Why do you believe or not believe in god?

[Tsuyoiko]

Thanks for the suggestions above Mars. Everyone who's contributed, could you state what you mean by the god you claim to believe or not believe in?

To clarify my own position:

it isn't the mechanics of the note it is the content of the message.

I don't think a rainbow is a message. I think it's a pure accident that just happens to be beautiful.

But why is it there? And why are you there, able to appreciate it?

As Half-n-Half says, if I understand him correctly, that need to know why is just a characteristic of the human mind. The fact that there is no why, no reason, no guiding principle beyond the laws of nature just adds to my feeling of awe when I see something like a rainbow. That something so beautiful could be there without anyones intending it - wow! If I walk through a forest and see a clump of bluebells, I feel much more uplifted to think they just grew there, than if I heard someone planted them.

In other words, I'm more in awe to think there's no god. Prove to me that god created the Universe and I'll feel a bit like I finished a detective novel only to discover that the butler did it

in a way you answered your own question about why the beauty of the rainbow could be god

I agree, that could be god, if you choose to define god that way. Which I guess comes around to what I mean when I say god.

When I first arrived at this forum three years ago, I was just on the verge of abandoning paganism. The remaining question I needed to answer was whether this overwhelming awe I felt in the presence of Nature needed to be attributed to any external force. Was there any reason to believe that some consciousness outside of me had created Nature, and was therefore in some way responsible for my spirituality?

Well, I could see no good reason. Science has perfectly adequate explanations for all those phenomena that so amaze me, any further explanation was unnecessary.

So then I asked, "Well, this feeling inside of me, is that god? Is god a part of me?" But why call that god? I guess you can if you want, but I don't really see the point. It's just a part of me, like an arm, or my sense of smell, or my love of books.

So when I say god, I mean an external consciousness, the kind of being that is worshiped in most religions. Because even though the Judaic god and the gods of Hinduism, Buddhism, ancient Rome etc, differ in crucial ways, they are all seen to be some form of external consciousness. That is the god that I deny the existence of.

 

[Mariat_San]

Science has perfectly adequate explanations for all those phenomena that so amaze me, any further explanation was unnecessary.

Yea, science can explain those phenomena, and many things, we don't understand... it explains the processes and the origins of 'mysteryous' things, but it doesn't explains why those exist.
(Who cares anyway^^ ;-)

 

[Sarapva]

In other words, I'm more in awe to think there's no god. Prove to me that god created the Universe and I'll feel a bit like I finished a detective novel only to discover that the butler did it

So then I asked, "Well, this feeling inside of me, is that god? Is god a part of me?" But why call that god? I guess you can if you want, but I don't really see the point. It's just a part of me, like an arm, or my sense of smell, or my love of books.

This is exactly how I think of God! I believe God is around and in us, not an external "judge". And I can understand your feeling of being more in awe of something that happens to be there instead of intentionally put there. But this is thinking in human terms of controlling and being "higher" than people. I believe that we can't possibly understand the reasons for some (or maybe most) things.

 

[Mitsuo]

Everyone who's contributed, could you state what you mean by the god you claim to believe or not believe in?

As I mentioned earlier, I believed in the God portrayed in the Bible as a child. Even though I never went to church. The Christian God was instilled in me through listening to what believers thought, and I just accepted it. I then, gradually, developed a skeptical way of thinking, during childhood. But now, many, many years later, after I declare my agnostic view, I deny any religious God. I just don't accept any kind of God. But I do imagine that, if there were a creator, it would not be that of any kind of religion. Like Mars Man, I guess I can consider myself a non-theist agnostic. We are the brain, we are the neurons!

 

[Annubis]

Etheric Beings (is this a safe place to be discussing this issue?)

I am refering to Descarte's ether - something extremely rare and subtle like a wind or flame which was spread throughout his "gross parts".

In yoga, this is seen as kundalini energy which travels through the chakras, and the purpose of yoga is to open the chakras and allow that energy to flow.
The chi, ki, or wholy ghost, can be focused to give our souls/spirit/ether great power... in some cases, a power of manifestation, or profecy, or immediate language aquisition, or healing, or etheric communication, etc.

In my opinion this gift is from a star like being composed of matter and ether who resides in a reality that we cannot fathom: This is God.

We are etheric beings. I believe there may be many kinds of etheric beings, not just humans, but angels, demons, jin, etc.

I believe that our body is a quantifiable transducer of the highest form on this earth. It holds a sensitive equilibrium between the etheric world and the physical environment with which we actively coexist.

One may say: "But this is all just speculation. What proof do you have."

I will say that this topic of proof is for another thread! "Prove that God exists" - again, this thread would probably end up going in circles.

I can give an example to prove that the etheric world exists - my father can move the clouds. My father can make it stop raining temporarily. I have this gift to a smaller extent. I can also make pain go away by focusing my energy in one area. I am not a profetional, so it is usually temporary. - one would argue that this is the ether and not God. I will say that this is a small example of what God can do. It requires faith and etheric communications to know with a 100% certainty that God exists.

 

[Chi65]

. . .and I know people that can do the very same (and I am doing Reiki. . .), and tell you it has nothing to do with any god.
Its common old shamanistic practice and known all over.
By the way, have you ever heard about synaesthesia?. . .
If you can "forsee/-feel" a certain event, you can easily do, as if it was you, who caused it.

And for pain relief, there are uncountable effective techniques all over, that work real fine, including Reiki. . .

This does not mean, that I disagree with you, it is in fact safe, relax. I would simply use other words and examples and maybe go back to the beginning of what "angels" were and are supposed to be etc. Its a favourite theme from me ;-)

 

[Annubis]

do you know anyone who communicates with etheric beings?

other than the ones we normally see.

 

[Chi65]

Many times, you should know yourself, by also being an artist ;-)
some manifest, some not, some dissolve.

We say here, "IT paints itself", when really "in tune". . .

but we make no fuss about it.

 

[Annubis]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit of a recluse, and haven't met many people who can do these things. I've met maybe 5 or 6 in my life. I still believe in God because of all these beautiful gifts and the stars and the thunder...etc. Maybe it's because I want someone to thank... hehe... no, I have a lifetime of reasons to believe in God, like many people.

 

[Rioneru]

I do not *currently* believe in God. I say currently only to give credence to how dynamic my most strongly held beliefs have changed in the past 10 years. In my short life, I've experienced what I believe to be reasonable ground for the afterlife and spirits (ghosts have somewhat of a negative connotation), but no God. Despite being baptized as an infant, taken to church as a child, being surrounded by Godly and/or Christian-influence my entire life, I cannot say I feel very compelled to be believe. Even as a child, I felt I was praying to nothingness.

Fast-forward past the reading of the Bible, Qu'ran, and Tanakh. I've delved into everything from Pagan religions to Buddhism. Whether I was reading about being my own God, revering Mother Nature, or submitting to a male likeness of a God, I found that this concept of God or Gods did little for me. To this day, I am more likely to meet discussion of God's existence with understanding of every view, and if poked and prodded enough, cynical questioning.

However, I realize both Science and Religion require faith. You need a "leap of faith" to even postulate theories for science, let alone the theory of singularity.

To put it simply:

Emotionally, I am an atheist.
Logically, I am agnostic.
Wholly, I'm apathetic.

Nothing in my life promotes a need to believe or disprove God with fervor. Its not God I'm concerned with, its those that are so insistent on proving God's existence or lack of existence through extreme measures that tend to worry me.

 

[Ma Cherie]

I'm a bit late on this, but at this point I'm now beginning to question my beliefs in God. At the moment I consider myself a deist, but I'm leaning towards becoming an agnostic and a Unitarian Universalist. Because there are times when I believe there is a God who created the universe, but also at times I believe that it's hard to know if there really is a god or not.

Then I have issues with religions claiming to be the correct one.

 

[Annubis]

I wanted to add, that normally when calling on other powers, I pray to God. Because I believe that it is God's power and not truly my own. Also, discussing communications with other beings is not a good idea. It is the intentions and mind's eye that they read into. They cannot be seen for a reason. I believe that it is God's will, whether they be seen or not. Though, if one communicates with any etheric being, then that being may be given the power to communicate in return, and not all beings are of *heavenly origin. So it is not always safe to communicate with etheric beings. But it is always safe to communicate with God. I am thankful for a heavenly being such as God. That is another reason I believe in God. I like talking to *God!

*HEAVENLY - doing God's will, which in my opinion is good, and filled with love and charity.
*I originally said "him" because it is the norm from ancient times, to consider god as male. But I am not certain if God has a gender.

 

[Mars Man]

Well, Annubis chan, your statements there bring out a lot of questions, I really do feel. I guess it would not be of any great gain, at this point to go into them, but if I may, could I get you give us some precise descriptions?

For example, could you please more concretely describe you idea and mental understanding of "God"? Now YHWH--the god-model that the Jewish religious leaders eventually drew up--was male, you must not be talking about that model, right?

Another is the idea of "heavenly." Could you please describe what you mean by that word, and why you think you have chosen to use that word?

In that this is the Serious Discussions sub-fora, and this is not only an interesting subject, but one of many facets and subsets, I hope you are willing to share with us all in sharpening the iron blades. . .with iron. (using an old Jewish proverb--with iron, iron is sharpened.

 

[thatsme]

I did not read any post on this thread.
But I will answer to the Op question.
My temporary opinion is, we beileve because we are Human, therefore easily indoctrinable, and we don't beileve because we had not the chance to be indoctrinated.
Nothing wrong with either ways.

 

[Annubis]

The Tetragamaton

Yod He Van He: The Tetragammaton or God's name within the Alpha Omega circle of Solomon's Seal, which is a circle around the star of David.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=tetragrammaton

This is an interesting symbol to me, I believe in the ten commandments. This seal is an important aspect of those commandments, such that the third commandment is not to use the name of God in vane. I do feel I have been using it too much on this forum. I rarely even say the word. To me, it is sacrosanct because I have chosen to keep it as such.

I don't and never have had a specific model for God. It is ever changing. Such is my nature and such is life.

If you would like to know my religion, you'd have to become my lifelong companion. I really am a person to person kinda person, and find it difficult to express my beliefs with only words.

Heavenly hunh? Well, I'll have to write you a poem, then. Stay tuned. I'll post it in my JREF blog when I get a chance. Once it is done I will rejoin the discussion.

Finally, I don't like iron, makes me think of weapons and I don't fancy weaponry, unless it's in virtuality! I like copper (conduction, transduction, maleability)! HEHE!!

I'm sorry if my submission is unsatisfactory.

 

[Mars Man]

Thanks for that explanation; it gives me a little more insight. I truely appreciate your efforts, and while, it may not be your style to put your thoughts here into words, I urge you to continue in your exercise with that...making them stronger and stronger, and slowly and surely working with them a sculpture, forming into a more fitting form. 頑張って下さい！ (ganbatte kudasai=keep up the good work!)

Yes, the tetragammaton--if you were to look at post number 113 here you will find where I have given some proof texts for that.

Now, I am at a loss about the alpha and omega circle matter. The Hebrew texts did not use Greek letters, and only some of the latter LXX texts (at least) used any kind of symbol instead of the tetragammaton--some used a form of the Hebrew letters even. So, where did that information come from? I kind of question the validity of that.

Oh...please rest a ease...and assured...you are not using that name in vain here on the forum...or probably anywhere else, unless you are using to make invalid promises and oaths--that's what the original context far more likely than not had meant. What has been taught in Christian circles that stem from the old days of Europe, is incorrect...and has kind of become 'urban legend' (if you will). The idiomatic Hebrew is different, and was misinterpreted due to late Jewish superstition (as that site you quoted pointed out too). So...don't worry. Trust me !

Ok...I'll wait for that poem. Please do let me know when it's ready. In the meantime, YHWH (most used in scholarly works, rather than YHVH) is male, and only male...so if one tries to change that, they no longer have YHWH.

 

[kireikoori]

Heh, in this topic it was written 'god' instead of "God".

As far as a universe creator or "God" I believe that the spiritual matter that created the universe is "God" but that whatever conciousness that spirit had was mostly absorbed into the universe. Mostly.

I believe God IS the universe. But that God is also above and beyond and more enduring than even the universe. And I believe in the Spirit World. So not only is the universe God and very spritual, but there's also a Spirit World. And all sorts of things outside.

So that makes me a Pandeist in my view of "God".
And technically, I think Jesus is God as he claimed. But "thou shalt have no other gods before me"...I dunno...I think Odin is more God than Jesus.

I'm a polytheist too. Most Anismist/Pantheist/Shamanist types are. I believe in avatars and such. Jesus was an avatar, Odin was, Amaterasu, Ukko...all avatars or "gods". All clumps with greater connection to the beyond.

Look at it this way, gods are to spirit as stars are to gravity. And if big enough, it's no longer a star, but a black hole ripping through the already spiritual and made of God universe into the full spirit world, becoming one with a large part of the force of God not limited by the universe. I said a large part because as you know about black holes, they're strong, but they're not the whole universe absorbing. ;]

God is just essence of everything to me, the universe and more. gods are avatars with conciousness. With power over the elements. I believe there are gods for everything. And several for each one. Several gods of war. Several gods of wisdom.

Why do I believe this? Because I'm optimistic. Yup, not sure. But surely there's gotta be something beyond. It feels good and gives me piece of mind to believe this way, in ghosts and spirits and all that. And people I care about claim to have even seen ghost. And the whole of Japan even has a religion to believing in spirits and all that.

To me, there's something to the fact there's a part of our brain for spirituality. Look up the God gene and Neurotheology.
And also, to me life is special and unique. Life takes care of itself, life resproduces, life can be concious. I think there's something special about that, and that it even is a special part of that spirit of the universe. I'm in spiritual awe with life, the universe and everything I enjoy most about the universe and life.

What does that make me? An Atheist? An Agnostic? A Henotheist? A Pantheist? A Deist? A Pandeist? A Pagan? A Shaman? An Animist? A Christian? A Shintoist? An Odinist?

I don't know, you tell me.

 

[Mycernius]

And technically, I think Jesus is God as he claimed.

Jesus was proclaimed as the Son of God. This can be taken two ways. One way is the Christian view is that he was the Son of God, or God in human form, as Christianity is a monothesitc religion. If he was the actual son then it makes christianity a polytheistc faith, as you then have two deities.
Another way is that he was saying he was the son of God as you or I are. According to scripture we are all Gods children, so we are all sons and daughters of God.

But "thou shalt have no other gods before me"...

A sign that early Judaism did believe in the existance of other gods, but Yhwh took precedence over them. If there were no other gods the line, as often misquoted, would be "there are no other gods, but me"

Heh, in this topic it was written 'god' instead of "God".

Depends on which god you talk about. As far as I know convention normally writes God as God if you are using the Judeo-Christian god. Any other is only written as god. Seeing the threads is about the belief in god, not God, I presume that it is talking about a general beliefs in gods, not the Judeo-Christian model.

 

[kireikoori]

Well...that was informative. Well I still think of Jesus as an avatar. Maybe. You know I'm not sure how divinely I view Jesus.

That last topic had me confused all around about this who God/god thing. Well I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian form of God too much. I don't think. I know I don't view the essence of both the universe and the spirit world as Yhwh. And I don't believe tht essence take precidence over them. I believe it's above and beyond, but it's made up of them as well.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

My temporary opinion is, we beileve because we are Human, therefore easily indoctrinable, and we don't beileve because we had not the chance to be indoctrinated.

There's a third possibility - that we were once indoctrinated but saw our way out of it ;-)

Heh, in this topic it was written 'god' instead of "God".

That was intentional. As Mars Man has explained both here and elsewhere, 'god' is non-specific and can refer to a variety of different god-models, whereas 'God' is commonly used to refer to a particular deity, usually YHWH. So I used 'god' so as not to assume we were talking about any particular god-model. On my Satan thread I used God, as there I was talking about a particular god, namely Jehovah.

 

[Mavrek]

The situation is a bit different with me . I can not say completely that I am a believer or non believer , I am still looking for the reality about this subject . Some time it looks me that there is a God because no one can run his/her family affairs with out any system then how this universe be with out any system and care taker . On the other hand I don't see any god or God there .There is no physical evidence of god or God . I need help in this regard .

 

[connor]

This thread is specifically for you to explain why you believe in god or not. I don't mean just to state whether or not you believe, or to argue for or against the existence of god. I'd like to hear people's personal reasons for believing or not.
I've been asked a few times what it would take to convince me that god exists. The answer? Nothing could ever convince me of it. Even if someone were to prove conclusively (and I'm not sure how they could) that some entity created the Universe and put us here by design, even if they could show that this entity has all the qualities usually attributed to god, even if it performed countless 'miracles' right before my eyes, I would still refuse to worship it.
If I refuse to worship it even were its existence proved, then how can it be god?

i believe in god couse how eles could of creating are city and how would any body eles create adam and eve

Yea, science can explain those phenomena, and many things, we don't understand... it explains the processes and the origins of 'mysteryous' things, but it doesn't explains why those exist.
(Who cares anyway^^ ;-)

i dont get what you mean

 

[Chi65]

Kireikoori,
the "avatar" idea appeals to me indeed, even if I say, it can be any avatar and must not be a real one behind. Whatever gives you strength and lets you grow. I only object one avatar to be the only one for all, if you get my point ;-)
I am sure, you do.
Your "and" in many ways is exactly the answer. No exception plus a lot between images, imagination and manifestation, definitely and ever changing, yet with a still center (in my view at least).
I can't care less, how you (one) call these "grapes", as long as you (one is) are wise enough to realise, its "grapes", that people want. . .so the one, who undertands this, goes and buys them for all, and they stop battling about their different "needs" and just share the fruits equally (!) amongst them. . .

There is an according very wise story from the Sufis, BTW. If I find it again, I will post it.
I simply love it!
You will probably too.

 

[Mycernius]

i believe in god couse how eles could of creating are city and how would any body eles create adam and eve

I suggest a good look at evolution and the concept behind it will dispell the myth of Adam and Eve. Along with that compare it with plenty of other creation myths around the world and then tell me which one is true.

 

[Chi65]

If I may say something at this point:

I just make my own pictures, but enjoy others as well ;-). . .
(OK, painters and storytellers etc.. . .)