Urgent help with my sentence structuring

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

My english sentence was suppose to be something like, "the library also has a cafe, though the drinks are good but the food is okay. Though you can't bring the food up in the private study rooms, even though it would be better if you can eat it in the library I think."

And I somehow translated it like this, "図書館にはきっさてんもあります。このきっさてんの飲み物をおいしだ、でも食べ物がちょっとままです。それにプィペトルームに中を食べ物を持っているはだめ。けど図書館の中で食べればいいなと思って"

I know I made a lot of mistakes but no matter what I do, I can't make it in a casual speech form. I really need help.

mdchachi · 16 Oct 2015

It would help you create clear sentences in Japanese if your English was correct and clear in the first place.
What is your goal? I mean what do you mean by "casual speech form"?

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

mdchachi said:
It would help you create clear sentences in Japanese if your English was correct and clear in the first place.
What is your goal? I mean what do you mean by "casual speech form"?

...I suppose that my English grammar needs work as well, but was it really that unclear? The food is okay, and I think it would be better if you can bring the food in the private study room. Because then you would not have to look for places to eat.
Now it's just different than my original sentence lol But this one makes more sense.

What I meant by casual speech is the informal speaking terms.

lanthas · 16 Oct 2015

きっさてん is not really the word to use for a library cafetaria I think; check Google Images to get an idea of the atmosphere of the places it refers to. For this scenario, I'd use 食堂 (しょくどう) instead.

Apart from that the sentence is indeed littered with mistakes as you feared, even some spelling errors which should be easy to prevent... Why is it urgent, is it for homework?

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

lanthas said:
きっさてん is not really the word to use for a library cafetaria I think; check Google Images to get an idea of the atmosphere of the places it refers to. For this scenario, I'd use 食堂 (しょくどう) instead.

Apart from that the sentence is indeed littered with mistakes as you feared, even some spelling errors which should be easy to prevent... Why is it urgent, is it for homework?

My library does have a café though, a good earth to be exact lol
I figured as much, tried for days trying to get it right, and yes it is. For a presentation to be exact.

mdchachi · 16 Oct 2015

Hopefully this will help you.

図書館にはきっさてんもあります。This works.
このきっさてんの飲み物がおいしい、（だ not needed because you are ending the sentence with an adjective)
でも食べ物がちょっとまあまあだ。(For casual, use だ instead of です）
ちょっとまあまあ is understandable but not what you'd typically say. いまいち would sound better.
それにプライベートルームの中に食べ物を持っていくのはだめだ。 (for "bring to" 持っていく is better).
けど図書館の中で食べればいいなと思う (If you leave it as 思って, it's not a complete sentence).

If it's for a presentation, you typically wouldn't want it to be casual. Or is that the assignment?

lanthas · 16 Oct 2015

Even then there are still mistakes left .
When translating "but", でも is for the start of the sentence and けど is for the middle/end - this text has it reversed. (Also, after fixing this, pay attention to the placement of けど: unlike English, where "but" is placed after the comma, in Japanese けど is placed before).
食べれば is simply the conditional of "to eat", i.e. not the intended "to be able to eat".

mdchachi · 16 Oct 2015

lanthas said:
Even then there are still mistakes left .

Can't make it perfect. The teacher will catch on.

Toritoribe · 16 Oct 2015

evalyn said:
My english sentence was suppose to be something like, "the library also has a cafe, though the drinks are good but the food is okay. Though you can't bring the food up in the private study rooms, even though it would be better if you can eat it in the library I think."

And I somehow translated it like this, "図書館にはきっさてんもあります。このきっさてんの飲み物をおいしだ、でも食べ物がちょっとままです。それにプィペトルームに中を食べ物を持っているはだめ。けど図書館の中で食べればいいなと思って"

I know I made a lot of mistakes but no matter what I do, I can't make it in a casual speech form. I really need help.

As already pointed out, you can easily check if the words such like おいし, まま or プィペトルーム exist or not.
I would use 喫茶室 and 個室 for cafe and private study room, respectively.

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

mdchachi said:
Hopefully this will help you.

図書館にはきっさてんもあります。This works.
このきっさてんの飲み物がおいしい、（だ not needed because you are ending the sentence with an adjective)
でも食べ物がちょっとまあまあだ。(For casual, use だ instead of です）
ちょっとまあまあ is understandable but not what you'd typically say. いまいち would sound better.
それにプライベートルームの中に食べ物を持っていくのはだめだ。 (for "bring to" 持っていく is better).
けど図書館の中で食べればいいなと思う (If you leave it as 思って, it's not a complete sentence).

If it's for a presentation, you typically wouldn't want it to be casual. Or is that the assignment?

I'm sorry I didn't get to respond for a while, I was in class.
Oh yeah, I remember that da ending is for Na adjectives, I'm sorry I keep forgetting. To rephrase everything it should be, "このきっさてんの飲み物がおいしい, でも食べ物がちょっといまいち。それにプライベートルームの中に食べ物を持っていくのはだめだ。でも、図書館の中で食べればいいなと思う"

Thank you very much, I was stuck on the to being verb for a long time. And I think she'll allow us to use casual form for our presentation. She just wants a presentable presentation.

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

lanthas said:
Even then there are still mistakes left .
When translating "but", でも is for the start of the sentence and けど is for the middle/end - this text has it reversed. (Also, after fixing this, pay attention to the placement of けど: unlike English, where "but" is placed after the comma, in Japanese けど is placed before).
食べれば is simply the conditional of "to eat", i.e. not the intended "to be able to eat".

I know right lol My grammar is just... yeah lol Oh so instead of using baii I should use potential form?

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

Toritoribe said:
As already pointed out, you can easily check if the words such like おいし, まま or プィペトルーム exist or not.
I would use 喫茶室 and 個室 for cafe and private study room, respectively.

She said we can use Katakana for the words we don't know yet, but thank you very much. I will add it on.

mdchachi · 16 Oct 2015

カフェ is a good word to use here. It fits better and is a common word in Japan.

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

mdchachi said:
カフェ is a good word to use here. It fits better and is a common word in Japan.

Okay, thank you very much. I have a few more smaller questions. I'm sorry if I'm bothering you. When you present pictures on the screen because you're showing an example from the previous sentence, do you use the words 見てください or ほら like this. Not sure if there's a word for like this in Japanese.

Toritoribe · 16 Oct 2015

evalyn said:
She said we can use Katakana for the words we don't know yet

I'm talking about the inaccuracy of the transliteration of "private room"; プィペトルーム vs. プライベートルーム. You can find プライベート in the dictionary, by the way.

Here's my attempt.
図書館には喫茶室もあります。飲み物はおいしいんですが、食べ物は微妙です。それと、個室に食べ物を持って行くことができません。図書館の中で食べられればもっといいんですが。

evalyn said:
Okay, thank you very much. I have a few more smaller questions. I'm sorry if I'm bothering you. When you present pictures on the screen because you're showing an example from the previous sentence, do you use the words 見てください or ほら like this. Not sure if there's a word for like this in Japanese.

こちらをご覧ください。 / これを見てください。
Do not use ほら. It sounds rather rude.

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

Toritoribe said:
I'm talking about the inaccuracy of the transliteration of "private room"; プィペトルーム vs. プライベートルーム. You can find プライベート in the dictionary, by the way.

Here's my attempt.
図書館には喫茶室もあります。飲み物はおいしいんですが、食べ物は微妙です。それと、個室に食べ物を持って行くことができません。図書館の中で食べられればもっといいんですが。

こちらをご覧ください。 / これを見てください。
Do not use ほら. It sounds rather rude.

I'll make a longer reply when I return home. I'm sorry for the incontinence but thank you very much for replying.

mdchachi · 16 Oct 2015

evalyn said:
I'm sorry for the incontinence

It's nothing to apologize for. You can't help your medical conditions.

Majestic · 16 Oct 2015

evalyn said:
but was it really that unclear?

Yes. Its comprehensible, in a way, but holy smokes!

"Though" ought to be used (once per sentence) to contrast one thing with another. Usually one negative thing with a positive thing. You've got it used in the first sentence with another contrast marker ("but"), so it makes the whole thing lopsided, as if you don't know what you are contrasting. You only need one contrast marker. (Though the drinks are good, the food is only average. Or: The drinks are good, but the food is average). In the second sentence you are using the contrast marker twice, which, again, leaves the whole sentence without purpose, because you are not contrasting anything. You are just making two complaints. The whole thing needs a rewrite.

The library has a cafe. Though the drinks are good, the food is below average. Also, you can't bring the food into the private rooms. It would be better if you could eat the food in the library, I think.

Apologies for side-tracking this otherwise informative thread about Japanese sentence construction. However, there is another lesson here in that clear sentence structure in English (or whatever source language) will always help you construct clear Japanese sentences. Are you hoping to show the good points and the bad points of the library and cafe, or are you just listing the things that you think would make the cafe better? (← Just a rhetorical question. No need to reply.)

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

mdchachi said:
It's nothing to apologize for. You can't help your medical conditions.

You know that actually hurt.. I'm sorry that I was typing fast. But thanks for the help.

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

Majestic said:
Yes. Its comprehensible, in a way, but holy smokes!

"Though" ought to be used (once per sentence) to contrast one thing with another. Usually one negative thing with a positive thing. You've got it used in the first sentence with another contrast marker ("but"), so it makes the whole thing lopsided, as if you don't know what you are contrasting. You only need one contrast marker. (Though the drinks are good, the food is only average. Or: The drinks are good, but the food is average). In the second sentence you are using the contrast marker twice, which, again, leaves the whole sentence without purpose, because you are not contrasting anything. You are just making two complaints. The whole thing needs a rewrite.

The library has a cafe. Though the drinks are good, the food is below average. Also, you can't bring the food into the private rooms. It would be better if you could eat the food in the library, I think.

Apologies for side-tracking this otherwise informative thread about Japanese sentence construction. However, there is another lesson here in that clear sentence structure in English (or whatever source language) will always help you construct clear Japanese sentences. Are you hoping to show the good points and the bad points of the library and cafe, or are you just listing the things that you think would make the cafe better? (← Just a rhetorical question. No need to reply.)

I'll read your entire post later. Thanks for the input.

mdchachi · 16 Oct 2015

evalyn said:
You know that actually hurt.. I'm sorry that I was typing fast. But thanks for the help.

Just joking. It was a funny error.

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

Majestic said:
Yes. Its comprehensible, in a way, but holy smokes!

"Though" ought to be used (once per sentence) to contrast one thing with another. Usually one negative thing with a positive thing. You've got it used in the first sentence with another contrast marker ("but"), so it makes the whole thing lopsided, as if you don't know what you are contrasting. You only need one contrast marker. (Though the drinks are good, the food is only average. Or: The drinks are good, but the food is average). In the second sentence you are using the contrast marker twice, which, again, leaves the whole sentence without purpose, because you are not contrasting anything. You are just making two complaints. The whole thing needs a rewrite.

The library has a cafe. Though the drinks are good, the food is below average. Also, you can't bring the food into the private rooms. It would be better if you could eat the food in the library, I think.

Apologies for side-tracking this otherwise informative thread about Japanese sentence construction. However, there is another lesson here in that clear sentence structure in English (or whatever source language) will always help you construct clear Japanese sentences. Are you hoping to show the good points and the bad points of the library and cafe, or are you just listing the things that you think would make the cafe better? (← Just a rhetorical question. No need to reply.)

When I write my sentences I tend to write what I think, instead of writing it correctly. Your paragraph makes a lot more sense than what I was trying to get at, and it is exactly how I wanted to translate my Japanese sentences.

I was hoping to form some positive and negatives about the library.

Mike Cash · 16 Oct 2015

The English in your original looks like something from someone who learned English as an adult immigrant. Is English your native language?

RaineyPriest · 16 Oct 2015

Mike Cash said:
The English in your original looks like something from someone who learned English as an adult immigrant. Is English your native language?

No it's not, my first language was Chinese.

Mike Cash · 16 Oct 2015

evalyn said:
No it's not, my first language was Chinese.

When you pay attention to what you're doing, your English is superb. When you don't pay attention (as in the original example) it is wretched.

Urgent help with my sentence structuring

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