ) in America :?
There are many native-Japanese & Taiwanese owned Japanese restaurants across the US.

Yes, I have lived quite a long time in the states, I'm actually from Minnesota who happens to live in Beijing at the movement.

 

[ChrisGR]

Ok i stopped reading halfway through the thread. i think the whole thread is completely unimportant. (i wrote sth else but i respect the people here).
what is the big deal exactly? if you want to eatﾂ japanese food from japanese restaurant go to the restaurant you think its better.
if you feel its unfair for the society who doesnt know its chinese chefs making it and want to help them then go help an old lady cross the street or give your property to a charity or make a protest outside chinese embassy.
man what if there werent japanese/chinese/etc restaurants at all?
would you have that problem?
its like making a protest to Sony to stop copying Nokia's cell phones!
effect of the consumerism.
a tip of advice: Go to Nippon!

 

[Astroboy]

This is one thing maybe you don't know: Italy, in the last 10 years, has been filled with self-declared "Japanese Restaurants".. the problem is that 99% of them are runned exclusevly by chinese people. Managers, waiters, cooks; everyone is chinese, but the restaurant is named "(random name) japanese (or sushi) restaurant". They exploit the fact that a lot of italian people don't even recognize japanese people from chinese people. They think they are eating in a japanese restaurant run by japanese workers using japanese products.. and none of those things is true!
I have nothing against China, but I'm sure no one in Italy would go to those restaurants if they knew the truth.
I know what japanese restaurants are *real* japanese restaurants in my city, and I never go in chinese "japanese restaurants".. but sadly I am an exception because almost everyone else automatically thinks that if a restaurant is named "japanese restaurants" and the personnel is asiatic, then it must be japanese.
Did you knew about that?
Is this acceptable in your opinion?
If not, what can we (italian people) do to stop this?

I think Japanese restaurants are not necessarily operated by Japanese, but ..... I wonder why so many Chinese are running Japanese restaurants in Italy ????

I believe that Chinese are good at Chinese restaurants as they are Chinese. Plus they are famous as being anti-Japan. So .... very inscrutable & very contradicting.

 

[Half-n-Half]

I believe that Chinese are good at Chinese restaurants as they are Chinese. Plus they are famous as being anti-Japan. So .... very inscrutable & very contradicting.

That's a pretty big generalization. It's only "contradicting" if the Chinese people working at the Japanese restaurant are anti-Japan. You don't have to be Chinese to cook good Chinese food, Italian to cook good Italian food, Japanese to cook good Japanese food, etc etc. I don't really see a problem with Chinese working a Japanese restaurant if people enjoy the food they cook.

 

[bluestar]

If there is no difference between Japanese-made Japanese food and Others-made Japanese food then obviously it doesn't matter who operates a Japanese restaurant. But the fact is, there IS a difference.

Here in the United States, Japanese restautrants operated by real Japanese just offers better restaurant experience for some reason. I personally attribute this phenomenon to Japanese people's tendency to pursue perfection. Their restaurants are cleaner, the waiters/waittresses more polite, the quality of food higher, and the taste better.

Korean-operated Japanese restaurants are very close to Japanese-operated in terms of quality. I think it's because the two cultures are very close; even though Koreans hate Japanese's guts.

Chinese-operated Japanese restaurants are noticeably less expensive, but the quality suffers. At Chinese operated Japanese restaurants I don't eat raw fish because many times I get a rash afterwards -- a sign of unfresh raw fish.

Mexican-operated Japanese restaurants are kind of a surprise to me. It's not wide spread (hopefully it won't spread); but if you accidentally go to one you will regret wasting your money. It's just one notch further down. Nothing against the Mexicans -- they would be the best when it comes to Burritos which I love -- but the cultures are just completely foreign that they don't do a good job. Strange rolls appear on the menu; weird sauce is used; just not what you are counting on.

 

[Trollhattan]

If there is no difference between Japanese-made Japanese food and Others-made Japanese food then obviously it doesn't matter who operates a Japanese restaurant. But the fact is, there IS a difference.

The cultures are just completely foreign that they don't do a good job.Strange rolls appear on the menu; weird sauce is used; just not what you are counting on.

These are valid points

Korean-operated Japanese restaurants are very close to Japanese-operated in terms of quality. I think it's because the two cultures are very close; even though Koreans hate Japanese's guts.

Koreans and Japanese share same attitude towards cleanliness,other than that both cultures are not close.Koreans are the Sinicized East Asian people who have mentality ( think & feel ) just like those filthy Chinese,but they have been trying very hard to rid of it ( in form of De-Sinicization )

Because the Japanese kicked their asses and completely colonized the peninsula ,it's mother of all insults to the Koreans who once considered themselves highly cultured Chinese-wannabes.

Chinese-operated Japanese restaurants are noticeably less expensive, but the quality suffers. At Chinese operated Japanese restaurants I don't eat raw fish because many times I get a rash afterwards -- a sign of unfresh raw fish.

True ... more true if owned & operated by Chinese mainlanders.I won't eat at those places

 

[Astroboy]

True ... more true if owned & operated by Chinese mainlanders.I won't eat at those places

I heard about the following share of Japanese restaurants in USA by racial background:

1) run by Japanese - 20%
2) run by Korean - 20%
3) run by Chinese - 30%
4) run by Vietnamese and others - 30% Is this estimatioin right from your experience ?

I heard that Japanese (Japanese-American) owners of the restaurants are selling their business as their sons or grandsons do not succeed the business. In general, restaurant business is not easy but tough physically. So probably over next decades or so, Japanese restaurants in USA will become something Asian fusion restaurants.

 

[iamjerry]

I think it's OK, I can accept it. If the food in this kind resterant is delicious, people will not care who own made the food or who own the resterant.

 

[Trollhattan]

I heard about the following share of Japanese restaurants in USA by racial background:

1) run by Japanese - 20%
2) run by Korean - 20%
3) run by Chinese - 30%
4) run by Vietnamese and others - 30% Is this estimatioin right from your experience ?

A country as vast and demographically diversed as America,the percentages vary region to region or state to state or city to city.It's safe to say 90%-95% of Japanese restaurants are operated by the 3 main East Asian groups ( Japanese Koreans Chinese ).Vietnamese remain a small player for now ( only a handful owned by them,I have been to one over 10 years ago that served Chinese stir-fried beef for my beef teriyaki order ),it's because both Koreans and Chinese have their " own ethnic " clientele base ( by the way,it's rare to see " real " native-Japanese dine in those places ) as we all know they DO love Japanese food .Vietnamese people like to eat " inexpensive " greasy stir fried Chinese dishes.It's NOT common to see them in Japanese restaurants opposed to Chinese are numerous in any Japanese restaurant.

Koreans are more ethnocentric,great majority would only dine in Korean-owned Japanese restaurants.Once in awhile,I could catch 1 or 2 younger generation Korean-American(s) or Americanized-Korean(s) in a Japanese owned Japanese restaurant.Different story for the Chinese,they love Japanese food and they eat anywhere regardless who owns the restaurant as long as the food don't taste awful.

One notable trend in the 2000's is the mainland Chinese immigrants ( I suspect some are investments via business immigration for US green card/permanent residency ) sprung up many Ramen houses in the greater Chinese cummunitites through out the USA.

I heard that Japanese (Japanese-American) owners of the restaurants are selling their business as their sons or grandsons do not succeed the business.

I know one case,there was a middle-aged Japanese couple owned tofu business ( yes,the husband & wife knew how to make fresh tofu ).They later expanded the place ( they actually owned the building ) to include Sushi bar & dine in Japanese restaurant next door.The couple retired,their son managed it for a year or two ( I saw him there earlier years ) then sold out both businesses.

Restaurant business is labor intensive ( more so for Chinese cuisines,considering variety of ingredients that they have to use ) and it's a hard life,you have to spend 12-14 hours daily and 6-7 days weeks.The rewards are not that great,some are thankful if they could make a decent living.So,it's not a surprise that their offprings typically wouldn't take over.