Thank you. Now, could you please explain the point of posting that? What was it meant to explain or back up?
---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------
I feel like quoting myself with regards to the science of this, however I won't since I know you have already read it, and disregarded it as not being self serving enough to warrant attention.
Believe me dude, I reject nothing out of hand. I reject things for reasons. I will be perfectly happy to have a look at any links you have or anything that backs up your beliefs. Just be warned now that there are people calling themselves scientists who are in name only, and were made in the mold of John Harvey Kellogg, who promoted cold breakfast cereals in the belief they reduce those nasty intolerable sexual feelings.
John Harvey Kellogg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He warned that many types of sexual activity, including many "excesses" that couples could be guilty of within marriage, were against nature, and therefore, extremely unhealthy. He drew on the warnings of William Acton and expressed support for the work of Anthony Comstock. He appears to have followed his own advice; it has been suggested he worked on Plain Facts during his honeymoon.[19]
He was an especially zealous campaigner against masturbation; this was an orthodox view during his lifetime, especially the earlier part. Kellogg was able to draw upon many medical sources' claims such as "neither the plague, nor war, nor small-pox, nor similar diseases, have produced results so disastrous to humanity as the pernicious habit of onanism," credited to one Dr. Adam Clarke.
Several nuts are mentioned above. Kellogg was one who worked at a sanitarium but should have been a resident. The guy used to apply carbolic acid to women's clitorises as treatment. What astounds me is that people think such nutjobs do not exist today or have no influence. If that were true,there is no way a psychological study could be officially condemned by an act of congress.
Rind et al. controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And never mind that studies both before and after have backed up the findings. Just focus on the fact that the U.S. Congress actually took the time to condemn a peer reviewed piece of research.
Go ahead. Post links. I dare you to stick your neck out. Everyone can see that I have.
---------- Post added at 22:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------
How many people have lost their virginity at that age due to peer pressure etc
Absolutely. This is why adults need to be more involved in the sex lives of young people, and i mean that in all senses of being involved. Since young people are pretty much left to their own devices, peer pressure can have massive influence. But if anyone is going to say to a child or teen to find someone who cares about them to give their virginity to, and not to the butthole football captain, its more likely to be an adult isn't it? I can totally imagine a thirty year old boyfriend of a teenager, turning to her girlfriends and saying something like that at the right moment. I have more trouble imagining a teen boyfriend doing that.
there are a fair amount of people who wish they had waited until they were a bit older or with a different person and if the age consent law provides some people with a method of delaying this then its a good thing.
Seems somewhat contradictory. If there are a fair amount of such people, then how many are the age of consent helping? Seems to me the age of consent is doing more to foster poor circumstances of people's first time.
When people say they wish they had waited, I doubt it seriously. They use the term "waited" but is that what they really mean? In fact, they may have been happier with their first time if they had had it SOONER, but just with a different and better person. But unless you get into the nuts and bolts of why they say they regret their first time, you cannot judge by the standardized statement of "I wish I had waited". Waited for what? 9 times out of ten, I bet it was for someone better. But the actual waiting is not what counted. It was the better partner that counted.
As above but I would again guess that there is much more scope to apply pressure on the younger member of the relationship to do something they are not yet really wanting to do. Equally I don't magically think this changes the day the guy reaches 16....
I take this to mean that you think teen peer pressure is not as strong as the pressure an older person can exert. I agree. The trouble is that it also sounds like older people, especially men, are inclined to use that pressure and use it maliciously and selfishly. I do not hold this view of most men. I know such men exist, and I hate each and every one of them. But I prefer to weed them out of the mix than to treat all men as potential abusers.
3) I don't think I can even answer 3) as I really have no comprehension of how 11 year olds work. I guess I can only bring this to my experience as an eleven year old...
All eleven year olds are different. I started puberty about ten and had my first orgasm before that. I strongly desired adult women and the more mature looking girls at my schools. From then onwards to 23 were bitter years. I wanted sex, but the most I got was a single BJ at 20 and literally seconds of embarassing sex at 19. Without the benefit of a time machine I think the odds are those would have been much happier years if I had had several sex partners of just about any age.
In fact, I am envious of those who say they regret losing their virginity at 14! (Another misleading statement! Do they regret losing their virginity at the time, or just the circumstances?) I lost my virginity at 19, and I regret it because it sucked! I was drunk and she was definitely not the right person.
I first drove a car when I was eleven. It was a Citroen Pony. I drove it in Corfu. They made me wait for another 6 years before they let me on the road. The bastards! That law should go! Actually I don't believe that at all. Yes I knew I wanted to drive that car. Yes, I just about had the tools to do the job. But there was no way I was responsible enough to be left alone with something like that. I'm 38 now and people are still saying the same thing about me. This is true for driving and sex.
I began driving a lawn mower at around 11. Not counting my crazy step father having me take the wheel from the passenger seat sometimes from around 10, the first time I drove was a pick-up around a parking lot at 14. I got my license at 16. I was not really in a hurry to get a license or a car before 16. I don't remember any feelings of anger over having to wait for my license. What I do remember is being annoyed that when all friends got licenses, they also got cars, and I didn't.
So I guess my view is that if one is raised in an environment of tolerance, fairness, equality and EXPERIENCE that one won't be such an overconfident hotshot itching to harm themselves.
While I understand your point that everybody is different and so putting people into compartments based on age is unfair, surely the laws are there for protection and as such their main aim is a good thing?
Protection from what? It seems we got pulled back down into the pit of "sex is dangerous" again. I don't think it is. Regrets don't make sex dangerous, and I think the laws on consent, such as they are written and enforced, are a source of regret.
However there was the point about protection from pressure from older people who may have more ability to wield it. Yes, the AOC can protect from them. But that does not mean there cannot be a better way. In fact, I think any fool could sit down and suss out a better way over lunch.
Do you have this same view on all laws?
The most general view of law that I have is that practically all can be improved, and so many have been since ancient times. The second general view I have is that while laws have changed, that does not necessarily mean they improved. I see the high age of consent in many places to be a step backward.
I have had a lot of additional training at driving and riding at high speeds, but I still need to follow a speed limit? That should be changed right? Its not fair that we are all lumped in one catagory.
The trouble with that analogy is that you cannot have cars on the same road at the same time all driving at extreme differences in speed. But you could have different ages of consent applicable for different people. There is plenty of time to sort people based on their history and a psyche eval or interview. There probably won't be time to sort out 20 cars traveling between 20 and 100 mph in the space of 100 meters.
Yes the laws are flawed but they are put in place to try to provide some protection to the vunerable. I don't think vunerability is related to age either but in this case it does provide some people with some protection and that is really all it is trying to do?
I think it is definitely possible to over-play the vulnerability card. We always hear about the teen runaway who ended up being pimped out by a guy who also made her a drug addict. We hardly ever hear about Myra Gale Brown who got married at 13 and turned out okay. Her husband got talked about more, which of course shows just how much society really cares about the vulnerable.
In fact, most cases I hear of and know about concerning the age of consent hardly ever give enough details to show that anyone was abused for being vulnerable. We just live in an age of moral panic about the issue, and where the press leaves enormous holes in the plot, society fills it with demons. This is aided by the fact that when these cases hit the courts and the press, the identity of the minor is protected. That way nobody can say, "Oh, yeah, Sally. She is the same girl who blew all the jocks in 8th grade. Who cares that she slept with a teacher in ninth! He was a nice guy and probably treated her better than her own father!" No. Instead you get a narrative about the poor virgin waif that the nasty teacher raped. If you care to examine so many of these articles on such issues, the lack of detail is as startling as the comments that follow filling in the details with the most horrible and lurid imaginings.
A popular missing detail is whether or not the younger party complained, because usually, they didn't. It was parents or some jealous classmate who blabbed, or something like that.
Out of interest, if you were running your own country, Zorrotopia, how would you deal with this issue? Just ignore it and say that everyone is wise enough to look after themselves?
A full answer will require a new thread. But believe me, my idea is not to make a free for all, but rather to over-haul the entire legal system. In fact, some of my ideas will scare you for seeming too strict and invasive, but I assure you, the level playing field and right to privacy will make everything smooth and tolerable. But rest assured, I do not dream of lawlessness.
