Doubts On Islam

[Yukiko chan]

Well, Nichiren 's questions were about the teachings of Muhammad, not what is being done in Islamic countries nowadays (though admittedly I gave some examples from current practices in Islamic societies).
You cannot deny that Shari'a imposes a tax called "Jizia" on non Muslim residents.

 

[Hezam]

ofcourse i cant deny that but we may to not to take tax.
It's not something we must do...But we must do Zakat witch is the same to tax for the poor poeple..I and my family MUST pay Zakat for poor people one time every year so it's almost equal but notice we MUST pay Zakat.

^_*

 

[Mars Man]

Could you please explain what's the true historical accounts?

The historical accounts provided pre-Muhammadam which claim tracing back to an individual family head, namely, Abram, who had come out of Nineveh are intertwined folk legend with later Jewish theological concerns by, primarily, it seems, the Yahewists, when monotheism had begun to published more strongly over and against polytheism (maybe especially in the Post Exilic era).

Therefore, by 'historical events,' I am referring to all events which can be determined empirically, and by testing (in the main), over the course of planet earth's researchable and knowable history. Claims about any certain non-physical, center of specific and identifiable intellectual, volition, emotion, executive function (read H. sapiens) entity which is responsible for the existence of not only the H. sapiens, but all life forms on this planet (alone, for now), will have to be irrefutably validated after having been tested by all evidences; rather than taking any one's word alone, on such positive claims for such an entity.

The test of time and the evidences now in hand, most evidently and clearly have shown that while the effort to establish such a historical personage as Abram, is impossible, the god-model which is claimed to have been used by such a person, is very unlikely to have been in such an individual's mind at that time (pre-Yahweh), and that the YHWH god-model is a non-reality, thus not of any external (meaning beyond just being a figment of imagination) reality. In these ways, the most fundamental base of Muhammadan (and by extension, Islam) is not a matter of true history.

 

[Hezam]

This may be true since the Bible & Tawrat have been changed so your point is understandable.
Even if i say that Quran corrected what's changed in Bible & Tawrat it's pointless for people who are non-Muslims so i will leave it aside.

hehehe. I just dont know how to calculate but i know it started in 8th century... i am poor in math...lol ^ ^

Wait dont laugh You still are wrong,It starter in the 6th century
If you are poor in math then i doubt your info about Islam !!

Also, talking about non-faith issues in islam whichi have read book from my friend. I have more issues regarding islamic values such as unhappy marriages and polygamy which is allowed for men in islam/sharia but not in women...just because men are working and career person and sometime outside away from their family and they are susceptible to become infidel and so Islamic(arab) Way, they allowed polygamy in certain condition just to be be legal and so there is no infedelity...i find these rediculous thing. This law is very impractical especially to other (western)cultures where women have the same rights or status with men. They work and have education as the same with men.They are no longer trapped in four walled cornered homes. The same true with women in Asian countries. what are your thoughts about this?

For along time i was asking my self "How those Illegitimate sons feel ?"
They have poor life,Everyone consider them in a lower level than the Legitimate sons.
So I prefer to be Legitimate even if i am poor i can get job..etc.
As you see in the west,You can see millions of Illegitimate sons because of Zina ( Illegal relationship ).
You As pure Filipinos,Are you proud of your family ? What if you was a son of Illegal relationship ????
If any woman wants to part with her husband in Islam she can go to a court and ask for Annulment IF she has a Convincing reason.

Second, is there a holy in war? What is islamic views and actions towards people who hates either in personal or societal level?How do we find peace in times of conflict? what are ur philosophy towards this thing as far as ur belief is concerend...

Good question,It needs much time because there are too many Terms so i will post them as soon as possible.

 

[porkar]

don't call me ignorant for saying this, but I find women using these veils ugly. I think there's a reason why muslim women are generally ugly.

Maybe that is why they wear veils.

 

[Hezam]

Maybe that is why they wear veils.

more ignorance and Racism.

 

[Timeous]

Guys, can you tell me if there's anything wrong in Islam?
if there, tell me what it is
everything that you think wrong in Islam, tell me all of it

 

[Yukiko chan]

This may be true since the Bible & Tawrat have been changed so your point is understandable.
Even if i say that Quran corrected what's changed in Bible & Tawrat it's pointless for people who are non-Muslims so i will leave it aside.

I think Mars Man was also referring to the Koran when he spoke of unverifiable claims. The OT, NT, and the Koran claim that Abraham existed and was the father of monotheism. Historically (i.e. scientifically) speaking there doesn't seem to be any evidence supporting such claims, nor the authenticity of any of the stories associated to that personage.
From wikipedia:

While it is impossible to disprove the existence of Abraham, influential scholars have found the evidence adduced to support a historical reading seriously lacking:
[F]or not only has "archaeology" not proven a single event of the patriarchal tradition to be historical, it has not shown any of the traditions to be likely ... it must be concluded that any such historicity as is commonly spoken of in both scholarly and popular works about the patriarchs of Genesis is hardly possible and totally improbable. (p. 328)

For along time i was asking my self "How those Illegitimate sons feel ?"
They have poor life,Everyone consider them in a lower level than the Legitimate sons.
So I prefer to be Legitimate even if i am poor i can get job..etc.
As you see in the west,You can see millions of Illegitimate sons because of Zina ( Illegal relationship ).
You As pure Filipinos,Are you proud of your family ? What if you was a son of Illegal relationship ????
If any woman wants to part with her husband in Islam she can go to a court and ask for Annulment IF she has a Convincing reason.

That's your own narrow take on things, which could be true in your society but may not be in another. Children born out of non marital sex aren't viewed as illegitimate nor lower everywhere, nor are such sexual intercourses always frowned upon. In the end it's just a matter of social conventions and moral references which largely differ between societies, communities and individuals.

 

[porkar]

more ignorance and Racism.

No, just a matter of opinion.

 

[Yukiko chan]

Guys, can you tell me if there's anything wrong in Islam?
if there, tell me what it is
everything that you think wrong in Islam, tell me all of it

Are you sure you want to get me started on that?

 

[Hezam]

If anyone wants to discuss this topic please make it in a polite way...
Thank you.

 

[Mars Man]

If anyone wants to discuss this topic please make it in a polite way...
Thank you.

Yes, I will second the motion, being polite in our discourse and discussion is a big positive; and add, that it would also be more beneficial to be thorough and careful with the data. What that will entail, more than anything else, we would soon enough come to discover, is that emotional disposition with any tendency to automatically reject, or disregard, more secure and factual datum, must also be put under control.

With this additional request, Hezam san, I am not trying to single you out, in any way at all, but am simply offerring a better framework (structure of discussion procedure which would lead to a more productive and positive-in-outcome result) for all, and along with that also fully realize that any who happen to be a believer within any religious belief-system framework, will tend to allow emotion to override executive logic process.

Yes, you are correct, ZvI (if I may, please), by going back to the base for all of the Abrahamic system branches, I was also covering the preliminary assumptions made by Muhammad leading up to his initial message. This is a matter of the greatest concern, actually. What it amounts too, in short, is that the most emotionaly stemmed foundational claim for any activity or belief within the Muslim system, just as in the Christian and Jewish systems, is a non-reality (externally). Notwithstanding the matter that the god-models are, in fact, different, the very said history espoused is more carefully seen as hardly being worthy of being considered actually history. This is one major doubt which can be pinned on (and not only, as has been pointed out) Islam.

Another doubt then comes to mind; speaking of the devil...(hee, hee, hee...so many English colloqualisms [things of enriched emotional expression] are religious belief-system based from Judeo-Christian lineage) and that is mind based. The belief that a mind is something that comes into existence, and then continues, as is, on into some non-physical realm--such as 'heaven' is always asserted to be--is a big doubt which can also be pinned on ,not only, but also, Islam.

 

[Hime]

Its interesting how Islam is attacked brutality recently everywhere, yet its the most growing religion now !!!

 

[Yukiko chan]

Its interesting how Islam is attacked brutality recently everywhere, yet its the most growing religion now !!!

Can you give examples of "brutal attacks" on Islam?

Islam may be one of the fastest growing religions in the world, but it is disputed whether it's the fastest. Figures aren't always accurate, and political agendas may purposefully deform them. Besides, many survey results I've seen don't take into account the non religious population which may be the fastest growing according to some.

An interesting wiki article on the subject.

 

[Mycernius]

Wait dont laugh You still are wrong,It starter in the 6th century
If you are poor in math then i doubt your info about Islam !!

Pedant mode on.
Mohammad was born c.570/571 and died in 8th june 632. He didn't get his first revalation until he was 40, which would have been in 610/611, which is the 7th century. Islam, therefore began in the 7th century.

Guys, can you tell me if there's anything wrong in Islam?
if there, tell me what it is
everything that you think wrong in Islam, tell me all of it

How about the mistreatment of women for starters. Death for apostasy, the idea of a reward for suicide bombers. The idea that there is a magic sky daddy with no evidence(mind you that goes for religion in general)
Tell the turth, is this a raod you really want to go down?

Its interesting how Islam is attacked brutality recently everywhere, yet its the most growing religion now !!!

What is also noticable is that Islamic countries also have a higher birth rate than Jewish and christian countries. Having more babies is a way to grow a religion, but being bought up and indoctrinated along with threats of death if you leave make people keep quiet if they think their religion is crap.

 

[Hime]

Can you give examples of "brutal attacks" on Islam?

Examples? we wont go far, lets see the very recent events.
- France, Italy, Denmark and their ban efforts for the face veil....yet claim to be tolerating! check the BBC site and you will see.
- Switzerland: They are working on banning building the minarets of mosques!
- See how Islam is attacked in many sites
- See how the western Media is careful to ruin the Islam image to the world.

Islam may be one of the fastest growing religions in the world, but it is disputed whether it's the fastest. Figures aren't always accurate, and political agendas may purposefully deform them. Besides, many survey results I've seen don't take into account the non religious population which may be the fastest growing according to some.

An interesting wiki article on the subject.

Do you think that Wikipedia will be honest on that? Actually I don't trust Wikipedia when it comes to anything regard religions in general. Keep in mind that not all the cases of conversion to Islam is recorded, so many of them are just done in mosques and many hide it so they wont be abused by their families.

What is also noticable is that Islamic countries also have a higher birth rate than Jewish and christian countries. Having more babies is a way to grow a religion, but being bought up and indoctrinated along with threats of death if you leave make people keep quiet if they think their religion is crap.

Not only because of the birth rate, nor because of the immigration. I mean in terms of the converts number everyday. Its interesting that this hate for Islam around the world made many people searched about Islam and know its true image hence embrace Islam.
Just go to youtube, and type something like "Muslim revert story" and hear how people are embracing Islam.

 

[Hezam]

Pedant mode on.

:eek2:

Mohammad was born c.570/571 and died in 8th june 632. He didn't get his first revalation until he was 40, which would have been in 610/611, which is the 7th century. Islam, therefore began in the 7th century.

i thought 600-699 counts in the 6 century.

Can you give examples of "brutal attacks" on Islam?

This is the most stupid thing i read here,So please you give me an example.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Hezm, the 1st Century was 0 - 99 AD, so 600 - 699 is the 7th Century. And, is calling someone else's comment "stupid" an example of the politeness you called for? I also don't know what "brutal attacks" you refer to. Is a cartoon mocking your prophet considered "brutal" in your view?

Europe does seem determined to ban the accoutrements of Islam (e.g., minarets, veils), and I'm not sure why. Too many unassimilated Muslims loudly demanding Sharia law, after moving to someone else's country? I don't know.

In the US there is currently a lot of anti-Muslim bias among the people, due to 9/11 and other terrorist acts committed by radical Muslims; but there is no movement to ban Islam or its trappings.

 

[Hezam]

Hezm, the 1st Century was 0 - 99 AD, so 600 - 699 is the 7th Century.

Yes i got it,thans.

And, is calling someone else's comment "stupid" an example of the politeness you called for?

If you know what he means by "brutal attacks" you will find it very stupid so please let's wait for the "brutal attacks" examples.
Actually i dont want to turn this thread to Islam-Christianity comparison cuz this is not what this thread posted for.
Zoon van Ijs,If you want a comparison then post it in another thread but i advise you to not to do.

Europe does seem determined to ban the accoutrements of Islam (e.g., minarets, veils), and I'm not sure why. Too many unassimilated Muslims loudly demanding Sharia law, after moving to someone else's country? I don't know.

I completely agree with you,If you move to another country then you have to agree their rules,But you know europe claimed that they give you the freedom to do/wear/think like you want so we can blame them for banning the veil,right?

In the US there is currently a lot of anti-Muslim bias among the people, due to 9/11 and other terrorist acts committed by radical Muslims; but there is no movement to ban Islam or its trappings.

sounds like they really did ! What about Afghanistan,Iraq ?? they killed Hundreds of thousands Muslims !
look at Guantánamo & Abu Ghraib prison !!!

Again,If anyone is interested in crimes please not here.

 

[Mycernius]

Not only because of the birth rate, nor because of the immigration. I mean in terms of the converts number everyday. Its interesting that this hate for Islam around the world made many people searched about Islam and know its true image hence embrace Islam.
Just go to youtube, and type something like "Muslim revert story" and hear how people are embracing Islam.

There are also converts to other religions. Scientologists claim that theirs is the fastest growing religion in the world. Still doesn't stop it from being a bunch of lies and wingnuttery of the heighest order. Mind you in the charts of wingnuttery in religion Scientology and Mormonism rate near the top.
I can also provide you with muslims that have left islam.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
Just because people join a group doesn't mean that it is true. The biggest one for any religion is lack of evidence. Along with that you have inconsistant scripture and bizzare to dangerous ideas, again prevalent in most religions.
If scripture is true then you wouldn't need apologetics. Unfortunately islam, judaism and christianity have them in abundance, each one showing exactly why theirs is the true religion, why the others are wrong and why the mistakes in scripture aren't really mistakes, but being read wrong. You would think that an all knowing magical sky fairy would know this and put it into plain and simple language so that there would be no arguement on the issues, but we find that isn't so. That makes god either incompetant, a liar or, shock horror, doesn't exist. You can probably guess on which side I come down on. One thing it ain't is all knowing, all powerful, onmipotent, merciful (ha!) and forgiving.

What type of psychotic, malevolent, vain, petty tyrant would come up with the idea of a place of punishment for eternity just because people don't wish to believe in it because it gaves us free will to be able to do that? Answer: God

 

[Yukiko chan]

I'm too tired to write a long post; tomorrow maybe.

This is the most stupid thing i read here,So please you give me an example.

As RolandtheHeadless said, though it may seem clear to you, the expression "brutal attacks" is too vague to mean anything. As far as I can understand from readings and such, we Westerners have very different conceptions of religion, its role in life, etc... from the way religion is viewed in the Middle-east. Thus what you may think of as a "brutal attack" may not be considered, by a Westerner, as an attack in the first place. I still can't understand why the drawings of Muhammad triggered so much commotion and anger among the Muslims! I've seen much more offensive stuff done with Christian symbols (including the person of Jesus Christ)...

Which is why I was asking for clarification, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Hezam]

Oh damn it..i thought you have some examples for Islamic "brutal attack" but you asked for clarification >_<
Sorry.

Edit: Can you give examples of "brutal attacks" on Islam?
You mean "brutal attack" On muslims in the past/present ?

 

[Yukiko chan]

Oh damn it..i thought you have some examples for Islamic "brutal attack" but you asked for clarification >_<
Sorry.

Edit: Can you give examples of "brutal attacks" on Islam?
You mean "brutal attack" On muslims in the past/present ?

Yup, that's what I meant, i.e. examples of non Muslims attacking Muslims.

I figured it would be just a misunderstanding.

 

[Hezam]

I am so sorry....hazukashii >_<
It will take hours so i will post it 5 hours later,i am collecting the info.
Sorry again,

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I think that a long history of "brutal attacks," if you're thinking of going all the way back to the Crusades, would be less useful to my own understanding than current examples.

There have been very, very few real incidents of hate crimes (if that's what you mean by "brutal attacks") against Muslims in the US.