Do you believe in Love?
- Thread starter Slayer4U
- Start date
- 28 Jul 2005
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- 172
The type of love you are obviously focusing in on in your comment/question, is that of eros. (I'll call this intense eros to keep it distinct from general eros) The more realistic definition of this love, is that of attraction to the object of the sexual lean of ones brain makeup and operation. As there is the average male mental make-up, there is the female; and then there are points on either side of the bell curve, homosexual to asexual.
While the stimulation that the brain works up over chemical and firing processes which cause what is often called 'being in love' is sustained, it has been shown that there is a tendency to focus on the one object of that 'love'--for both male and female brains regardless of sexual orientation. Now, while we are 'drunk on love', having fallen head over heels with that person who is the object there is no problem...we are walking through open fields of soft, fresh flowers on Spring days--not a care in the world other than being with, thinking of and longing for being thought of by the one we are in love with. Most unfortunately, however, that state simply does not last forever--in almost all cases--three years or so are about the limit.
With marriage, a social arrangement that somewhat forces the nature in us to adapt to what is otherwise unnatural, had historically been thought of as an everlasting union. Therefore from the old days, and more strongly in some social structures today, a civil union is established on the assumption that the two parties involving themselves will stay together...not divorce.1 What that means, after the intense eros wears off--which it most certainly will--and the 'accustomed to' stage has well matured, (Cinderella and the prince have been worn quite thin) is that a couple will both have to work hard at trying to keep the embers of love going.
We have agape--the open and respectful love--which one can feel for all humans and animals and things, but that alone, will not make a good marriage. We have philos--the friendly, brotherly-sisterly love of companionship--but that alone, or even with agape, may not, in many cases, be enough to keep the marriage bonds strong against possible natural influxes in eros general...the man (or woman) can be forced by nature to urge to mate. It is surely better to work at maintaining agape, philos and eros in a marriage. Both partners have to equally work at it. Both partners should, as much as possible, see their mate as human equal firstly, then as the sexual being that they are, and keeping that in mind work together so as to help keep the balance. (some people have more, some less drive, some a larger hypothalamus, some a smaller one--the hypothalamus is the sex center)
What bothers me, is that so much of this information and study should be applied before going into marriage, but it isn't. Parents should be more open to help their children learn about sexual related matters as well as about the workings of nature, as well as giving them room to test and challenge social structures which tend to deny or shun these matters.
So in conclusion (and skipping a lot of data to show it) no, love in terms of that which occurs for the natural purpose of propagation does not last forever, but a couple can work hard together to at least keep the embers warm the fragrances in their active memory. And no, a mating partner was not originally a forever matter either, just as for all animals, so the married state can only be sustained by careful work before marriage and during marriage to maintain a working balance between the sexes (in most cases) and the individual humans.
1. In some contries, of course, a man can marry a given number of women, in at least one that I know of, a woman can have several husbands (I think that man's brothers?) In some Shiite Muslem lands, marriage can be temporary.
While the stimulation that the brain works up over chemical and firing processes which cause what is often called 'being in love' is sustained, it has been shown that there is a tendency to focus on the one object of that 'love'--for both male and female brains regardless of sexual orientation. Now, while we are 'drunk on love', having fallen head over heels with that person who is the object there is no problem...we are walking through open fields of soft, fresh flowers on Spring days--not a care in the world other than being with, thinking of and longing for being thought of by the one we are in love with. Most unfortunately, however, that state simply does not last forever--in almost all cases--three years or so are about the limit.
With marriage, a social arrangement that somewhat forces the nature in us to adapt to what is otherwise unnatural, had historically been thought of as an everlasting union. Therefore from the old days, and more strongly in some social structures today, a civil union is established on the assumption that the two parties involving themselves will stay together...not divorce.1 What that means, after the intense eros wears off--which it most certainly will--and the 'accustomed to' stage has well matured, (Cinderella and the prince have been worn quite thin) is that a couple will both have to work hard at trying to keep the embers of love going.
We have agape--the open and respectful love--which one can feel for all humans and animals and things, but that alone, will not make a good marriage. We have philos--the friendly, brotherly-sisterly love of companionship--but that alone, or even with agape, may not, in many cases, be enough to keep the marriage bonds strong against possible natural influxes in eros general...the man (or woman) can be forced by nature to urge to mate. It is surely better to work at maintaining agape, philos and eros in a marriage. Both partners have to equally work at it. Both partners should, as much as possible, see their mate as human equal firstly, then as the sexual being that they are, and keeping that in mind work together so as to help keep the balance. (some people have more, some less drive, some a larger hypothalamus, some a smaller one--the hypothalamus is the sex center)
What bothers me, is that so much of this information and study should be applied before going into marriage, but it isn't. Parents should be more open to help their children learn about sexual related matters as well as about the workings of nature, as well as giving them room to test and challenge social structures which tend to deny or shun these matters.
So in conclusion (and skipping a lot of data to show it) no, love in terms of that which occurs for the natural purpose of propagation does not last forever, but a couple can work hard together to at least keep the embers warm the fragrances in their active memory. And no, a mating partner was not originally a forever matter either, just as for all animals, so the married state can only be sustained by careful work before marriage and during marriage to maintain a working balance between the sexes (in most cases) and the individual humans.
1. In some contries, of course, a man can marry a given number of women, in at least one that I know of, a woman can have several husbands (I think that man's brothers?) In some Shiite Muslem lands, marriage can be temporary.
Kinsao
Horizon Rider
- 8 May 2005
- 8,515
- 143
^ Wholeheartedly agree!
My opinion? 'Love' can be for ever. It depends on the individuals involved, and critically, how they define 'love'. IMO, 'love' is a very complex combination of factors - emotional, physical, mental, instinctive and rational - that can't easily be defined and analysed. It's perfectly possible for a couple to have what they define as a 'love' relationship throughout their natural lives and to build a lasting and happy marriage on this. Sadly, of course, lots of marriages don't last, for a number of reasons - perhaps the couple fall 'out of love', were never really in 'love' (maybe having a physical attraction without much else in their relationship to substantiate it, to think of just one possible reason), or their circumstances or mental/emotional states changed.
I don't think it's idealistic or unreasonable to believe that it's possible to love one person for the rest of your life, and for them to love you in return. (I just never think it'll happen to me - but that's another story
)
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
Awwwww....Kinsao chan...look on the brightness of the possiblity....but I do understand it, I used to always feel the same !! I'll call my friend cupid, and have a good talk with him.(I just never think it'll happen to me - but that's another story
:romance: 
:valentine 
Revenant
後輩
- 7 Mar 2005
- 634
- 38
Common goals and lifestyle choices are also necessary to a successful marriage I think, on top of all that that Mars Man got into.
I read a list of factors that were more often associated with 'successful' marriages.
- Married after twenty.
- Dated for a long while before marriage.
- Well educated.
- Enjoy a stable income from a good job.
- Live in a small town or on a farm.
- Did not cohabit or become pregnant before marriage.
- Both spouses are religiously committed.
I read a list of factors that were more often associated with 'successful' marriages.
- Married after twenty.
- Dated for a long while before marriage.
- Well educated.
- Enjoy a stable income from a good job.
- Live in a small town or on a farm.
- Did not cohabit or become pregnant before marriage.
- Both spouses are religiously committed.
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
Yes, Revenant that first point is very important, I do agree--because a couple will have to rely heavily on friendship after the thrill needs to be jump started along. Of course this is a general average. As Kinsao mentioned too, some couples just really hit it off !!
I don't think I would yet be ready to attempt to define 'successful' (as you also seem to question it by putting it in single quotations) because there may be so many layers...I don't know. I have come across the general data that is like what you have given, but can't help but feel that there was methodological error in reaching such a conclusion.
This is still something that I am doing research on, but ever, EVER so slowly...my little lady just doesn't want to help much at all....hee, hee, hee.....
I don't think I would yet be ready to attempt to define 'successful' (as you also seem to question it by putting it in single quotations) because there may be so many layers...I don't know. I have come across the general data that is like what you have given, but can't help but feel that there was methodological error in reaching such a conclusion.
This is still something that I am doing research on, but ever, EVER so slowly...my little lady just doesn't want to help much at all....hee, hee, hee.....
leonmarino
Back
- 19 May 2006
- 1,258
- 64
Love is eternal until it's over.
epigene
相変わらず不束者です
- 10 Nov 2004
- 4,354
- 179
I agree with most of what Mars Man said, but I also think that there is "something" unexplainable in the chemistry between the partners that makes the marriage last long. I also believe in "compromise" on both sides--be resigned to ignore the aspects of the partner you don't like (and control anger over them
) and 100% love the aspects of the partner that you like.Revenant's list of factors for successful marriages look nice, but there are exceptions, too. My husband and I satisfied only two of them when we started out and we've been married for 26 years now...
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
I hear you epigene san !! There are those times when things 'click', and who knows just what it is, really. At the same time, there are those patterns that seem to reoccur from case to case (not always, that is). For example, the woman who finally manages to leave one wife-beater simply to fall in love with the same type man again--and it can't be explained either.
Kind of like what Kinsao was getting at, there's so much going on. In what you said, I kind of feel--and maybe this has a lot of weight in the list which Revenant has shared--that the strength of the human-love element (agape) is important for the balancing portion and philios (and I noticed I had misspelled that in my first post) for creating friendship portion. I really feel that if these two are well balanced and strong, a couple can more easily stay in the realm of eros as well--even when there has been a loss of activating power.
This is my second marriage, coming up on 19 years, and it has been rough--one big thorn in the side has been primarily, without going into detail, a matter of 'believing in the other'
Kind of like what Kinsao was getting at, there's so much going on. In what you said, I kind of feel--and maybe this has a lot of weight in the list which Revenant has shared--that the strength of the human-love element (agape) is important for the balancing portion and philios (and I noticed I had misspelled that in my first post) for creating friendship portion. I really feel that if these two are well balanced and strong, a couple can more easily stay in the realm of eros as well--even when there has been a loss of activating power.
This is my second marriage, coming up on 19 years, and it has been rough--one big thorn in the side has been primarily, without going into detail, a matter of 'believing in the other'
