West, East and Japan

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

Western people state their feelings obviously, but mostly with exaggerated words. Sometimes when they are not true, I mean not from heart but from mouth just.

Eastern people mainly try to keep their feelings, avoiding revelation. Because, they believe that as long as you keep it in your heart, it is worthy. When you talk it out, it is already worthless.

Today, you can't find in Japanese culture and people mentioning love much. It was more strict and hard in the past. "I love you" sentence is not as commonas in the west.

Nowadays, of course, as in other countries, moral thaw and resolution extends very fast in Japan. The government and other authorities are worried of it and looking for solitions temporary at least if not final.

Regrads,

 

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

Freedom; if it is not limited, it is destructive rather than constructive.

Western people push such freedom to eastern countries. Eastern people accepted it somehow and trying to get rid of it at the moment. Because, it brought crimes with it together such as adultery, gambling, killing, individualism, materialism etc. Eastern people lost many things when they tried to adopt to western culture and apply western values to their societies. But no one paid attention that every value is valueable in its own place and country.

Japan is suffering now to keep its own values. It has already lost a lot of them. But is it possible to return the ones it lost and keep the remain ones?

Regards,

 

[nice gaijin]

Japan is suffering now to keep its own values. It has already lost a lot of them. But is it possible to return the ones it lost and keep the remain ones?

Sorry, could you be a bit more specific?

 

[Emoni]

Sorry, could you be a bit more specific?

"A bit" is putting it awfully nicely...

 

[Goldiegirl]

All the evils in the world have been around before there were "western" countries. Read up on your history....read the bible...lot's of nasty accounts in there and get this....there wasn't a USA or a Europe.

 

[Saifullah Samurai]

well the middle east was once a cradle of civilisation, like the ancient egyptians, phonecians, persians, babylonians etc... they were well developed for their times and there is a lot of history on them to read about.

And then u have the ancient greeks and romans with their abundent history too.

Its important to realise that evil knows no colour or race or nation in particular u have good and bad everywhere.

 

[humbleservant]

I'm getting quite fed up of people going on about "westerner" countries, and "western" customs... what a load of generalistic, racist nonsense.

*phew!*

ok, I will calm down a bit

ok, so I recently wrote a dissertation on the reasons that the "war on terror" was not being won... and one of the main ones, I surmised, was that there was a great tendency within the Bush administration to talk about "Muslim culture". "Muslim people" and "Islamic states"... basically, their error was that they failed to realise that the massive and diverse group of peoples and countries spreading from Morroco to Brunei was not homogenous.

Japanese people are often criticised, and indeed there are articles on this very website on this topic, for asuming all "Westerners" are Americans...

you Ebu, are making a similar error.

there is no "western" world... many African nations consider consider Japan to be a western country because when they say "western" they mean modern industrial/post-industrial democracy.

what I suspect you mean Ebu, is not "western" but Caucasian-Capitalist-Democracy... if that is what you mean be more explicit... if it is not, then please be more clear about which group of people/countries/cultures you are attempting to villify.

and when you compare easterners with westerners, do you really mean to suggest that the culture and status of a country such a japan has more in common with Mongolia than with the USA? what rubbish! japan, and the tiger economies (SKorea, Singapore, HongKong) and the people who live in them are more likely to share ideals with other richer countries because the have similar GDPs, than with other countries that they may be more genetically similar to. to prove this just compare how many Japanese are comfortable emmigrating to europe or the USA compared to Mongolia!

I also find it interesting that you lump individualism and materialism in with your list of sins/corruptions... is individualism not the ability to vote freely? are you saying this is wrong? is materialism not the ability to provide the quality of life you wish to your family?

I suspect you are guilty of using "the west" as a convenient "bad guy" to hang your own disillusionment upon... the west is not a political entity, nor is it a cultural one... a scot, a frenchman, a californian, an italian and a dane are all from distinctly separate cultures and tarring them all as the same because they are all "western" is as racist and stupid as if I were to think koreans, japanese and thai people were the same, or kenyans, egyptians and burkino fasians.

finally I shall tell you a little story to illustrate why you are wrong in blaming the "west" for an "eastern" countries lapse in traditional values:

a good friend of mine was a campaigner for anti-capitalist gov't policies [not my politics, but his heart was in the right place ] now, he hates the big corporations, particularly the fast food ones [destroying rainforest, serving poor food, unpaying employees, etc]... now he went to work with the zapatistas in southern mexico, a poor impoverished region run by quasi-marxists.

ok, so he had these ideas that the people should stick to their culture and not eat food from the corporations, but having spent time with them, he one day saw a guy eating some fast food... and he went to go and tell him off... that it wasn't marxist of him to eat that... then he realised that everyone has to make their own choices as to what is right and wrong... who was he to tell a poor guy what they could and couldnt eat?

so, who are YOU ebu? to think you have the right to tell other japanese people how to live their lives? if they wish to leave behind some of their old ways, why shouldnt they? i suppose you would have women's feet bound because its "traditional"? yes, different cultures can and perhaps should have different customs, but none of them benefit from failing to move with the times and modernise... one of the reasons Japan is so wonderful is that it is one of the few places that has managed to modernise without globalising and being a clone country!

you say freedom if not governed is destructive... again - nonsense... what you mean is PEOPLE, if not governed, are destructive... all people, Ebu, your "easterners" (whoever they are) are people like anywhere else, and to suggest that they are unable to have the freedoms enjoyed in european and north american countries because they would be "destructive" is offensive and again racist in the expreme against the "easterners" (again who are you referring to??)

(apologies for SP... this guy is SO wrong!)

 

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

NO COMPARISON BETWEEN WEST AND EAST

It is not about cursing and damning... But it is about some facts, we believe or deny. They are already there. A wisdom doesn't deny or react, but tries to correct.

I admit that there is bad eastern nation(s) in area too as Jews. They are easterns but worse than any western. But we talk on general nature. Let us compare fairly:

a) Today is the fourth year of Iraqi invasion by USA. What for? To remove Saddam. But he is already dead. He fell from power at the beginning of invasion. So, four years war is for what? Let us tell the truth:
It is for genocide, oil, to found a Kurdish country which will serve western well as they do at the moment, fight muslims whereever they are, colonize underground wealth, while killing daily hundreds from civilians, tortuning thousands, raping millions.

So, we, as easterns and muslims, should keep quiet to get democracy in the area. Democracy, which means killing others, raping, totuning etc... wildness, to show all your wildness... Never! and never!

b) There is no Guantanomo in japan or in any Asian (eastern) country. But there is in the west.

c) Europeans never comdemn Iraqi invasion or Phlistian, even Afghani and Somali invasion. Because, western people can't be fair. Today I read in the news that EU decided to open common market in USA and to work together to improve the relations.

d) We know the real terorists. We know they are in the west today, consedering curses on our Prophet as freedom and crown the one curses the worst. Has anybody heard such nonsense in the easterns? Never! You can't even...

East and West can't accept even comparison! You can see any eastern country and western as Japan and USA.

Regards,

 

[nice gaijin]

This is racist nonsense and I think it has no place on this board. It really has nothing to do with Japan, or religion for that matter; it's just a smear. I'm upset about the war too but that does not justify your generalizations of any western nation, or the anti-semitic comments.

 

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

This is racist nonsense and I think it has no place on this board. It really has nothing to do with Japan, or religion for that matter; it's just a smear. I'm upset about the war too but that does not justify your generalizations of any western nation, or the anti-semitic comments.

If you call someone's thoughts and comments as nonsense, while you are talking about unlimited freedom, instead of disproving them; it will be real racism and limited freedom in favor of some, not caring others.
Such words never convince others that you are against invasion, while supporting it obviously.
I expect from others to to disprove if they don't agree and support if they agree, not cursing at all.
This is a forum of sharing thoughts. We don't have think in your way, if you really believe in democracy and freedom in stating and expressing. I never cursed any member here, or on his thoughts, I can't either. I respect all except those who do on the contrary.
I like Japan and the Japanese generally. I have right to support what I like, others should respect of it.
Regards,

PS: Let suppose that it is your country under USA and western invasion. You could think the same as now?

 

[nice gaijin]

I said nothing about unlimited freedom, and I said being upset about the war was no excuse for racism; that's not supporting the war, so don't try to put words into my mouth.

So far, the only mention you've made of Japan so far in this thread (in the Japanese Religion board, of all places) has been some vague allusions to how Japan has lost some of its values, apparently due to unidentified western influences, one such loss of value being the increased usage of the word "love," for which you've cited no sources or even explained why that constitutes a loss of value.

Disapproving of racist comments does not make one a racist. I'm not cursing you, and I'm completely unimpressed with your attempts to play the victim.

 

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

The ones I wrote are as preface in front of what I want to say yet.

Let me tell all in briefly, then, some can understand better:

Today, the World is going worse and worse, from global wars to global heating. The only way to stop it, is by Eastern civilisations being lead by Japan. Japan has enough power to lead Eastern people after girding on and some preparation.

One of those preperations -even the most important one- is religion. Japan must solve that poblem urgently. Because, westerns, since they are christhians, they support each other in invasions, never hinder tham against others, as they never hindered or condemned USA to bomb Hiroshima or Nakazaki, while they won't do it in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somali, Philistian or Chechenia even in Qawqaz. In Wietneam none condemned USA, in Latin America invasions none did.

I expect Japan to lead Estearn people to stop all those wars and other nonsenses after some small arrangements.

I hope it is more clear now!

 

[nice gaijin]

If you think Christians either in the US or abroad did not condemn the use or proliferation of atomic weapons, or aggression throughout the world, you are greatly mistaken. You are still categorizing nations by their geographic or religious makeup, which is a pointless exercise. The world isn't that simple.

I wonder what you mean by "One of those preperations -even the most important one- is religion. Japan must solve that poblem urgently." Japan is predominantly atheist with superficial cultural influences from Buddhism and Shintoism. What exactly is the problem of religion, and what is it that Japan is supposed to do regarding it?

I agree that the world has seen better days, but I don't think Japan is exactly poised to lead the "Eastern people" to any sort of solution.

 

[humbleservant]

ebu, you haven't actually dealt with any of the points in my previous post.

now you have yet to define what makes a country eastern or a person eastern. if you do not, then I cannot understand what you mean.

as regards Iraq... historically, mesopotamia is the source of western civilization... in fact the middle east and near east were once the greek heartland before the rise of the arabs through islam, and turks through the invasion of the mongols... so, if you are taking an historical viewpoint, the middle east by rights, is a western civilization...

it is certainly true that the conflict between europe and the middle&near east has helped to definre and shape both areas, and thus they have amore entangled and shared history and culture than the middle and near east has with japan, any of the pacific and oriental countries, or africa.

in any argument you must define your terms... if you cannot you are merely using smoke and mirrors to disguise the fact that you don't know what you are on about.

it is interesting to note that only in a liberal "westernised" website could you use your freedom fo speech to engage in this very discussion... in an islamist state, under sharia law, you would not have the freedoms to have this conversation!

the key point to note on islam, if you must insist on bring it up again and again, is that the arab people, historically, have been extremely mal-treated by most of their leaders... amd that sharia law and much else of what makes up an oppressive muslim regime are actually against the values of the Prophet's teachings... ask any of the european muslims, or american ones, or south east asian ones, or japanese ones... there are plenty of westerners who are also muslim... and there are plenty or arabs, israelis and "easterners" who are not muslims.

those who speak in riddles do so, because when their opinions are articulated in plain speech they are patently wrong.

 

[Ebu Huzeyfe]

Japan had great leaders before, as Prince Itō Hirobumi ﾋ?俄?慊｡ 窶敘ｽ窶｢ﾂｶ and some others, specially in Meiji era. They had (still keep most of it) very high moral values. I was surprised to see the Japanese with such high values adn started to read on them more.

Japan has no slavery in its history, no black-white discrimination, no colonozition, no rudeness, no emperialism, no and noooo...

Actually, eastern people don't have such words and terms in their dictionaries, even in their lives and brains, hearts and mentalities.

It is true that once Westerns ruled in Middle East but under invasion. Half of Middle East was under the control of Westerns and another half was under the control of Sasanis (Iranians/Persians). Then, Arabs took their independence back by the Prophet.

When we talk against Western nations, we talk general, not including all people one by one. Of course, many exceptions are there. But we talk of general courses. We speak on general history.

If you don't believe in Japan's power today, you have nothing to do with it. But if you do, you must do what I do.

Another problem with westerns, they do things diffirent than they show. Let me give you an example:

If it is condemning a country, they see it first; if it is western as they are, they condemn orally, just some few words but going on cooperating and contributing with it (them). If it is not, they really punish. It is quite clear those politics of EU in Middle East and Asia.

I believe in that Japan has chance now with the presedent Abe. I hope he is aware of all those power and chances they have. They will unite and lead Asians soon as Cengiz Han (Mongolians).

Regards,

 

[nice gaijin]

You're a troll and I'm done responding to you.

 

[Mycernius]

This thread is going downhill quickly and is leading to racist posts. Locked. And don't try to start another one, Ebu, unless you can be nice.