Universal Japan-Bashing - An Analysis

[InvisibleSkyMagician]

In my experience, Japan-bashing comes from 4 main sources which I will detail:

China: Self-explanatory really. Until very recently, China was a very stagnant economy and even more stagnant society (in terms of civil and human rights). Since the reality of the present is so bad, let's dwell on the past. As a casual observer of internet forums, you will no doubt encounter Chinese people on there. A common link between Chinese internet users is that they always talk about the past. Most common topics include Mother China's glorious thousand years old history and the many stuff China invented back then. Not now... BACK THEN.

It's not all good in China's past of course and these are conveniently ignored or apologized for. Whether it's the Tiananmen Square Massacres, Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution (which led to a near-unprecedented amount of deaths) or the many bloody and violent civil wars, to the Chinese mind, these are best not talked about. Let's focus on the good only and shut the mouths of people who talk the bad.

With one exception.

But there IS one thing that unites Chinese people (mainly mainlanders and mainlanders living in foreign countries): Their hatred of Japan in the past, Japan in the present and likely, Japan in the future. Just slip in the word Japan to any conversation and Chinese people everywhere will climb over themselves to remind you of Japan's WW2 atrocities in China and how they should grovel, apologize and plead for forgiveness.

Somehow I don't think an official apology will please them so easily and so fast so I think you'll hear about Japan's bad deeds for a long time yet.

America: To be more precise, I'm talking about the sons, daughters, friends and family of the World War 2 veterans and society, in general.

As we all know, Japan did a few things too to America, the Pearl Harbor attacks being the most well known one.

While the veterans more or less, have accepted the past and look to the future where America and Japan have good diplomatic relations, other people are continuing the hate on Japan. These people still view Japan as the violent and barbaric baby-stabbing imperialist nation instead of the mainly moderate society that it is today.

Which is quite ironic seeing that it is now America who have transformed into the imperialist that they were trying to fight back in WW2.

Why they continue the fight against Japan is beyond me right now, but in the current times, it is clear which of the two nations is the bigger terrorist (I'm ignoring the Hiroshima/Nagasaki and the subsequent fire-bombings for now, a direct and calculated attack on innocent Japanese civilians instead of doing the "right" thing and bombing a military target).

Australia: Yep, that little country down under has a little bit of hate for Japan since they were involved with fighting against Japan too.

The way of hate against Japan is similar to America, they are continuing the fight and taking over the WW2 veterans. And again, the Japan they supposedly hate is no longer the Japan that Japan currently is.

What I would like to talk about is how they communicate their hatred against Japan without appearing xenophobic or the like. They do this via the whaling issue.

Truth be told, nobody really cares that much about the whales. It's just another example of fake sympathy so common in the media and in society. So what does this have to do with Japan? Simple: The anti-whaling crowd are criticizing and hating on Japan, using the whaling issue as the proxy.

Never mind the fact that Japan is whaling LEGALLY, otherwise the nation would have been completely sued by now. But hey, why let facts get in the way of Japan-bashing?

The Anti-anime (and other Japanese things) Crowd: What's this you ask? As we all know, in terms of popular culture, Japan is very popular these days. Whether we're talking about anime, manga (comic books), Japanese-pop songs, Japanese girls, Japanese cell phones, Japanese cars, Japanese movies... the list goes on. If we're talking about the "cool" market, Japan has got it covered.

Of course, like anything else, if something becomes popular, then there will also be a growing anti-crowd. These people usually don't have any logical reason for hating Japan, they just hate Japan because everyone else likes it and it became popular.

Additionally, this anti-feeling can also be explained by nationalism, the simple "local = good, foreign = bad and evil" way of thinking. The fact that many Japanese stuff is objectively better than the local variant renders this way of thinking even more obselete and silly.

Depending on the forum, you'd be forgiven if you thought the anti-Japanese-stuff crowd was the majority. I'd simply equate them as a vocal minority with deeper insecurity problems.

 

[FrustratedDave]

What about the United Kindom?

 

[InvisibleSkyMagician]

I don't know about the UK. I live in Canada and we don't really hate anyone. Based on my conversations though, the Chinese Canadian population tends to share the above views.

 

[master-ling]

I'm from Chinese decent and up to this day my family HATE the Japanese people, reason being that during the 2nd sino war we were forced to leave Guang dong in fear of the Japanese oppression (sending my grandmother mad in the process as she had to hide in a cesspool to escape being raped). To this day if you ask almost any person of Chinese decent in the Caribbean what do they feel towards the Japanese people they would reply with such sentences as "Japanese dogs" or just spit.

With that said I study Japanese here and my family just doesn't talk about it as they have their views and I have mines. But that doesn't mean that I don't feel some grudge towards the Japanese of old.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I don't know about the UK. I live in Canada, and we don't really hate anyone. Based on my conversations, the Chinese Canadian population tends to share the above views.

Funny, that flag under the name says the UK? And I have never heard a Canadian say racist comments toward a Japanese person...


You, lumping people into groups and singling out countries is racist, wouldn't you think?

 

[MTR]

What about Korea?

 

[Trollhattan]

Korea has always been the number source of animosity towards Japan & Japanese.There are some young Hong Kong Chinese are fond of Japanese.

I say to both Koreans and Chinese,it's about time to lighten up and look forward to the future instead of looking backward.

 

[InvisibleSkyMagician]

Funny, that flag under name says UK?

I don't know where to change the flag.

You ,lumping people into groups and singleing out countries is being racist, wouldn't you think?

If you disagree with my observations and you believe they are wrong, you can try to prove me wrong.

What about Korea?

Somehow that country slipped my head while I was writing that post. Koreans are just as venomous against Japan like the Chinese, if not more. I'll have to update my post.

Korea has always been the number source of animosity towards Japan & Japanese.There are some young Hong Kong Chinese are fond of Japanese.

From my observations, Hong Kong Chinese and Taiwanese Chinese tend to have a more favorable view of Japan than the mainlanders.

I say to both Koreans and Chinese,it's about time to lighten up and look forward to the future instead of looking backward.

As bad their past sufferings were, sooner or later, they're just going to have to learn to get over it. It's the only logical and progressive choice.

 

[FrustratedDave]

What is the point of your post? What do you hope to acheive from it? Not everyone in the countries you have stated are the way you are describing them, so why label them as so? I don't need proof to say that not every American or Australian is racist towards Japanese, impling that the country as a whole is racist towards Japan needs proof, not the other way around....

There will always be racist people in the world , no one is deniing that, but why single out only those countries? Either you are very ignorant or you have not thought through what you are posting...

 

[Emoni]

This is like a giant self-perpetuating orgasm of generalizations rolled into a single thread.

Putting the word "analysis" in the topic is akin to putting the word "healthy" on a McDonald's menu.

 

[Elizabeth]

As we all know, Japan did a few things too to America, the Pearl Harbor attacks being the most well known one.

Yes, of course the American Powers had to be weakened. They were all that was standing in the way of an invasion and occupation of the whole of SE Asia (Burma, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Indonesia, the Philippines...Thais even today must be the lone population that loves the Japanese over that peace treaty...)

While the veterans more or less, have accepted the past and look to the future where America and Japan have good diplomatic relations, other people are continuing the hate on Japan. These people still view Japan as the violent and barbaric baby-stabbing imperialist nation instead of the mainly moderate society that it is today.

Talk about pot calling kettle. lol There are vets from the Pacific war theater that will hate all Japanese to the day they die, but they vast majority of those are now gone. With the popularity of anime and cars, the average U.S. citizen today, if anything, probably views it as a country of tremendous techological development living by a stricter code of "East Asian" morality. So there is always the potential for a positive upswing, but as for now I would say most Americans are nothing more than solidly neutral towards Japan and the Japanese people.

 

[InvisibleSkyMagician]

What is the point of your post?

To express my views, just like any other post on any other forum.

What do you hope to acheive from it?

A good debate.

Not everyone in the countries you have stated are the way you are describing them, so why label them as so?

One problem with your question: You are putting words into my mouth. I did not say EVERYONE in those countries share the same views. To hold an extreme position such as this is irresponsible and false.

I don't need proof to say that not every American or Australian is racist towards Japanese, impling that the country as a whole is racist towards Japan needs proof, not the other way around....

Again, I didn't say every person in a country is racist against Japanese people. My proof? My proof, which I have already offered, is in reality. The fact that Australians are so venomous towards the Japanese whalers yet almost completely quiet to other whaling countries. The fact that many people, Chinese or non-Chinese can offer anecdotal evidence about meeting an anti-Japanese Chinese person in real life. master-ling's post above is an example.

There will always be racist people in the world , no one is deniing that, but why single out only those countries?

Because this thread is about anti-Japanese sentiment and the countries who are most vocal about their anti-Japanese sentiment. I am singling out those countries because, shock horror, they are the most vocal! It's simple logic.

Putting the word "analysis" in the topic is akin to putting the word "healthy" on a McDonald's menu.

That doesn't change the fact that McDonalds's is VERY tasty and popular!

There are vets from the Pacific war theater that will hate all Japanese to the day they die, but they vast majority of those are now gone.

Really? I thought it was usually the old folks who let the past be past, but their sons and grandsons continue the battle into this generation. For example, even though the Serbian-Croatian War ended a long time ago and the old folks are trying to move on, it is their sons and daughters, their grandsons and granddaughters who continue the battle, often rioting at soccer matches.

If as you say, the WW2 will "hate all Japanese to the day they die", by dying away, at least this prevents the WW2 veterans from further brainwashing their irrational hatred onto the young ones and maybe we can get some progress happening.

With the popularity of anime and cars, the average U.S. citizen today, if anything, probably views it as a country of tremendous techological development living by a stricter code of "East Asian" morality. So there is always the potential for a positive upswing, but as for now I would say most Americans are nothing more than solidly neutral towards Japan and the Japanese people.

Yes, the export of popular Japanese culture has certainly contributed favorably to views about Japan. Not just cars and anime, but manga, Japanese girls, cell phones, dolls and figurines, video games, J-Pop, the list goes on.

My point is with all these cool things, Japan is too important to bomb again.

Long live Japan.

 

[Emoni]

Originally Posted by FrustratedDave View Post

What do you hope to acheive from it?

A good debate.

I've yet to see a "good debate" based around stereotypical generalities. Despite you claiming that you are just "expressing your views" (and no this forum isn't an emotional outlet for your views like you seem to think) Like Dave, I still don't see the point of this thread or what point you are trying to make. ALL debates have at least a point that one side is trying to make, and you seem to not even have that!

But hey, if you want to consider this a "debate" go right ahead; however, I would advise against labeling it as such since FrustratedDave is pretty much ripping you limb from limb.

 

[InvisibleSkyMagician]

FrustratedDave is pretty much ripping you limb from limb.

That's a bit of an overstatement, surely.

 

[Emoni]

That's a bit of an overstatement, surely.

Considering all you did was respond to that sentence, and none of what you actually pseudo-topic you've created, it is by no means an overstatement.

Again, what is your point? What are you trying to state in this thread? Can you at least explain that?

 

[Elizabeth]

Really? I thought it was usually the old folks who let the past be past, but their sons and grandsons continue the battle into this generation. For example, even though the Serbian-Croatian War ended a long time ago and the old folks are trying to move on, it is their sons and daughters, their grandsons and granddaughters who continue the battle, often rioting at soccer matches.

You don't understand the difference between the Balkans and American culture ? That pretty much says it all right there.

If as you say, the WW2 will "hate all Japanese to the day they die", by dying away, at least this prevents the WW2 veterans from further brainwashing their irrational hatred onto the young ones and maybe we can get some progress happening.

When were subsequent generations ever brainwashed ? Most of those vets, especially those who actually experienced combat, didn't like to talk about their wartime experiences in World War II and rarely ever have done so with other civilians, even their own wives and children. Before hostilities officially ended in 1945, the US was already shifting attention to the shape of the post war world with the Soviets and away from Asia and Europe. When the new overwhelmingly dominant national ideology of the Cold War reached fever pitch during the 1950's and early '60's, the bogeyman of Japan that had been all consuming for the past five years was left trailing in the dust.

In the 1980's we started scapegoating their economy by smashing up J-made goods because the US was financially insecure and experts warned of a worldwide takeover in top industrial technology that would be the biggest success story in all of economic history....But even as they were poised on the edge of that speculative bubble there was never a mindset of absolute hate...The country then plunges into a 12-year recession and no one is too worried about Japan taking over the world today.

Yes, the export of popular Japanese culture has certainly contributed favorably to views about Japan. Not just cars and anime, but manga, Japanese girls, cell phones, dolls and figurines, video games, J-Pop, the list goes on.
My point is with all these cool things, Japan is too important to bomb again.
Long live Japan.

Ahhh, finally, so this the point of your post ? And I'm almost afraid to ask....if not Japan, now what countries do deserve to be bombed for cutting off of so-called "important" exports ??

 

[MTR]

LOL! Why do you jump all over him?
This thread is just like most other threads at Jref, such as "Japanese opinions of other races". It's about the "general tendencies" of the population. We all know that not all Japanese/non-Japanese share the same view, but there's also an aggregate of individual attitudes or beliefs held by a large portion of that society.

 

[InvisibleSkyMagician]

That is correct, I am talking about the general tendency.
Nowhere in my thread did I say ALL people think this and ALL people think that.
In my opinion, a person would be fooling themselves if they believed that there was NOT a general tendency for the average Chinese mainlander to have negative views about Japan (either past or present).
Compare Chinas general tendency with say, Taiwans and there might be a potentialy big difference.
Sure, you can offer anecdotal evidence and say My boyfriend is Chinese and he likes Japan so you are wrong! Thats great, you found one Chinese person who likes Japan.
My point however is that for every 1 Pro-Japan Mainland Chinese person, there are 10* anti-Japan Chinese people to go with it.
*Made up statistic but you get my point.
And that is what this thread is about.

 

[FrustratedDave]

You started the thread "In my experience, Japan-bashing comes from 4 main sources which I will detail:",
Show us this extensive experience you have had with these countries and people you say are racially charged?
I don't see anything more that someone who is regurgitating information that they have read on the net. So where is all this experience comming from?
This thread is just trouble right from the start.

That is correct, I am talking about the general tendency.
Nowhere in my thread did I say ALL people think this and ALL people think that.
In my opinion, a person would be fooling themselves if they believed that there was NOT a general tendency for the average Chinese mainlander to have negative views about Japan (either past or present).
Compare Chinas general tendency with say, Taiwans and there might be a potentialy big difference.
Sure, you can offer anecdotal evidence and say My boyfriend is Chinese and he likes Japan so you are wrong! Thats great, you found one Chinese person who likes Japan.
My point however is that for every 1 Pro-Japan Mainland Chinese person, there are 10* anti-Japan Chinese people to go with it.
*Made up statistic but you get my point.
And that is what this thread is about.

You did say "Chinese People" and "China" , so yes you did sterotype an entire country as being racists towards Japan.
Your thread is pointless and if you wanted a good discussion maybe you should not jump right in and assume that certain demographics are racist...

BTW, my Grandfather was in WWII, so according to you my parrents, uncles, Aunty's, their children and their friends are generally holding some sort of contempt towards Japanese? Yep, keep up the good work....

 

[Elizabeth]

That is correct, I am talking about the general tendency.
Nowhere in my thread did I say ALL people think this and ALL people think that.
In my opinion, a person would be fooling themselves if they believed that there was NOT a general tendency for the average Chinese mainlander to have negative views about Japan (either past or present).
Compare Chinas general tendency with say, Taiwans and there might be a potentialy big difference.
Sure, you can offer anecdotal evidence and say My boyfriend is Chinese and he likes Japan so you are wrong! Thats great, you found one Chinese person who likes Japan.
My point however is that for every 1 Pro-Japan Mainland Chinese person, there are 10* anti-Japan Chinese people to go with it.
*Made up statistic but you get my point.
And that is what this thread is about.

"Might potentially" being the operative words in the absence of ANY supportive evidence. And, no, pointing to master-ling's post yourself as non-anecdotal doesn't count !

 

[Emoni]

Moreover, "general tendency" is fine if you can actually back up the evidence for it being the case a majority of the time. The problem is you based this thread completely on "your opinion" to create these tendency and then propagate them further as if they were truth, then you dance around with words and you arrive back at square one, but having already left a path of destruction all across the Candy Land game board due to your behavior.

I see where you likely intended this thread to go, but you didn't think it through and jumped carelessly in many directions with your golden opinion as your candlelight.

I hope you continue posting on JREF, because I think you DO have some vague knowledge and experience about what you are attempting to talk about and can bring something to this forum's table; however, next time you post I hope you seriously reconsider the way you go about how you present it. You're taking potentially interesting topics, and instead of shooting yourself in the foot, your blasting your leg off with a shotgun from the get-go.

 

[gaijinalways]

Hmm where to start. Several posters have pointed to some holes in your 'arguement', but let's look carefully at a few others, yes?

China: Self-explanatory really. Until very recently, China was a very stagnant economy and even more stagnant society (in terms of civil and human rights).

The economy has changed, the issue of rights has not greatly improved.

With one exception.

But there IS one thing that unites Chinese people (mainly mainlanders and mainlanders living in foreign countries): Their hatred of Japan in the past, Japan in the present and likely, Japan in the future. Just slip in the word Japan to any conversation and Chinese people everywhere will climb over themselves to remind you of Japan's WW2 atrocities in China and how they should grovel, apologize and plead for forgiveness.

I would somewhat agree with this, based on my limited experiences of living in HK before the handover, and living in Taiwan. The contrast is quite great.

As we all know, Japan did a few things too to America, the Pearl Harbor attacks being the most well known one.

While the veterans more or less, have accepted the past and look to the future where America and Japan have good diplomatic relations, other people are continuing the hate on Japan. These people still view Japan as the violent and barbaric baby-stabbing imperialist nation instead of the mainly moderate society that it is today.

Which is quite ironic seeing that it is now America who have transformed into the imperialist that they were trying to fight back in WW2.

Why they continue the fight against Japan is beyond me right now, but in the current times, it is clear which of the two nations is the bigger terrorist (I'm ignoring the Hiroshima/Nagasaki and the subsequent fire-bombings for now, a direct and calculated attack on innocent Japanese civilians instead of doing the "right" thing and bombing a military target).

I guess it would depend on which veterans you spoke to. I know some are still very bitter about the Japanese treatment of POWs.

As to the a-bombing themselves, those were military targets. Of course nowadays, whether someone should be a-bombed or not is not considered a relevent question. At the time it was done, it was different.

Imperilist aims, uh, Japan and America, a 'little' bit different. Perhaps you have been talking to some of the resident right wing Japanese?

What I would like to talk about is how they communicate their hatred against Japan without appearing xenophobic or the like. They do this via the whaling issue.

Truth be told, nobody really cares that much about the whales. It's just another example of fake sympathy so common in the media and in society. So what does this have to do with Japan? Simple: The anti-whaling crowd are criticizing and hating on Japan, using the whaling issue as the proxy.

Never mind the fact that Japan is whaling LEGALLY, otherwise the nation would have been completely sued by now. But hey, why let facts get in the way of Japan-bashing?

And everyone loves baby seals being clubbed and why do some people wearing fur get spray painted; oh it must be because they don't like Japanese.

And yes, the Japanese are sometimes accused of hunting whales illegally sometimes, but generally, yes they have permits to hunt whales for 'research':?!

The Anti-anime (and other Japanese things) Crowd

This was your worst arguement yet, so perhaps I don't need to dissect it, but I'll take a shot. Some aspects of Japanese culture have become more widely known (sushi) but some have not. Even Japanese animation lovers are still a relatively small group worldwide. Probably what some people hate more is being obsessed with something, but where you should draw the line is difficult to say. I think people who obsess about a nation based on their products may be one area to start with.

 

[MTR]

See? How this "individual" view above is un-unique?
I'm not arguing for or against the particular view itself, but you hear about it over and over again from "Americans", and it gets old. I'm sure some researchers have studied the opinion distributions on this issue (i.e. A-bomb).

 

[gaijinalways]

MTR posted

See? How this "individual" view above is un-unique?
I'm not arguing for or against the particular view itself, but you hear about it over and over again from "Americans", and it gets old. I'm sure some researchers have studied the opinion distributions on this issue (i.e. A-bomb).

I'm not sure if you're addressing the OP's comments on the a-bombings or my own. Factories producing military weapons/parts etc. would be military targets; to think otherwise is odd or very unrealistic.

You may have noticed I didn't talk about the fire bombings of Tokyo as I agree with the OP on that, totally unnecessary. Though to be honest, if the Japanese could have reached the US mainland in force or if they had the a-bomb technology in WWII, I have never heard anyone opine that they would have hestitated to do either (a-bomb or firebomb cities).

The Japanese had originally thought that by detering the Americans from attacking them quicker (by destroying their fleet in Hawaii), they wouldn't have to worry about them while they created their greater 'economic sphere'. I remember reading about the man in overall charge of the operation, Admiral Yamamoto, who disagreed with his government and thought it was a mistake to bother with America at all, rather that Japan might simply be awaking a sleeping giant. Did that ever turn out to be an accurate prediction.

 

[Saradus]

Someone asked about the UK. We don't have a very large Japanese community in the UK and the majority of them I believe are in London. Because of this, the British tend not to really have much of an opinion on Japan and so you don't really hear much Japan-bashing here.

Sometimes I get a bit of criticism for liking anime but thats more to do with the fact that they're never really experienced Japanese culture and automatically assume that animated implies either children's tv or toon porn (another stereotype!). Other than that, no Japan-bashing here that I know of