Help with Yosegaki Hinomaru

[Jack98]

Hello everyone, I would like to have your opinion if possible. I would be interested in purchasing one of the flags from the photos. But before making an offer I would like to know if the flags are authentic for you, and which Is the best among them (if authentic).
Thank you.

 

[Jack98]

Any thoughts on authenticity?

 

[Majestic]

I don't like the first one. The writing is too sloppy. No date, no location. Hard to imagine a writer would write so poorly on an item that would be seen by people, family, friends. I can't even make out the name of the intended recipient. Kanazawa (maybe)? Some of the smaller-written names are quite clean and proper, but the slogan at the top (good luck in battle), and the largish names vertically down the right-hand side are terrible.

The next flag, with the faint writing radiation away from the red disk, could be OK. It's not "typical" in that I can't see a recipient or a giver. There are just patriotic phrases with names under them, as if people were invited to sign the flag and put their favorite patriotic slogan above their name. It's not bad, or particularly suspicious, but I have a bias towards flags that have a clear recipient and a clear giver (harder to fake these). There is a variety of styles of writing on this flag, which makes me think it was definitely signed by several different people. Could be authentic.

The third one looks OK to me. It has a clear recipient written across the top: IWASA Tsuneo. And the giver is probably the person on the right-hand side; MURAKAMI Makijirō. High probability of being authentic (in my view).

Fourth one looks a bit busy. Too much going on. Can't readily find a giver or receiver. Just a bunch of slogans slapped on a flag. Trying a bit too hard to be an authentic wartime flag. "Let's put a few more wartime phrases on it to make it look extra patriotic".
Can't say that I like it.

Please bear in mind that I'm not a native speaker of Japanese, and what looks OK to my eyes will not always look OK to a native Japanese person's eyes. Conversely, what I find suspicious or lacking, may not raise any eyebrows with a native person.

 

[Jack98]

Ok, so this is the best flag among them, right? And the written on the top of the Red disk Is a name and not a slogan, right?
In any case, Majestic, thank you again for your availability.

 

[Majestic]

It's a slogan and a name.
It reads from right to left, but nowadays it would be written as 祈武運長久 岩佐常雄君

Pray for good luck in war. To: Iwasa Tsuneo

 

[Jack98]

It's a slogan and a name.
It reads from right to left, but nowadays it would be written as 祈武運長久 岩佐常雄君

Pray for good luck in war. To: Iwasa Tsuneo

Thanks again

 

[Jack98]

So the name Murakami Makijiro Is this one?

 

[Majestic]

What you circled is more than Murakami Makijirō
What you circled is
祈武運長久 村上牧次郎
不言實行

Pray for good luck in battle. MURAKAMI Makijirō
Deeds, not words. (Action before words).

plus there's one other slogan, but I can't get it.

 

[Jack98]

Ah ok, so the phrase "Pray for good luck in Battle" appears two times , but this Mr. Murakami is the giver and not a second recipient, right?
In any case thanks again and Sorry for the disturb

 

[Jack98]

Is It normal that the same phrase appears two times?

 

[Majestic]

IWASA is the recipient. MURAKAMI is the (or one of the) givers/presenters.
It is unusual to see this phrase represented twice in large letters, but it is by far the most common phrase seen on these flags, so I don't find it outrageous that it appears twice. Actually, it appears four times on your flag. The other two instances are written smaller on the left side of the flag. It's possible that the signers were encouraged to write a patriotic phrase along with their signature, and "good luck in battle" is just one fairly benign phrase that most people know. Its relatively neutral, and doesn't hint at any ultra far-right militarism, and isn't hard-coded with any sort of death wish fanaticism.

 

[Jack98]

IWASA is the recipient. MURAKAMI is the (or one of the) givers/presenters.
It is unusual to see this phrase represented twice in large letters, but it is by far the most common phrase seen on these flags, so I don't find it outrageous that it appears twice. Actually, it appears four times on your flag. The other two instances are written smaller on the left side of the flag. It's possible that the signers were encouraged to write a patriotic phrase along with their signature, and "good luck in battle" is just one fairly benign phrase that most people know. Its relatively neutral, and doesn't hint at any ultra far-right militarism, and isn't hard-coded with any sort of death wish fanaticism.

Perfect, thank you again

 

[Jack98]

Hello everyone, I'm bothering you again. I wanted to ask for an opinion on this other flag. Unfortunately the one I was interested in had already been sold and now I found this one. What do you think? Honestly, it seems a little strange to me, but if possible, I would also like to have some other opinions.

 

[Jack98]

And then, there are also these two.

 

[mdchachi]

Hello everyone, I'm bothering you again. I wanted to ask for an opinion on this other flag. Unfortunately the one I was interested in had already been sold and now I found this one. What do you think? Honestly, it seems a little strange to me, but if possible, I would also like to have some other opinions.

Yes, it's strange because it's upside down. I see the year 1937 on it.

 

[Jack98]

Yes, it's strange because it's upside down. I see the year 1937 on it.

Oh ok. Thanks. For you, is the flags authentic? The seller said that the first flag is related to the battle of Shangai.

 

[mdchachi]

Oh ok. Thanks. For you, is the flags authentic? The seller said that the first flag is related to the battle of Shangai.

I'm not an expert. I can only pick out obvious things. Let's wait for @Majestic 's take on it.

 

[Jack98]

Ok, good. In the meantime, here's the straightened image.

 

[Jack98]

?

 

[Majestic]

No, that one doesn't look authentic to me. In the first place, it isn't a "yosegaki". It's just a flag with some phrases and dates written on it. No signatures from any well-wishers or relatives. In the second place, I don't like the looks of the phrases. They seem to have been written by a Chinese-speaking person trying to approximate Japanese words and phrases. Well, I don't know if such a flag would have even been presented to soldier from anyone. Anyway, it doesn't feel authentic to me.

Typically you will find the phrase "Praying for Good Luck in Battle" across the top or down the side, and then the well-wishers would sign the flag, and sometimes add patriotic phrases. Often a mayor or factory boss or school headmaster will sign his name in large letters to indicate the flag was officially presented by the town or the factory. This flag above has none of that. So who gave it? Why was it given? Did all of the soldiers get it? If so, why didn't the commanding officer sign it? Why didn't they use standard Japanese language?

It looks like someone tried to create a flag that somehow is connected to the Nanking Massacre, in order to appeal to collectors who seek out such things.

Of the other two, the one with the four large characters 武 運 長 久 at the four corners of the flag looks the best to me.

 

[Jack98]

No, that one doesn't look authentic to me. In the first place, it isn't a "yosegaki". It's just a flag with some phrases and dates written on it. No signatures from any well-wishers or relatives. In the second place, I don't like the looks of the phrases. They seem to have been written by a Chinese-speaking person trying to approximate Japanese words and phrases. Well, I don't know if such a flag would have even been presented to soldier from anyone. Anyway, it doesn't feel authentic to me.

Typically you will find the phrase "Praying for Good Luck in Battle" across the top or down the side, and then the well-wishers would sign the flag, and sometimes add patriotic phrases. Often a mayor or factory boss or school headmaster will sign his name in large letters to indicate the flag was officially presented by the town or the factory. This flag above has none of that. So who gave it? Why was it given? Did all of the soldiers get it? If so, why didn't the commanding officer sign it? Why didn't they use standard Japanese language?

It looks like someone tried to create a flag that somehow is connected to the Nanking Massacre, in order to appeal to collectors who seek out such things.

Of the other two, the one with the four large characters 武 運 長 久 at the four corners of the flag looks the best to me.

Ok,thanks again. And in that flag Is there a recipient or a giver?

 

[Jack98]

I mean in the flags with the four large characters.

 

[Jack98]

And do the four characters mean Always "Good luck in Battle"?

 

[Majestic]

Yes - that is the meaning of the characters.

It was given by the Young Men's Comrades Association of Tatemikka-machi in Wakamatsu city.

The name next to that association's name is Hashiyata Yoshio, but I'm not sure if its the giver or the receiver or just one of the signees. The name is prominent, but there is no honorific attached to it, so it makes me think its not the receiver. There is no title after it so it makes me think its not the giver. But the position seems too prominent to be a random person's signature. For now I'm guessing its the giver.

 

[Jack98]

Ok, perfect. Thank you like always