What's the best way to learn Japanese Online?

[sonicsuns]

I've been looking around the internet for Japanese lessons. I found a bunch of them (and yes, I'm aware that jref has one too), but none of them are really awesome thus far. They tend to be stale and technical, which is boring, which makes it harder to learn IMO.
Take this for example, introducing "wo":

Wo is pronounced 'o' and will be spelled 'o' in romanized Japanese but should not be confused with the vowel o. (W)o is only used as a particle. It is used to mark the object of a sentence.

Or try this one:
[QUOTE"~ te kita （～てきた）" is the verb te form (which is a Japanese verb form. It does not indicate tense by itself, but it combines with other verb forms to create tenses,) + "kita". "Kita" is past tense of the verb "kuru (to come, to get, to become)". "~te kuru （～てくる）" is used to express that an action or a state continues over a period of time.[/QUOTE]
Or this, from our very own jref:

The Japanese language has a highly regular agglutinative verb morphology, with both productive and fixed elements. Typologically, its most prominent feature is topic creation: Japanese is neither topic-prominent, nor subject-prominent; indeed, it is common for sentences to have distinct topics and subjects.

Yeah...I know that this info is important, but I want a more interesting presentation.
What's the best way to learn Japanese online?

 

[Ben Bullock]

I've been looking around the internet for Japanese lessons. I found a bunch of them (and yes, I'm aware that jref has one too), but none of them are really awesome thus far. ...
Yeah...I know that this info is important, but I want a more interesting presentation.
What's the best way to learn Japanese online?

You get what you pay for I suppose. Maybe there are not too many free websites which will meet your criteria.

 

[nekojita]

What exactly are you looking for in a textbook/learning resource?

A pretty standard textbook layout is something like this sample from Genki:
http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/pdf/l6_1.pdf

You could try things like:
Japanese in Mangaland - Wikipedia
Japanese the Manga Way - Wikipedia

Or audio/video lessons (podcasts, etc).

There's quite a lot of rubbish on the internet. I googled your first example and found this:
Nihongo o Narau - Lesson 6

That is called the masu ending. (It's pronounced like the 'moss' that grows on the ground.)

Which leaves me wondering how exactly Americans pronounce "moss"
(Never trust any written explanation of pronunciation - find audio, listen to it).

 

[Glenn]

I don't pronounce it the way they're claiming it should be pronounced. But I'm from south Louisiana. We speak a little differently here (but then again, everyone in the country speaks a little differently than everyone else, really).

 

[Yukiko chan]

You can start with this online course:

http://www.ici-japon.com/cours_japonais/?langue=anglais&PHPSESSID=21111982181b65762ed13ca7a1c1e08f

It's a shame that the English version isn't as good as the French one though...

 

[sonicsuns]

Thanks for your replies, everybody.
.
@Ben Bullock , yeah, I haven't found anything up to my standards online.
@nekojita , I actually have "Japanese the Manga Way". It's a very good book. I just wish there was stuff of that quality online.
@Yukiko chan , that course has some value, but it's still not what I'm looking for.

I actually have an idea to improve on all of this. I call it "Baka Desnay!", i.e. "baka desu ne", i.e. "idiot". Another possible title is "Japanese the Baka Way".

A while back, I made a youtube video describing this idea. I'm not allowed to post urls on this site yet, but you can just go to youtube and search "Baka Desnay". I'm the top response

It's a zany story that slowly teaches Japanese. It's about an American named Desnay Baka, who accidentally travels to Japan in a suitcase while pursuing a banana. Once he arrives, he discovers that, in Japan, your last name comes first, which means that his name is Baka Desnay! This suits him very well, as he is an incredible idiot. He's also incredibly adventurous, and has all sorts of wacky adventures. Over the course of the series/book/whatever, he very slowly learns Japanese, making every possible grammar mistake along the way.

The idea is to make Japanese instruction fun and non-technical. What do you think?

 

[Ben Bullock]

I'm not allowed to post urls on this site yet

Yeah, just go and find some crazy thread and post some kind of controversial opinions until you get 25 posts.

It's about an American named Desnay Baka, who accidentally travels to Japan in a suitcase while pursuing a banana. Once he arrives, he discovers that, in Japan, your last name comes first, which means that his name is Baka Desnay!
The idea is to make Japanese instruction fun and non-technical. What do you think?

Buck A. Yarrow was a better name.
How about "Des Bakker"?
There is an author called Alfred Aho too. How about "Des Aho"?

 

[sonicsuns]

Buck A. Yarrow was a better name.
How about "Des Bakker"?
There is an author called Alfred Aho too. How about "Des Aho"?

Yeah, that would make the name more realistic. But Baka Desnay is so unrealistic anyway (ya know, traveling to Japan in a suitcase and such) that I'm not really worried about it. Also, I've already registered bakadesnay.net

Thanks for replying, though.

 

[nekojita]

he discovers that, in Japan, your last name comes first

Actually it's quite common for (western) foreigners names to be kept in the given name, family name order.

To be frank, I'm generally suspicious of anything which uses the word "zany", and I don't think you've thought through the details. "Non-technical"/fun stuff is great as a supplement - things like graded readers, for example, but as a supplement.

For example, let's take a extremely common verb conjugation generally taught early on: the te form. You might know this already, but there are set rules on how to do this based on what the final kana of the verb is and what type of verb it is (godan and ichidan, or whatever category names you prefer). There are also irregular verbs, e.g. 窶藩??堙ｩ (kuru) goes to 窶藩??堙 (kite).

A common grammar mistake might to mix up the two types of verbs e.g. to make the te form of 窶倪?凪?堙ｩ (hashiru) 窶倪?凪?堙 ﾂ（hashite) instead of 窶倪?凪?堙≫?堙 (hasshite).

Let's say that the first time in this series that the te form is introduced you stick to a single use of it, such as ~te kudasai. Can you lay out an example of how you would handle this in your suggested format, including things like:

1) How you would explain how the te form is made and what exceptions there are
2) How you would explain how it is used (or how it is being used in the dialogue)
3) If you're having the main character make mistakes, how these will be identified as mistakes and whether or not they'll just be corrected or if the reason why he was wrong will be given.
4) If there will be exercises (with correct answers so they can be checked!) for the student to try out themselves, as in a textbook, or just lots of examples.

 

[sonicsuns]

Actually it's quite common for (western) foreigners names to be kept in the given name, family name order.

Yeah, that's true. But I figured that Dezzie (i.e. Baka Desnay) would insist on doing it the Japanese way, which just makes it funnier that he doesn't know what he's doing to his own name.

To be frank, I'm generally suspicious of anything which uses the word "zany", and I don't think you've thought through the details

You're right; plotting a Japanese instruction course is hard to do. There's a reason most courses are boring: boring is easier for the course-creators (though it's harder on the students). Making something that's zany and educational is very difficult. That's why I'm trying to get advice on this forum.

Let's say that the first time in this series that the te form is introduced you stick to a single use of it, such as ~te kudasai

Actually my first thought would be to teach the even simpler form of ~te by itself, used in simple commands/requests such as "tabete". From there, of course, it would be easy to introduce ~te kudasai

Can you lay out an example of how you would handle this in your suggested format

Obviously, everything has to build on what came before it. Since we're jumping ahead, I'll have to guess. For instance, I suppose before we got to te form we'd cover basic short form non-past tense, long form non-past tense, and the difference between u-verbs and ru-verbs, with examples etc..
Also, another note about the premise: Dezzie meets Takeshi. Takeshi is a native Japanese speaker, who intendeds to someday teach Japanese in America. He takes on Dezzie as a sort of test case. Each episode begins with Takeshi trying to teach Dezzie some language (grammar, vocab, etc.), with Dezzie typically misunderstanding. Dezzie then goes on whatever zany adventure, during which the language idea comes up somehow. At the end of the episode, Takeshi re-explains everything. Also, note that Dezzie invents strange mnemonics to memorize everything, and these mnemonics are connected with his adventures (thus making them even more memorable).

1) How you would explain how the te form is made and what exceptions there are

I'd start with ru-verbs, as those are the simplest. The audience would already know dictionary form, as that's the same as non-past short form, which is what we'll focus on to begin with. ("Taberu" instead of "Tabemasu"). Just drop the ru and add te to make a command/request. Dezzie would love the idea of ordering people around. He then goes out, yelling commands at everyone he sees, which gets him in trouble, cue zany adventure. That might be a whole episode right there.
In a later episode he'd tackle the u-verbs, which of course are more complicated. He'd invent silly mnemonics. For instance, the endings of "nu", "mu" and "bu" all conjugate to "-nde". Dezzie would no doubt point out that "te" form apparently doesn't always involve "te". He'd chalk this up to some kind of conspiracy or whatnot. Anyway,
"nu" sounds like "new"
"mu" sounds like "moo", i.e. a cow
"bu" sounds like "boo!", i.e. scaring someone, i.e. a ghost
So we have here a "new moo boo", i.e. a baby cow-ghost. Dezzie would no doubt draw a picture.
Then he'd invent some sort of creepy "n day", i.e. a day devoted to the sound of "n", or maybe "end day", like the apocalypse. In either case, this is is the day when millions of baby cow-ghosts will come to take over the earth. He quickly believes his own rantings as truth, and embarks on a zany adventure to prevent "end day". During this adventure, he repeatedly uses the ~te form of these aforementioned endings. (He believes that doing it right will activate an ancient spell to drive away the baby cow-ghosts)
More episodes would teach more endings. Eventually there would be a te form wrap-up episode reviewing all the endings, and their use as simple commands.
Once that is established, we start a similar process introducing all of the things that te-form can do besides commands.

2) How you would explain how it is used (or how it is being used in the dialogue)

Takeshi would handle the technical explanation. Various Japanese-speaking characters would use te form in dialogue, though we won't necessarily point this out each and every time it happens. The focus would be on Dezzie. Typically, when he uses language well, good stuff happens, and when he uses it poorly, bad stuff happens. (Though whatever happens is always exciting). Subtitles will be used when necessary.

3) If you're having the main character make mistakes, how these will be identified as mistakes and whether or not they'll just be corrected or if the reason why he was wrong will be given.

Sources of mistake-correction include Takeshi (who follows Dezzie around on his adventures, trying to keep him out of trouble), various characters (who react poorly when Dezzie messes something up), and subtitles, when necessary. (For instance, if Dezzie tries to intimidate people by yelling "Kawaii" when he intended "Kowaii", the words "Kawaii = Cute!" may appear in subtitles. Also, both words would be introduced in the same episode, so the audience knows the difference)

4) If there will be exercises (with correct answers so they can be checked!) for the student to try out themselves, as in a textbook, or just lots of examples.

Ideally, there would also be exercises for the student.
.
So, what do you think? Does it sound like a solid idea?

 

[nekojita]

My initial responses are:
1) This sounds like the progress rate of it is extremely slow, which I think is a bad thing. Unless these "episodes" are very very short.
2) The idea of someone running around using plain te-form to give commands to people makes me shudder with contact embarrassment. I don't see the difficulty in just telling people straight away that you should add kudasai unless you're talking to close friends/family.
3) "Takeshi would handle the technical explanation." - if you're planning to do this in dialogue, I don't see how just it being in a dialogue bubble makes it automatically any more non-technical or "fun".
4) I'm still uneasy about the idea of providing examples of hownot to do things.
What I really don't understand is, at some point (say in your round-up episode), you're going to have to give some sort of summary of all the ways the te-form is produced. Why not have that first (including mnemonics/one of those te-form songs as you please) and then have the whacky adventures part to provide the examples?
This is sort of similar to what Giles Murray did for conditionals with "If" - his stuff isn't aimed at very beginners but worth a look: Speaking-Japanese.com - Scholars of Sound Hypnotext
(although I'm annoyed at the auto-play movie that's appeared on his front page).
On the other hand, if you first teach someone 食べる→食べて and spend some time only on those types of verbs, and then at later point tell them that actually this doesn't apply for cases like 走る, and then finally explain that 来る・する are exceptions to both the above rules, I think people will easily become frustrated. You need to give that information up front, in some sort of form that's easy to refer back to.
I'm a big fan of using real life material; in an evening class I took we used pamphlets from actual tourist attractions, real railway timetables, etc, and made fake travel plans with them.
And so if in teaching one piece of grammar can you use/show things taken from real life, whether it's things such as this or this, or actual examples from manga or light novels, I think that is ideal. After all, that's usually the greatest frustration for beginners - that real life Japanese is full of things their textbook hasn't covered - and that's the benefit of the "Manga Way" type books.
Most textbooks, on the other hand, create level-appropriate dialogues/reading practices/etc. A lot of these focus on real-life situations like buying souvenirs or making travel plans, and sure, some of them are rather dull, but I think what you're describing rather goes too far the opposite way - surely that's a rather complicated way of making a mnenomic - you have to make the connection between む、ぬ、ぶ to English words that sort of sound similar, and then from those to "baby cow-ghosts" and "end day", and if "baby cow-ghosts end day" is what you remember, how from that do you get back to しぬ → しんで?
This has gotten way too long already so I'll stop there. I think the best thing you could do now would be to try and actually write one of these episodes - at least the explanation part, which is going to be the hardest.

 

[sonicsuns]

My initial responses are:
1) This sounds like the progress rate of it is extremely slow, which I think is a bad thing. Unless these "episodes" are very very short.

I'm thinking less than 5 minutes per episode.

The idea of someone running around using plain te-form to give commands to people makes me shudder with contact embarrassment.

That's kindof the idea. Dezzie does embarrassing things.

I don't see the difficulty in just telling people straight away that you should add kudasai unless you're talking to close friends/family.

Well, we'd cover that too. Either immediately and/or soon after.

3) "Takeshi would handle the technical explanation." - if you're planning to do this in dialogue, I don't see how just it being in a dialogue bubble makes it automatically any more non-technical or "fun".

Well, Takeshi will only deliver as much technicality as needed. We won't be using words like "agglutinative". The fact that explanation is non-technical whenever possible is what makes things easier for the learner.

4) I'm still uneasy about the idea of providing examples of how not to do things.

That's a reasonable concern, but remember that Dezzie eventually gets things right.

What I really don't understand is, at some point (say in your round-up episode), you're going to have to give some sort of summary of all the ways the te-form is produced. Why not have that first (including mnemonics/one of those te-form songs as you please) and then have the whacky adventures part to provide the examples?

That's an option, but it seems like a little too much info all at once.

This is sort of similar to what Giles Murray did for conditionals with "If" - his stuff isn't aimed at very beginners but worth a look:

Interesting.

On the other hand, if you first teach someone 食べる→食べて and spend some time only on those types of verbs, and then at later point tell them that actually this doesn't apply for cases like 走る, and then finally explain that 来る・する are exceptions to both the above rules, I think people will easily become frustrated. You need to give that information up front, in some sort of form that's easy to refer back to.

"Some time" is only a few minutes here. And I specified that, by this point, the audience knows ru-verbs from u-verbs etc., so we can (and should) make remarks like "this is for ru-verbs only, other verbs come later".
But yes, perhaps certain things should be presented up front.

surely that's a rather complicated way of making a mnenomic - you have to make the connection between む、ぬ、ぶ to English words that sort of sound similar, and then from those to "baby cow-ghosts" and "end day", and if "baby cow-ghosts end day" is what you remember, how from that do you get back to しぬ → しんで?

It's a tricky thing. Yes, it is possible for a mnemonic to be too complicated. But I've found that complicated mnemonics can sometimes be easier to remember, because you only need to remember one detail in order for the rest to spring into place.
For example, I've always remembered ふゆ as "who you", as in, if I was lost in a blizzard, and I saw someone I didn't know, I might shout "who are you?", i.e. "who you", i.e. "ふゆ", and the fact that it's a blizzard reminds me that the word means "winter". There's a lot of detail in there for my memory to latch on to. James Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji" works on a similar idea. The character for "black" is deconstructed into a computer hovering over a fire, encouraging us to think of the black charred remains of your new (and now, useless) computer.

I think the best thing you could do now would be to try and actually write one of these episodes - at least the explanation part, which is going to be the hardest.

I have actually written one, though it starts with the very simplest concepts. (specifically, words-that-sound-like-they-do-in-english, and the word "eeto").

 

[nekojita]

We won't be using words like "agglutinative"

I think that's a bit of a strawman; no beginners textbook uses such words. If you find words like that, you're reading something intended for people studying linguistics.

a little too much info all at once.

I think you might be seriously underestimating your end users here, although if you're thinking in blocks of five minute time then you're going to whip through all this info quite quickly anyway.

The point of having all the information up from is not to say that people have to sit down and memorise the lot, it is so there's from the start some sort of reference to go back to if there's something in the examples or practice questions you don't recognise or don't understand. If you're thinking about a video format then I can see your point in that you can't infodump in the same way, but in that case what I'm talking about would go into the supplementary written materials.

Basically I'm saying this format:
1. Explanation (in simple terms and simply laid out so people can refer back to it)
2. Loads of examples
3. Loads of practice

If you want to break it up more I still think it should be:
1. Overall Explanation
2. Examples + practice
3. Examples + practice
..... (etc, for as many sections as required)
N. Examples + practice using things from all the above sections.

I still have my doubts, but then again, learning methods can be a very personal thing. If you decide to put any of the bits you've written up somewhere, I'd be interested in seeing them.

 

[sonicsuns]

I think that's a bit of a strawman; no beginners textbook uses such words.

It's true that beginners' textbooks don't use the word. But I've seen it on more than one beginners' online course.

If you're thinking about a video format then I can see your point in that you can't infodump in the same way, but in that case what I'm talking about would go into the supplementary written materials.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Supplementary stuff will use this format you've suggested.

If you decide to put any of the bits you've written up somewhere, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Thanks for your interest!
I still can't post links, but here's the Draft 1 of the Episode 1 script
(and yes, I realize this is a very small amount of instruction. It'll build up as time goes by)
(D is Dezzie, T is Takeshi, P is "pheonix", a character who knows many languages. Also, there is an octopus ("tako") named "Taco")
Episode 1
(Note: Episode 1 is preceded by Episode 0)
(Dezzie on the roof of the dorm, shouting to the world)
D: To learn Japanese, as none have learned it before!
(In his room, Takeshi hears this, and groggily wakes up)
T: hm..nan da...
(Dezzie suddenly appears in Takeshi's face)
D: TAKESHI!
(Takeshi snaps awake, startled)
T: Ah!
D: TAKESHI TAKESHI TAKESHI!
T: Baka!
D: That's my name!
T: Ug...(almost flops back into bed, but Dezzie picks him and puts him in his desk chair)
D: Come on, I wanna learn Japanese!
T: Hai, hai...er...fine, fine!
(Dezzie sits on the floor, looking up at T, expectantly)
D: Where do we start?
T: Well...(rummages through his desk, grabs a textbook and begins to read) Learning Japanese: Japanese is an agglutinative language and is distinguished by a complex system of honorifics reflecting the hierarchical nature of -
D: Boring!
T: What?
D: I wanna learn Japanese!
T: Well I'm teaching -
D: You're teaching it wrong! I wanna learn something in Japanese.
T: Well-
D: Just gimme a word! Gimme a word in Japanese
T: (thinking) eeto...
D: eeto...awesome!
T: That's not what I-
(Dezzie is drawing)
D: It's like (he shows his drawing, a large letter "A" followed by the picture of a toe), A-toe, a-toe!
(he stars dancing, pointing to the toes of his feet, alternating feet, each time he says "toe")
D: A-toe! A-toe!
T: Dezzie-
D: Hey! How do you say CD in Japanese?
T: shidi
D: How do you say DVD?
T: dibidi
d: (slightly incredulous) what about computer?
T: konpyuta
D: (more incredulous) Typewriter?
T: taipuraita
D: (very suspicious) Shortcake?
T: shyotokeiki
D: What about Banana?
T: banana
D: You don't even speak Japanese!
T: Nani? Watashi wa nihonjin yo. Da kara-
D: And now you're speaking gibberish! I'm going outside!
(Dezzie bolts out into the hall)
T: Dezzie!
(Takeshi looks down the hall to see Dezzie departing)
D: A-toe, a-toe!
T: Baka Desnay!
(Dezzie on the street, talking to bystanders as he goes)
D: Ma-ee nam-u is Baka De-su-nay
D: (Guesturing to self like Tarzan) Baka
B: H - hai, sou desu
D: (as if having a serious conversation) A-toe, a-toe
(D spots a conbini, which has a picture of food on its sign)
D: I'm gonna get some food!
(Approaching the conbini)
D: Or as they say in Japanese, A-eem go-u-ing tu geto saam fud
(enters the conbini. Pheonix is the cashier. Some Japanese people are asking him about a product. They end their conversation just as Dezzie enters, but remain in the store. Taco is in an small aquarium behind P)
P: (uncaring, to Dezzie) Hello and welcome to our store
D: (turns to P) Wow, your Japanese is amazing!
P: (smug) Well, I -
D: (gesturing to bystanders, who are talking among themselves) I mean, most of these people have an accent. But you're right on target.
P: I - what?
(Takeshi runs in, panting)
P: (to Takeshi) Irasshaima-
D: Takeshi! Hey, say something in Japanese
T: Doushite anata wa-
D: (to P) See? He's got an accent. Now you try
P: dare ka, anata wa?
D: No, no, no, do it without the accent
(pause)
P: You're an idiot.
D: See? I could understand that. Perfect Japanese!
T and P: Baka!
(bystanders are weirded out by all this)
P: I must ask you to leave.
D: Sure, but first I need a snack.
P: As a matter of fact, we have a wide variety of foods -
D: Alright, then get me a taco!
(D holds out his hand while looking the other way. Suddenly an octopus plops down on his hand. Dezzie give a shocked look while still facing the other way. Pheonix looks smug; figuring he has confused Dezzie. Dezzie turns his head and stares at Taco,)
Ta: Actually, in Japanese, tako means -
D: This...is the best taco EVER!
(Taco is surprised but pleased. Phoenix is annoyed/shocked at Dezzie's reaction)
D: Takeshi, look! I've got a pet! I'm naming him (pause) Taco! This is Taco the Taco!
T: Uh...
D: Hey, what are you doing out here anyway? Don't you know it's dangerous going out on your own? You need to work on your language skills, too. Let's go back to your room!
T: H - hai
(they leave)
(back at the room, Takeshi is setting up a video camera)
T: Dekita
D: What?
T: It's ready.
(D plays with Taco)
T: We're going to make these videos to keep track of our progress, ok?
(from perspective of video camera, Takeshi facing forward. Throughout video, accompanying graphics appear. Dezzie bolts in and out of the background)
T: Today, we learned that there are some words in Japanese that sound like words in English. Some of these have the same meaning, such as Konpyuta, keki, and banana
D: Banana!
T: But there are other words which have a different meaning than their sound. In English, "taco" is a type of food from Mexico. In Japanese, however, "tako" means "octopus
D: In Japan, they have octopus-shaped tacos. Octopus-shaped tacos!
T: Uh...anyway...the other thing we learned was "eeto". which is the Japanese word for "uh" or "um"
D: Um....Takeshi? You're forgetting my little system. (Holds up drawing again) A-toe!
T: I -
D: Hey listen for a second, I've got a whole system for these
T: A what?
D: A system! Like, for every random word, I make this little thing so I can remember.
T: (pleased) Oh, like a mnemonic!
D: Yeah, yeah, a moronic!
T: mnemonic!
D: Whatever. I figure that if the thing is really crazy, it's easier to remember, right?
T: I guess
D: That's why I call it (unveils sign and shouts it out:
Dezzie's
Absurd
Methods of
mEmorization!
T: Dame!
D: It's amazing! (leaves)
(T pauses)
T: This could be harder than I thought...
(Taco crawls across Takeshi's desk, entering from right-screen. Takeshi eyes Taco as if to say "What the heck is going on?")
Roll Credits

 

[Toritoribe]

Just tiny things

D: How do you say DVD?
T: dibidi

DVD is pronounced as "di-buidi-/dîbuidî" in Japanese, not "di-bi-di-/dîbîdî."

T: Nani? Watashi wa nihonjin yo.

Native Japanese don't say like this in this context. I would say "Ha? Ore/Boku Nihonjin da yo."

I've never seen alive octopuses sold at conbini...

So, you're trying to show "English and Japanese are different" throughout the episode?:?

 

[undrentide]

I totally agree with Toritoribe.
Plus, you should decide the rule how to transcribe Japanese words into alphabets.

shidi
dibidi
konpyuta
taipuraita
shyotokeiki

Here you omitted long vowels (which should be written either by repeating the alphabet or using accent marks.)

CD: shiidii (or shîdî or shi-di-)
DVD: dii bui dii
computer: konbyuutaa
typewriter: taipuraitaa
shortcake: shooto keeki (not keiki )

You also use English way of transcribing Japanese.
"Ma-ee nam-u is"
If you want to write "my name is" in Romaji, you should write
"mai neemu izu". If you mix two different ways, it does confuse the learners.
Besides, Only English speakers can understand that "ee" is actually to be pronounced "ii" in Japanese.
(And if Japanese people try to read "ma-ee nam-u" aloud, pronunciation will be "ma ee nen' u" which does not make sense.

 

[sonicsuns]

DVD is pronounced as "di-buidi-/dîbuidî" in Japanese, not "di-bi-di-/dîbîdî."

Thanks for the tip.

Native Japanese don't say like this in this context. I would say "Ha? Ore/Boku Nihonjin da yo."

Thanks again. One thing we really want to do is nail the native Japanese dialogue. This will be easier once I go to Japan (study abroad starting in April) and I have more access to native speakers.

So, you're trying to show "English and Japanese are different" throughout the episode?

Not exactly. Our goals are
A) Have fun with the characters
B) Teach several words that sound like they do in English, because these are probably the easiest to memorize. (Though, via taco/tako, we point out that this doesn't always work)
C) Teach "eeto", which is very versatile (you could technically use it anywhere) and easy to learn

Here you omitted long vowels (which should be written either by repeating the alphabet or using accent marks.)

Hm, you're right. We should fix that.

If you want to write "my name is" in Romaji, you should write
"mai neemu izu". If you mix two different ways, it does confuse the learners.
Besides, Only English speakers can understand that "ee" is actually to be pronounced "ii" in Japanese.

One question I faced there was how much of the accent Dezzie adopts. In the Japanese way, "is" would become "izu", but maybe Dezzie doesn't realize that yet.

But you're right, I should use a standard system to denote pronunciations.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[sonicsuns]

One note I forgot:

I've never seen alive octopuses sold at conbini...

Yeah, we know. We planned to address that question later (i.e. Pheonix had this octopus for his own purposes, not as something to sell. Or if we really need to we can change the setting from a conbini to somewhere else)

 

[inplanesight]

Online Japanese lessons

In response to the original question about learning Japanese online, I just started private lessons at nihongo-pro.com

I have tried both group and private lessons online, and for me private is definitely faster ... although more expensive, too.
Depends on your goal and your motivation. I like regular online lessons, because it helps me keep up my motivation to learn Japanese.

 

[9Tails]

I was going to make a new thread but people usually say to do a search first, so I found this older thread.

I am thinking of visiting Japan in the near future (less than 5 years) and my biggest concern is learning the language. I know it is never too early to try to learn the Japanese language. So my question is should I go with college classes or online software?

Private tutors are too expensive, college classes fit in my budget. But I heard they are slow pace and you don't really learn much. Anyone with experience here?

I work about 40 hours a week so a software or online course would work great since I can choose when I want to do it. But I heard many people don't go far because they don't really have deadlines.

I am sure the software and online tutoring are a lot better now than before so I am leaning toward that. Any input would be great.

 

[Raigoki]

for learning online... i first learn how to read Hiragana by an android app.
then i tried learning the rest on memrise.
after that, i still use memrise but i now enjoy the japaneseclass.jp
my plan of action is to learn as many japanese words i can using mnemonics,
then little by little learn how to construct proper sentences with those words.
and reading the RAW old manga will be my sort of exercise. (Those manga with hiragana/katakana translation on kanji characters)

 

[domu]

You can start with this online course:

Apprendre le japonais - Cours de japonais | Ici-Japon

It's a shame that the English version isn't as good as the French one though...

This is insane. I literally just started putting together resources to start learning Japanese (~10 minutes). Even with French as my second language, I haven't found anything as useful or easy.

Thank you so much!