WHAT IS A GEISHA? For my psychology class.

How do you view the Geisha as?

  • Artists and entertainers (Japanese American)

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • Artists and entertainers (Japanese)

    Votes: 14 56.0%
  • Highly paid prostitutes (Japanese American)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Highly paid prostitutes (Japanese)

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Both (Japanese American)

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Both (Japanese)

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Total voters
    25
Have any of you read the book 'Memoirs of a Geisha'?
It is very different to the movie. The book is written by a person who managed to get an ex-geisha to tell her story.
The film is changed a lot, both to cut it down and to stop it being really boring.
I found the book a good read! The movie was 'pants' as i've heard americans say...
 
The woman who lived in former prime minister Kakuei Tanaka's shadow has broken her silence - and a geisha's code of discretion - to reveal his foibles and faults in an autobiography that is proving a bestseller in Japan.

At 77, Kazuko Tsuji has broken a geisha's code of discretion

In a purple and gold kimono and with her hair swept back, 77-year-old Kazuko Tsuji says she called the man who was toppled from power by the Lockheed scandal oto-san, the respectful Japanese term for father, but Tanaka never gave her any presents during their 47-year relationship and was "very quick to raise his hand"...................
http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=7118

I think there were many Geishas behind Politicians.
Geishas were sometime educater of politisian, supporter, lover ,wire puller or spy....Because Japaese politics was decided in Ryotei(窶板ソ窶凖?ツ)before
 
Erm.. I think its important to remember that in society.. words have a literal meaning. and a "commonly known" meaning.

I think the general idea outside of japan is that "geisha" = "prositute"

of course is also possible that there are cultural differences..

One culture views burping as rude... yet, in other cases its curtasy to burp after a meal.. I think that might be how "geisha" kinda comes out..

Of course there was something else.. I think it was called burlesk in america.. it wasn't "porn" or "prositution" but, it was right on the edge.. It was right on the edge of being sexual but, didn't quite show anything.. maybe thats where geisha falls.. hard to say.
 
Back in January I did a commercial (I act part time). In the commercial, two Maiko (apprentice geisha) swoon and grope some good looking man. Nothing X-rated, just a little provocative.

During the filming - which was done on the streets of Kyoto in the Gion district - an old Japanese woman was watching. After about 15 minutes she lost her temper and started yelling at the director. "Real Maiko would never act in such a horrible way!" The director (who was Japanese) then spent about 20 minutes apologizing for the contents of the commercial!
 
Have any of you read the book 'Memoirs of a Geisha'?
It is very different to the movie. The book is written by a person who managed to get an ex-geisha to tell her story.
The film is changed a lot, both to cut it down and to stop it being really boring.
I found the book a good read! The movie was 'pants' as i've heard americans say...


I've read the book and i've seen the movie, and i wouldn't say they are very different at all.

The person who read the book is a guy called Arthur Golden, and the "ex" geisha he managed to get to sell her story is incorrect. The geisha is called Mineko Iwasaki and she used to trust Arthur Golden, when he met her he wanted her to help him write his geisha novel and she wanted him as a westerner to write an accurate portrayal of the lives of geisha in the past.
However, Golden was more interested in writing an inaccurate but best-selling story rather than writing an accurate but less well selling story, so he basically only included the info which pleased him and filled in the gaps with his own opinions and assumptions as he went along.

Memoirs of a Geisha is not the real story of Mineko Iwasaki at all, Arthur merely based certain events of his fictional geisha Sayuri's story on the real life of the real geisha Mineko Iwasaki. Even with the events he copied from Mineko's life, he didn't even depict some of those accurately- for example the character Hatsumomo in MOG was supposed to be based on the older geisha sister of Mineko, However Golden portrayed Hatsumomo as a tyrant in Sayuri's life who caused no end of harm to Sayuri- in reality Mineko's older sister was supposed to have been a strict traditional geisha, however according to Mineko, growing up with her older sister was a positive experience rather than the negative one portrayed between Hatsumomo and Sayuri in MOG.

Regardless of what information Arthur gained from Mineko, he broke their contract together (he was not supposed to tell everyone that she had helped him in his book) and he used the info he gained from Mineko to his own self-centered profit based aims. Mineko Iwasaki, issued court papers in America to sue him for "misrepresenting her profession". Though the book was supposed to be fictional, it seems that Arthur Golden over-embellished the truth to boost the interest Western readers would have in the book.
Mineko's reputation was destroyed by Arthur Golden, she was basically ostracized from the geisha community and she was even sent anonymous letters by people telling her to kill herself to repent for her shame etc. Mineko was so hurt by the events surrounded by Arthur Golden, she ended up writing her own book about her real life story in an attempt to set the record straight.
If you are interested in reading the life story of a real geisha (rather than some fictional stereotypical geisha novel written by a white American man), then i advise you read "Geisha : A Life" by Mineko Iwasaki herself.


Either way though, Memoirs of a Geisha is set in the Meiji to early Showa periods of Japan- the lives of Geisha have changed since these times, so even if Memoirs of a Geisha was an accurate story, it is irrelevant to the lives of Geisha today.
My personal view of Geisha is that they are artisans- Geisha do not sell sex. Geisha are highly trained, skilled and talented independent women who preserve many of the old traditions of Japan in their work/day-to-day lives. Their job is to primarily entertain their clients using their skills/talents, like their skill/talent for witty and enjoyable conversation, and by their arts like dancing, music and calligraphy etc. A geisha's life is hard and demands a lot of her time and energy from her is she is to succeed (for example Maiko which are apprentice geisha, often only have on average 4hrs sleep a night and 2days off a month on average and their training can last over 3years etc, and is very grueling and difficult for young modern Japanese girls to adjust to etc).
I have total respect to geisha and maiko and their traditions and ways of life fascinate me a lot 👍 .
 
To get an idea of what the difference between a geisha and a courtesan you shoud visit immortal geisha. actually, Tokis-phoenix, hatsumomo was based on ,yaeko, minekos reallife big sister, and geisha onee-san, who blamed mineko for her sons death. yaeko was actually always bitter towards her parents for putting her in the hanamachi. but yes it is true how cruel it was for that man to twist her story.i mean no disrespect or anything just adding to the topic. and anyone who says geisha are prostitutes is stupid. one good way to find the difference between tayuu and geisha is to see the way they dress and the hand they hold the kimono in. Also i read that someone said prostitutes were sold into the hanamachi, thay were sold in to the red-light district, or kagai.
 
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actually, Tokis-phoenix, hatsumomo was based on ,yaeko, minekos reallife big sister, and geisha onee-san, who blamed mineko for her sons death.

Yeah i accidentally said "geisha sister" instead of just "older sister", whoops 😌 .
 
GEISHA again...

INJU, a French movie, by Barbet Shroeder at the Venice Film Festival

In the original novel, Inju, was his greatest novel (I believe) written by Rampo Edogawa about 80 years ago, and the main character was not Geisha, but Hitozuma, a married woman.

http://www.inju-lefilm.com/presse-inju.html
The brochure is available in English (About 2MB)
 
In my opinion, I do not think we will ever get the true story behind a Geisha's life. If the inside-secrative realities were like the book claims, it would spoil the mystery and artistry of Geisha's outer image. I could see how keeping a secrative lifestyle secret would benifit and protect Geisha as well as the Japanese culture. If it were suddenly exposed that Geisha were "comfort women" for rich businessmen, it could be very damaging to culture and history of Geisha.
 
In my opinion, I do not think we will ever get the true story behind a Geisha's life. If the inside-secrative realities were like the book claims, it would spoil the mystery and artistry of Geisha's outer image. I could see how keeping a secrative lifestyle secret would benifit and protect Geisha as well as the Japanese culture. If it were suddenly exposed that Geisha were "comfort women" for rich businessmen, it could be very damaging to culture and history of Geisha.


I think one of the problems is that geisha today are quite fundamentally different from the geisha in the past i.e. post 1958 and pre 1958 geisha.

Many geisha in the past started their lives in the flower and willow world after having been sold by their impoverished parents to okiya's/geisha houses. These girls became geisha because they had little other choice, some of their lives were quite miserable- for example, for as long as they were geisha they were not allowed to marry (they could have children, however many didn't due to the difficulties of raising a child in their environment), until they payed off their debts to their okiya they were also not allowed to choose who they wanted to be with (i.e. boyfriend/lover) freely, and if they weren't able to foster a good reputation they could expect no money/business and could only expect a lonely miserable and hard existence etc.

However they were of course many women who were happy being geisha- hardships for peasants in olden Japan were extremely harsh and the path to becoming a geisha offered girls a chance to rise above their dire poverty, a chance to afford expensive things like beautiful kimono and makeup, a chance to live a life without having to get married and a chance to eventually (if they were successful) have a decent amount of power over their own lives, work/business and destiny. It was a very strict life and the training was rigorous, hard and very long, but at times it was certainly easier to be a geisha than to be a peasant.

Its probably true that Mizuage/the selling of virginity did use to be practiced in the olden days, however although it wasn't technically mandatory, it does appear that many maiko (apprentice geisha) did do it because the potentially vast sums of money that could be made from it could seriously help the maiko pay off her debts and set her up for a more successful and independent career as a geisha.
And its true that many geisha probably did sleep with their patrons as a way of securing their patrons desire for her- a patron (i.e. guy who spends a great amount of money on his geisha in return for having a more intimate/personal part in her life) was vital to a geisha's success if she was to be able to afford the upkeep of her lavish lifestyle and remain popular and successful. But sleeping with a patron was never officially part of the deal and a geisha did not have to do it if she didn't want to.
Geisha were not prostitutes though- their appeal was in their beauty, intelligence and wit, as models, numerous talents like singing and dancing, and services like the service of banquets, social festivities and weddings etc.


Geisha today are fundamentally different in certain respects from the geisha of old because;

a. Geisha/maiko today are not sold into the profession by their parents.
b. They do not sell their virginity or any similar such thing.
c. Almost all maiko's today are in their mid to late teens when they start and are not children (because Japan made a law that makes girls attend school ("Parents are obliged to have their children whose ages are between six and fifteen receive six years of primary education and three years of secondary education at schools which are authorized by the government").
d. There is a very strict code of dress with maiko and geisha today (in an effort to preserve the image), while in the past the codes of dress were a lot more relaxed and experimental.
e. Geisha were cheaper to hang around with in the past- they have always been expensive, but due to their declined numbers (and the decline of many other professions closely connected to them) over the last century they have been forced to increase their prices to keep their business profitable.

etc.

The women who are geisha today are largely there in certain respects to keep the traditions alive (even though on the whole the profession is largely dying out), in some respects they are merely a facade/face of the geisha of the past. Japan's attempts to preserve their image and traditions/profession has ended up creating a geisha/maiko who is different from the ones that lived in the past.

Modern day geisha will almost always vehementally deny any connection in their profession to ancient practices like mizuage largely because despite it not been practiced for half a century now, geisha are still very misunderstood and the unfounded belief from foreigners that geisha are basically prostitutes has done their profession a great deal of damage and given many geisha a lot of unwanted attention from ignorant men. It might be true that it used to go on, but in their eye's there's nothing positive/understanding to be gained from admitting to stuff like that.
Its likely that Mizuage did used to go on in the olden days though as numerous ancient geisha have attested to this (like Teruha) and certain old documents also seem to agree. It doesn't really matter though either way as its long in the past now and is not relevant any longer to the lives of geisha today.
 
They are what their name say.

What's their name?

芸者

What does it mean?

Artist.

So, they are artist.

Whereas "prostitute" in Japanese language is 愛妾「あいしょう」.

Nothing to do with the word 芸者.

It's just a cultural profession.

In Spain we have the insane and stupid cultural tradition of "bull-fighting show".

I would like to have in Spain beauty cultural traditions like Japanese's Geisha instead of having fun in killing animals.
 
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