Japanese forms of you
- Thread starter whitemann
- Start date
- 8 Aug 2005
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What book are you reading?
Between people who are close together, there are a few pronouns that can be used. Just the ones you've listed:
anata - relatively gender-neutral, but more feminine than the others. In relationships, it's often used by the female in regards to the male (such as the English use of "dear").
kimi - more masculine, has kind of a "talking down" tone to it (not in a negative sense, per se; I'm sure you've read about Japanese levels of politeness and the vertical social orientation). This word is often found in lyrics. It's also used in the office by superiors when talking to their subordinates.
omae - even more masculine; I've been told that a guy using this when talking to his girl denotes almost a sense of ownership (this hasn't been corroborated by anyone, so it could be mistaken), but it's more what the macho guys will use (or the guys trying to sound macho). Guys will also use this amongst friends playfully, or insultingly depending on the tone. This is used a lot in anime, apparently, along with other ultra-masculine forms like temae and kisama.
Generally, for most social situations, you'll want to avoid saying "you" altogether. Stick to using their name with the appropriate suffix.
Between people who are close together, there are a few pronouns that can be used. Just the ones you've listed:
anata - relatively gender-neutral, but more feminine than the others. In relationships, it's often used by the female in regards to the male (such as the English use of "dear").
kimi - more masculine, has kind of a "talking down" tone to it (not in a negative sense, per se; I'm sure you've read about Japanese levels of politeness and the vertical social orientation). This word is often found in lyrics. It's also used in the office by superiors when talking to their subordinates.
omae - even more masculine; I've been told that a guy using this when talking to his girl denotes almost a sense of ownership (this hasn't been corroborated by anyone, so it could be mistaken), but it's more what the macho guys will use (or the guys trying to sound macho). Guys will also use this amongst friends playfully, or insultingly depending on the tone. This is used a lot in anime, apparently, along with other ultra-masculine forms like temae and kisama.
Generally, for most social situations, you'll want to avoid saying "you" altogether. Stick to using their name with the appropriate suffix.
Anata:
1) I am male but I would still use this pronoun for the people of similar age as this sounds politer than the other pronouns.
2)Maybe used when I am in a situation where my words should not carry any of my feelings toward the addressed or when I simply don't know his/her name
3)A wife may use this pronoun to talk to her husband but it sounds old fashioned.
Omae:
Commonly used among young people. Depending on a group of people that you hang around with, this pronoun may be preferred over Anata: It would be very hard to find a High school or Uni student who don't use "Omae".
What nice guizin posted is right, but nowadays maybe the pronoun does not necessarily carry as much weight as it used to: I am relatively young but the language spoken by some younger generation of people... oh, the world is moving on for sure!!
Resister wise, Omae is very casual pronoun and mostly used for addressing to younger or less respectable people. However, like "your humble servant" was used similar to "your best friend", people drop formalities or pretend to do so in order to emphasise closeness.
To think about it, it indeed is pretty convoluted because people could use Omae to mean:
1) You don't deserve my respect `$&#
2) You are my pal
3) You are on the same league as me
4) You are younger and I am responsible to look after you.
5) You are below me, so don't you dare talking back to me. Just say Yes Sir!!
6) You and I are so close (married etc) that we drop formalities
7) varies among individuals...
kimi
Should not be used to older people.
It has been used commonly and we hardly ever find people who make fuss over. However, I would personally never use this; it does not sound civil enough to me.
1) I am male but I would still use this pronoun for the people of similar age as this sounds politer than the other pronouns.
2)Maybe used when I am in a situation where my words should not carry any of my feelings toward the addressed or when I simply don't know his/her name
3)A wife may use this pronoun to talk to her husband but it sounds old fashioned.
Omae:
Commonly used among young people. Depending on a group of people that you hang around with, this pronoun may be preferred over Anata: It would be very hard to find a High school or Uni student who don't use "Omae".
What nice guizin posted is right, but nowadays maybe the pronoun does not necessarily carry as much weight as it used to: I am relatively young but the language spoken by some younger generation of people... oh, the world is moving on for sure!!
Omae can be used for that sort of nuance but not only for that.
Resister wise, Omae is very casual pronoun and mostly used for addressing to younger or less respectable people. However, like "your humble servant" was used similar to "your best friend", people drop formalities or pretend to do so in order to emphasise closeness.
To think about it, it indeed is pretty convoluted because people could use Omae to mean:
1) You don't deserve my respect `$&#
2) You are my pal
3) You are on the same league as me
4) You are younger and I am responsible to look after you.
5) You are below me, so don't you dare talking back to me. Just say Yes Sir!!
6) You and I are so close (married etc) that we drop formalities
7) varies among individuals...
kimi
Should not be used to older people.
It has been used commonly and we hardly ever find people who make fuss over. However, I would personally never use this; it does not sound civil enough to me.
Elizabeth
先輩
- 22 Apr 2003
- 9,839
- 135
There's no near perfect English translation of anata or kimi either. I once saw a wife call her husband omaesan, but I feel this might be unusual. Although for a foreigner's benefit they're all basically casually colored in conversational contexts as 同輩か目下には使われている言葉。。。
それとも、お前さんは 古い言葉づかいですか？ 近世（江戸時代）の遊女語、太夫の特殊な話し方などに本当に興 味があるからね。
There's no near perfect English translation of anata or kimi either. I once saw a wife call her husband omaesan, but I feel this might be unusual. Although for a foreigner's benefit they're all basically casually colored in conversational contexts as 同輩か目下には使われている言葉。。。
それとも、お前さんは 古い言葉づかいですか？ 近世（江戸時代）の遊女語、太夫の特殊な話し方などに本当に興 味があるからね。
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn/26950/m0u/おま/
# 〔「おまえさま」の転〕二人称。
* (1)親しみの気持ちをこめて自分より下の人を呼ぶ語
* (2)妻が夫を呼ぶ語。
o 「―、帰りにパンを買ってきて」
* (3)相手を敬っていう語。近世、一般社会でも遊里でもあ pいられ、かなり高い敬意を表した。
o 「―にはちとおあつうございませう/滑稽本・浮世風呂 2」
と書かれていますが、実際には解りません。
日本は元々（もともと）は小さなたくさんの国の集まり です。百年も遡る（さかのぼる）と地域毎（ごとで）で 方言が強すぎて、communication をとる事は難しかっあ ｽでしょう。
"本当に広く "お前さん" が使われていたか？"と 聞かれると、"時代劇や小説でよく使われているので、 昔の人が使っていたような気がする。" と答えるしか ありません。
Elizabeth
先輩
- 22 Apr 2003
- 9,839
- 135
そうですね。 仲間言葉のために吉原中でも上を下への大混乱だったか も知れません。
私が読んでいる漫画では、高級遊女にも、「お前さん」 は、尊敬などを指す言葉だけだから。
太夫の郭言葉は、女房詞のようなものだったという風に英語の本に書いてある けど。。
undrentide
Japa'n vagyok
- 18 Jan 2006
- 3,652
- 310
そうですね。 仲間言葉のために吉原中でも上を下への大混乱だったか も知れません。
私が読んでいる漫画では、高級遊女にも、「お前さん」 は、尊敬などを指す言葉だけだから。
太夫の郭言葉は、女房詞のようなものだったという風に英語の本に書いてある けど。。
郭言葉は花魁たちがたちがいろいろな地方出身だったた めにそれを隠すために作り出された、という話をきいた ことがあります。
お前さんというのは江戸の庶民の言葉じゃないかな。
落語にもよくでてきますね。おかみさん（妻）が夫を呼 ぶときなんかに。
山本一力の小説や杉浦日向子のエッセイを読むと面白い ですよ。
山本一力は江戸の庶民にまつわる小説が多く、杉浦日向子は江戸が大好きでいろいろ調べたことを本にしています。
それから、江戸時代のいろんな身分（武士、町人、公家）の言葉遣い に興味があるなら
よしながふみの『大奥』（マンガです）が面白いですよ 。
よく調べて書いているな～と思います。
