What can we learn from the Japanese education system?

GaijinPunch said:

From what I know of the situation (which is only based on reading), the system is broken b/c

1: Students are fed facts... not trained to think.

2: School prepares them for absolutely nothing other than how to sit there and shut up (something they will do while playing Minesweeper when they get into the real world).

3: Your kid is completely screwed if he goes to the wrong preschool.

I've become a bit of a non-traditionalist when it comes to work these days... and school in Japan is pretty much the same as a company.

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Add that school exists to build a a false sense of self-esteem in kids that is not based on accomplishment, and you have also summed up the American education system.

As for the problems and difficulties in Japanese society, and accrediting them to the school system, well, that sort of connection is unavoidable. But, like in the U.S., the society feeds back into the education system, and like the Laws of Thermodynamics, the closed system is constantly loosing energy and decaying. Entropy is taking over. As an historian, I imagine this is an inevitablility in cultural evolution and development. But I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, the education system, then, does exactly what it is supposed to do. Which is exactly the same thing as Frederick the Great of Prussia designed it to do: create expendible grunts, officers who buy into the system, and ostracizing those who refuse to accept the system.

The school system of the modern era is extremely different from the ancient academies or medieval/renaissance universities. It is designed specifically to do what it is doing, and it is doing it well.

If we don't like the results, both Americans and Japanese, we should completely revamp the system. But there are too many in both cultures who benefit from the current system, or have a lot to lose from change. Thus, there will never be a big enough push in either culture to set the system right.

Comparing America's education system to the laws of thermodynamics? Frederick the Great of Prussia? I can't tell if the above post is actually serious or if he's just winding everyone up. Maybe we need sarcasm stickers for our posts, because I can't even tell anymore.

That's a really good idea basuotoko...

basuotoko said:

Comparing America's education system to the laws of thermodynamics? Frederick the Great of Prussia? I can't tell if the above post is actually serious or if he's just winding everyone up. Maybe we need sarcasm stickers for our posts, because I can't even tell anymore.

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I'm not being sarcastic. The current school system was designed by Frederick the Great of Prussia. And the laws of thermodynamics are referenced because you can see them operating not only in the realm of physics but, ironically, in societies as well.

If you think I'm stupid, well, fine.

Dumbing Us Down and Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto both delve into a lot of the problems of the American education system, and many of these problems seem to rear their ugly heads in the Japanese system as well, only they have different impacts on Japanese culture.

GodEmperorLeto said:

Dumbing Us Down and Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto both delve into a lot of the problems of the American education system, and many of these problems seem to rear their ugly heads in the Japanese system as well, only they have different impacts on Japanese culture.

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Since this thread was started to discuss the negative effects of the Japanese system, not the American one, perhaps you could enlighten us with some of those "ugly heads" in Japan.

Ultraman said:

Japanese school churns out kids suitable for Japanese companies.

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Ah, fixed!

Good at churning out people who do not complain, who will do as they are told, for as long as they are told, and will work even if its means they are physically and emotionally sapped.

Actually there are some good things about the Japanese system. The focus on hard work and discipline help to build a good mindset that discourages laziness and spoiled brat/bad boy behavior (unless the parents want their kids to be like that). In addition all that busy time spent studying, etc means less time fooling around or doing drugs. Also the teachers seem a little more dedicated to helping the students then the American teachers who mostly care about their pensions. There is an article from spice at Stanford that provides a great description of the Japanese education system IMO. Unfortunately I can't link it here but you can search Japanese high school stanford on google to find it.

But there is very little real-life social development going on, not enough practical skills being taught, no mention of sex ed (c'mon I watched a film of how babies are made and born in graphic detail in elementary school), a really stupid and narrow assumption that this is a must have school needed to get a good job and everything else is a loser. and a bit too much recitation and not enough creative energy being used. That said I wish I went to high school in Japan instead of America, I would have loved the clubs and the group activites. And I wouldn't mind if I have children to send them to Japanese high schools either, they wouldn't need to worry about college or jobs. Maybe its because I'm an American but if I have children with a Japanese wife they would be US citizens and can go to American schools like Harvard or MIT. Its funny but noone mentioned that these snobbish Japanese companies would fight with each other to hire a Harvard diploma over a Todai one without a second thought. Tokyo Univ. degree is good only in Japan, Harvard or any other American degrees are good over the world. I have an uncle who had a Masters from an average school who got hired into a senior management position in a Japanese firm who had a whole group of locals work for him.

Glenski said:

Since this thread was started to discuss the negative effects of the Japanese system, not the American one, perhaps you could enlighten us with some of those "ugly heads" in Japan.

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Sorry to respond so late.

Granted, when it comes to Japan, this is something that I have only second-hand information on, not direct observation, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Frederick the Great of Prussia created the school system specifically for the purpose of de-Christianizing his Lutheran population (i.e. do away with religious objections to his military programs), and effectively brainwash the populace into being cogs in a machine. The system is designed to create unquestioning foot-soldiers and officers.

This seems to actually fit into the current perception of Japanese culture. I hear many Westerners in Japan comment that they are all cogs in a machine, something that seems to definitely fit into Frederick's conception of what schools are supposed to create. Schools in America are notorious for not teaching people how to think, and based on what I've heard from both Japanese students and Westerners living in Japan, I can only assume that Japanese schools are just as bad, if not worse.

Like I said, I've not been there myself, so my conclusions are going to be somewhat flawed. And I only have direct experience with schooling in America to go on.

I'm going on to quote Ewok's comment here:

Good at churning out people who do not complain, who will do as they are told, for as long as they are told, and will work even if its means they are physically and emotionally sapped.

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If that is not how a "good" soldier will behave, I don't know what is. This describes Frederick's aims better than I could.

Considering the cultural differences between Japan and the United States, I can see how the school system could have different impacts on the society, but the core problems are definitely there, and they do have a direct impact on society as a whole. If that doesn't clarify what I'm trying to elucidate, well, I can only apologize for my rhetorical deficiencies. I have too many thoughts and too little time to get them all down.

tohno-kun said:

Actually there are some good things about the Japanese system. The focus on hard work and discipline help to build a good mindset that discourages laziness and spoiled brat/bad boy behavior (unless the parents want their kids to be like that). In addition all that busy time spent studying, etc means less time fooling around or doing drugs. Also the teachers seem a little more dedicated to helping the students then the American teachers who mostly care about their pensions.

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Well, that doesn't sound biased at all. I didn't think anyone could make observations about what's good about the Japanese education system without ever even stepping foot in the country, but there you have it.

After working part time alongside Japanese teachers at a middle school for one year, I didn't get the impression that they were any more dedicated to helping their students than my teachers were in American high school. They do work longer hours, but as anyone who has ever worked in Japan should realize, longer hours doesn't necessarily mean more output.

And kids are going to be "spoiled brats" pretty much wherever you go -- trust me, Japan is no exception. For many teens (and adults), there's hardly anything more important in life than the latest cell phone or Louis Vuitton handbag.

In my opinion, maybe Japan should relax a little and not indoctrinate their children with this "work until you drop" mentality. Have you ever heard the Japanese word, "karoshi"? It means death from overwork, and it actually happens!

In the West, most of us have time in the evening and on the weekend to relax and be lazy, because we can afford to. I think a lot of that can be attributed to our efficiency at work and our mindsets. If they'd only encourage free thinking over rote memorization and ideas like "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down," maybe the Japanese could afford to be a little lazy too.

Who cleans the school toilet in your country?
If kids don't do it, it may be an idea to suggest it.

[q]In the West, most of us have time in the evening and on the weekend to relax and be lazy, because we can afford to. I think a lot of that can be attributed to our efficiency at work and our mindsets. If they'd only encourage free thinking over rote memorization and ideas like "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down," maybe the Japanese could afford to be a little lazy too.[/q]

I definitely agree. A few of my Japanese friends struggle at school because of this. They are too stressed and feel as though they are failing their classes simply because they don't have the time to relax and take time to "soak in" the information. It's all work. Work. Work.