Japan plans foreign fingerprinting

[Davey]

The latest news on it:

Japan passes measure to fingerprint foreigners
Last Updated Thu, 18 May 2006 06:58:04 EDT
CBC News

Japan's cabinet has given final approval to a plan to fingerprint and photograph all adult foreigners entering the country, six years after the country dropped a similar requirement because of privacy concerns.

Cabinet made the decision Wednesday, a day after its parliament's Upper House approved a bill toughening security measures.

Japan's lower house approved the bill in March. Now that it's been approved by cabinet, its measures are expected to take effect in November 2007.

After that date, in order to enter the country, those born outside Japan and aged 16 or older will have to agree to be photographed and have electronic images of their fingerprints taken.

The images will be checked against those in international crime and terrorism databases, as well as domestic crime records, and then stored for an unspecified time.

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[pipokun]

What do you think of the new biometric EU passport?

 

[Orionvortex]

I feel sorry for those who have permanent residence status because now they must wait in line with all of the other foreigners just like they are tourists. That would be a tough pill to swallow considering all of the bureaucratic mess they had to go through just to obtain permanent residence status only to be treated like a tourist.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

It wouldnt be such an issue if all people were getting this done, even if it was an inconvenience still, its the fact the native Japanese can sail past while I am "checked in" in the fashion a suspected criminal is when arrested, its humiliating and just downright descrimination based on my looks/ethnicity.

Anti-terrorism my ***, anti-terrorism has been the golden excuse for all sorts of poor and unfair laws designed to scratch other itches then fair game such as actual safety of all people.

If I have to be threated like a suspected scuicide bomber, then all Japanese better be treated like it to.

I wanna see Yamada's and Ayumi's getting treated like a crook along with the Johns and Sarah's, it will still feel dirty but at least its fair.

 

[MiCC]

we all know real reasons behind this is that japan want foreigners out

 

[Davey]

we all know real reasons behind this is that japan want foreigners out

Let me take a guess: you had problems with the Japanese Immigration?

If you say things ( I think it's stupid and dumb what you said), please tell us why, instead of only a short sentence!

(but thanks for brining this thread back)

 

[Alegi]

we all know real reasons behind this is that japan want foreigners out

I do get that feeling to, not sure why. But that won't stop be for trying to get to japan, not as a tourist (call it what you want) but as worker and a wife looker (that was meant as a joke, the last part).

 

[Taiko666]

Okaerinasai! Fingerprint please, gaijin.

(Sorry for the use of we and us in this post, but this is another Japan / foreigner issue...)

It's only 9 months till we (foreign visitors and residents of Japan) are going to have to be fingerprinted and mug-shot upon (re)entry to Japan.

The usual activists (Debito, JapanProbe etc) seem to be completely silent on this issue. Have we all resigned ourselves to be treated even more like criminals? To have to wait ages (presumably) to get fingerprinted while our Japanese spouses and children swiftly waft though immigration? ("Mummy, where's Daddy?" "He's getting fingerprinted darling, because Daddy's a foreigner and lots of foreigners are nasty people.") To have our prints checked against those gathered from crime scenes, with the inherent risk of mistakes? (I'm pretty sure gaijin prints will get zealously checked before Japanese prints.)

I'm sure even the most Japan-loving of us realise or suspect this has nothing to do with terrorism control. Rather, it's seeing to be keeping control of foreigners to gain votes, and of course apeing (as always) the misguided lead of the USA.

 

[KirinMan]

To have to wait ages (presumably) to get fingerprinted while our Japanese spouses and children swiftly waft though immigration? ("Mummy, where's Daddy?" "He's getting fingerprinted darling, because Daddy's a foreigner and lots of foreigners are nasty people.") To have our prints checked against those gathered from crime scenes, with the inherent risk of mistakes? (I'm pretty sure gaijin prints will get zealously checked before Japanese prints.)

Well to us foreign residents of Japan that have P.R. status we don't have to go through the foreign entrants line anyway so that shouldn't be an issue.

Why do you think that the Japanese immigration authorities are going to fingerprint Japanese nationals anyway?

I've been finger printed here, back in the day when the finger prints were also included on the Gaijin Registration Card, what's the big deal? I am not a crimminal and I have nothing to hide.

Outside of the finger print, not prints btw, US immigration fingerprints all foreigners applying for green cards as well, do you have a problem with that?

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I've been finger printed here, back in the day when the finger prints were also included on the Gaijin Registration Card, what's the big deal? I am not a crimminal and I have nothing to hide.

Yes, yes, I remember this, too, as I may have posted on this thread earlier. I could never understand the big stink a lot of foreigners made about that at the time, and I still can't.

 

[pipokun]

Name-change law aids illegal reentry to Japan
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20070220TDY02006.htm

If the government would treat foreign-nationals accoring to the countries where they are from, it must provoke another harsh argument.

I heard the finger-printing and gaijin card stuff originally stemed from a strong request from the Asian residents who did not want to be categorised into the North.

 

[KirinMan]

Name-change law aids illegal reentry to Japan
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20070220TDY02006.htm
If the government would treat foreign-nationals accoring to the countries where they are from, it must provoke another harsh argument.

After reading this article, btw thanks for sharing that, at least to me it sure makes sense for the immigration officials to start finger-printing and taking pictures of people entering the country.

This is a great example of someone breaking the law and getting caught at but after the fact, if she had been finger printed the first time it probably never would have happened.

 

[Taiko666]

Why do you think that the Japanese immigration authorities are going to fingerprint Japanese nationals anyway?

The immigration authorities aren't going to fingerprint Japanese nationals. But Japanese who've been arrested will have had their prints taken.

Outside of the finger print, not prints btw, US immigration fingerprints all foreigners applying for green cards as well, do you have a problem with that?

Yes, I do. The USA is just as bad as Japan in this respect.

 

[KirinMan]

The immigration authorities aren't going to fingerprint Japanese nationals. But Japanese who've been arrested will have had their prints taken.

Yes, I do. The USA is just as bad as Japan in this respect.

So what does that have to do with your last post? If you are attemtping to say that foreigner's being fingerprinted is the same as being treated as a crimminal then why not come out straight and say that, instead of beating around the bush?

Which btw I disagree with you in the first place.

Geez then do you also have problems with people joining the military getting fingerprinted as well? btw they get fingerprinted too. Oh it isn't just that either, people in sensitive jobs get it done as well.

The point I am trying to make to you is that if you have nothing to hide, then what is the problem with it? It isn't your country here and if the Japanese want to do it, so be it. It's just a part of the rules that one has to following living here. If you don't like it then you have no one but to blame but yourself if you decide to come here or stay here.

I have nothing to hide from the authorities do you?

 

[craftsman]

Yes, I do. The USA is just as bad as Japan in this respect.

I agree with Taiko666. I remember getting fingerprinted for the foreign registration card and was outraged. Interestingly, I have had conversations about fingerprinting in the past with American friends and they were much more pro the idea than my British colleagues were. I wonder if there is anything cultural in the different reactions.

For me, it's got nothing to do with the fact you have nothing to hide or you're not a criminal - but everything to do with control and power and the potential misuse. This goes for Japan, the US etc.

Also safety? Fingerprinting makes us no safer. It's a political decision not one of safety.

 

[KirinMan]

Craftsman you do bring up point here by looking at the discussion from a cultural aspect. I don't know about others, and I also have an overall tendency to look at many things that others choose to look at negatively from a more positive point of view.

I do think that it is a protection of sorts from possibly being accused of something that one didn't do.

Whether Japan is copying something that other countries are doing is a different point in my opinion. Japan decided to do it and it really isn't a small undertaking in any way shape or form. It costs quite a bit of money to install all the necessary equipment and train the personel to use it. So it is an investment, that I feel is overall being put into place to protect the people here in Japan from potential criminal's entering the country.

Why the outrage at the fingerprinting for the registration card? If it bothered you so much why did you stay here? What was the reason for the anger?
Outrage as you know is a word that has very strong connotations. Bothered, upset, angry, ok maybe at feeling like that you are being treat as a crimminal, because that is what most people equate with fingerprinting. Yet it is just a source of identification, nothing more, nothing less.

I've been fingerprinted entering the military, and fingerprinted for living here and I take it as a protection of me and my rights rather than an intrusion on my privacy.

 

[craftsman]

Why the outrage at the fingerprinting for the registration card? Bothered, upset, angry, ok maybe at feeling like that you are being treat as a crimminal, because that is what most people equate with fingerprinting.

Yes as you said - outrage because at the time I equated fingerprinting with criminals like most other people. The finger prints were not used for identification as the card had a photograph on it so I concluded that I could only have been seen as a potential criminal. This was a while ago now. I was also trying to get use to the idea of having to carry around ID which was a totally new concept for me. So my initial reactions were anger. (Anger doesn't last very long with me)

If it bothered you so much why did you stay here?

I thought this was a bit of a strange question. Outrage at the act of fingerprinting foreigners has no bearing on staying or not staying in Japan. You can be angry or unhappy about something without it affecting other areas of your life. I am often outraged at injustices in Japan or elsewhere but what has that got to do with me having to leave because of them?

Yet it is just a source of identification, nothing more, nothing less.

But that's not how I see it. They are part of a wave of infringements on individual rights and freedoms in the guise of 'security' and 'fighting terrorism'.

 

[Taiko666]

If you are attemtping to say that foreigner's being fingerprinted is the same as being treated as a crimminal then why not come out straight and say that, instead of beating around the bush?

I thought I made that clear in my post when I said
Have we all resigned ourselves to be treated even more like criminals?

Geez then do you also have problems with people joining the military getting fingerprinted as well? btw they get fingerprinted too. Oh it isn't just that either, people in sensitive jobs get it done as well.

When I arrive back at Narita I'm neither joining the military nor taking a sensitive job. I'm simply returning home, and I don't want to be treated like a criminal.

The point I am trying to make to you is that if you have nothing to hide, then what is the problem with it?

Er... being treated like a criminal, and having my privacy invaded. I've nothing to hide, but I don't wish to compelled to prove it.

I think there is a British/USA cultural difference here. Most Britons would definitely be outraged to have their prints taken for no good reason. The same goes for things like drugs tests at work, which are almost completely unheard of in Britain, yet commonplace in the USA.

Yet it is just a source of identification, nothing more, nothing less.

And the only reason they want this identification is because they view me as a likely criminal. The Japanese are not routinely fingerprinted, from which I can infer that the Japanese consider foreigners more likely to be criminals than Japanese.

It isn't your country here ...

That doesn't mean I deserve to be treated like a criminal. If I am indeed a guest (I dislike that concept) then the Japanese are extremely rude to their guests.

... and if the Japanese want to do it, so be it.

You're giving the Japanese license to do absolutely anything they want then? Are you a masochist?

If you don't like it then you have no one but to blame but yourself if you decide to come here or stay here.

If it bothered you so much why did you stay here?

Whenver they occur, these sort of comments are almost invariably unnecessary and totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

For me, it's got nothing to do with the fact you have nothing to hide or you're not a criminal - but everything to do with control and power and the potential misuse. This goes for Japan, the US etc.

Also safety? Fingerprinting makes us no safer. It's a political decision not one of safety.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[KirinMan]

I thought I made that clear in my post when I said
Have we all resigned ourselves to be treated even more like criminals?

I'm sorry about this point I don't see it the same way as you do so I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I understand what you are saying and respect your opinion, yet I don't agree, that's all.

You're giving the Japanese license to do absolutely anything they want then? Are you a masochist?

Not hardly, again I don't look at it that way.

This was a while ago now. I was also trying to get use to the idea of having to carry around ID which was a totally new concept for me. So my initial reactions were anger. (Anger doesn't last very long with me)

Fair enough, I can't stay angry that long either. I have not had a problem with carrying around the ID. It just sits there next to my drivers license.

But that's not how I see it. They are part of a wave of infringements on individual rights and freedoms in the guise of 'security' and 'fighting terrorism'.

On the fingerprinting at the airports, that's one thing. But the fingerprinting for the gaijin registration card has been going on a whole heck of a lot longer than that. The only reason that the finger print was taken off the registration card itself was because of the Zainichi Kankokujin lobby making a big stink about it. From their point of view I can understand the reasoning for complaining. As they have been born and raised here, some third or even fourth generation. However I am a foreigner here and if Japan decides, for me to live here I have to follow this law then so be it. If I couldn't live with it then I wouldn't stay. I do not like having to have it done, but it is just one of the facts of living here in Japan.

I am also pretty certain that the UK fingerprints immigrants and people that apply for residency there as well. So it isn't just Japan either, it is just a fact of life in living here.

Whenver they occur, these sort of comments are almost invariably unnecessary and totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

Actually I find it to be very revelant in that I see many people that complain quite often about this or that about life here in Japan, and compare how things are done in their country of origin to life here. That's all.

Craftsman I also think that I am going to have to agree to disagree with you about this subject. Thanks for making your points here as well. Cheers!

 

[pipokun]

All Japanese students studying in London except some short-term students with tourist visa are required to submit police reports when they get student visa and need to submit all finger prints to the police.
If you're a Japan-loving advocate, please say something to the British immigration to work more efficiently. I fully support their EU/non-EU national separation at the Heathrow, but I need a bit efficiency after they finish EU nationals. I hope the gorvenment will raise the airport tax for more immigration staffs there. Sorry if the situation gets better now.
I don't have anything to say about the ultra-sensitive X-ray equipment, for I feel safer and nobody wants to see my body.

ﾅ?ﾃｲ窶｢ﾅ椎ｽs窶堙?*ﾂ人ﾅ陳､ﾂ修ﾂ青ｶ窶堋ｪ窶板ｧ窶堙??堋ｱ窶堙?窶堙ｨﾂ ﾅ遅ﾅ?ﾂｯﾂ静倪?堙ｧ窶堙ｪﾅ馳ﾂ渉
ﾅ遅ﾅｽ@窶堙俄?堙ｦ窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堙??冕窶堙坂?愿ｺ窶怒窶堙??堙娯?佚伉催敘?ﾃｺﾅ津?窶堋ｪ22窶愿ｺ窶堙懌?堙??堙?*窶堙俄?堙?窶堙??堙ｩ窶堙娯?堋ｪ窶堋｢窶堙｢窶堙??板ｧ窶堙??堋ｱ窶堙?窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堙??堋｢窶堋､窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙??堋ｷﾂ。
http://www2.nagoyatv.com/LanDB/jsp/NewsH0200/NewsH0200.jsp?id=20412
Gifu, a guy baricaded himself and stabbed a cop
Accoring to the police, he barricaded himself in his appartment because he did not want to go back to his home country. His visa will expire on Feb. 22.

 

[KirinMan]

All Japanese students studying in London except some short-term students with tourist visa are required to submit police reports when they get student visa and need to submit all finger prints to the police.
If you're a Japan-loving advocate, please say something to the British immigration to work more efficiently. I fully support their EU/non-EU national separation at the Heathrow, but I need a bit efficiency after they finish EU nationals. I hope the gorvenment will raise the airport tax for more immigration staffs there. Sorry if the situation gets better now.
I don't have anything to say about the ultra-sensitive X-ray equipment, for I feel safer and nobody wants to see my body.

Well now I am curious to know how they feel in knowing that their own country is doing the same thing to foreigners in their country that they have to face here. At least here foreigners do not have to submit police reports, that is a bit more invasive than just getting fingerprinted, well at least I think so.

Oh please do not take this sacastically craftsman and Taiko666, I truly would like to know how you both feel. Maybe I could understand it more because in the states we do the same thing, yet if the shoe is on the other foot I wonder how you feel.

 

[craftsman]

All Japanese students studying in London except some short-term students with tourist visa are required to submit police reports when they get student visa and need to submit all finger prints to the police.
If you're a Japan-loving advocate, please say something to the British immigration to work more efficiently. I fully support their EU/non-EU national separation at the Heathrow, but I need a bit efficiency after they finish EU nationals. I hope the gorvenment will raise the airport tax for more immigration staffs there. Sorry if the situation gets better now.

Right. The fingerprinting is now becoming common place everywhere, not just Japan and the US. And as for British Immigration at Heathrow - I don't think that will ever change. It's a nightmare.

Well now I am curious to know how they feel in knowing that their own country is doing the same thing to foreigners in their country that they have to face here. At least here foreigners do not have to submit police reports, that is a bit more invasive than just getting fingerprinted, well at least I think so.

Oh please do not take this sacastically craftsman and Taiko666, I truly would like to know how you both feel. Maybe I could understand it more because in the states we do the same thing, yet if the shoe is on the other foot I wonder how you feel.

The fact that Britain now requires foreign students to submit a police report and possibly be photographed and finger printed in order to get their student visas makes not a jot of difference in how I feel. Nationalities or countries don't come into it for me - it's about human dignity and respect. I'm against making people, regardless of the country, feel like criminals just for crossing a border.

 

[KirinMan]

The fact that Britain now requires foreign students to submit a police report and possibly be photographed and finger printed in order to get their student visas makes not a jot of difference in how I feel. Nationalities or countries don't come into it for me - it's about human dignity and respect. I'm against making people, regardless of the country, feel like criminals just for crossing a border.

So you would be making the same complaints if you were fingerprinted in the US as well?

Ok then where do countries rights extend at protecting themselves from crimminals? If you believe in the right of fair passage for all then is it fair to say that you think it is fair for crimminal's to have the freedom to travel whereever they want to go, even if they have not been convicted of a crime in the country that they are attempting to enter?

 

[MajideSaiaku]

I wonder what the future for fingerprinting will be anyway, since they are going out of fashion and increasingly being shown to be unreliable.

 

[undrentide]

I wonder what the future for fingerprinting will be anyway, since they are going out of fashion and increasingly being shown to be unreliable.

Eye-scanning (iris recognition)?
☝