Two 'wa' subjects in one sentence?

The7thSamurai

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I had my first Japanese lesson today and my Japanese sensei confused me a bit with the use of the 'wa' particle. For sentence 'there is an apple' she told us to say 'soko ni wa ringo wa arimasu'. I questioned why there were two 'wa's but she simply said that just what it should be. I thought that it would have been 'soko ni ringo wa arimasu' or 'ringo wa soko ni arimasu'.

Is someone able to give me an explanation of why we were told to put two 'wa's in the sentence?
 
Err, is your teacher Japanese?
In any case don't worry, you can be forever trapped in the insanity that is basic Japanese, but it's best to have fun, build vocab, learn kanji, etc.
also recommend you do a web search on "japanese particles" there are loads of good resources out there. oh, and get a book on basic grammar."a dictionary of basic japanese grammar"

soko ni ringo ga arimasu would be a basic sentence.
'soko ni wa ringo wa(ga) arimasu'
this is a bit weird for a first japanese lesson.
"niwa" adds emphasis showing the location is what's important.
There's apples there, (but none over there)

Is your teacher using a real text book for your lessons?

Sarumo
 
People also use
私にはぎゅどんを下さい。
watashi/watakushi niwa gyudon wo kudasai.
"I'll have gyudon please."
When ordering food or drinks. I use this all the time at my favorite sushi restaraunt.

not sure why niwa is more appropriate when ordering food but that's what my book has and at this place they help me better my japanese by talking to me in japanese. Very cool people.

P.S. I think we got off topic. Alot of sentences will have more than one particle. Don't let it bother you as you will awe struck until you just naturally get the hang of it.

ganbatte 👍
 
this is a bit weird for a first japanese lesson.

Maybe she didn't want to get into the whole "ga" thing on the first lesson? Just a guess.
 
Thanks for your replies.

She's Japanese and the lessons are coming straight out of a Japanese textbook. This is not the first confusing thing to come out of this text book. As I mentioned in a post previously it teaches the words for 'food' and 'drink' to be taberumono and nomumono (where my self teaching taught me tabemono and nomimono). Disappointing because now I have to cross reference everything with other materials.

And I don't think it has anything to do with the difference between 'wa' and 'ga' as she was differenciating between these with other examples.

Anyway, it was only the first lesson, we'll see what happens on Thursday :)
 
taberumono and nomumono should be alright too.

They're just the word mono with the verbs taberu and nomu used as adjectives.
But I think that nomimono and tabemono are a better option.
 
Right, the difference is that the former are phrases and the latter are words.
 
I think taberumono is used a lot in contexts like "何か食べるものない?" Isn't there something to eat ? Of course there's also 食べる者, or a person who eats. :p
 
That sounds like an odd textbook. Outdated perhaps? There is no need to introduce niwa on the first day or taberumono for that matter.

Perhaps you can convince her to change books.
 
Bucko said:
the use of the 'wa' particle...for...'there is an apple' she told us to say 'soko ni wa ringo wa arimasu'...Is someone able to give me an explanation of why we were told to put two 'wa's in the sentence?
Using the grammar books I have, this is the best sense I can make of it. The particle -wa can indicate one of three things; 1) subject, 2) referent object, and 3) emphasis (in place of -ga and -o)

The non-emphatic place marker for soko is -ni.
The non-emphatic general subject maker for ringo with the verb of existence aru- is -ga.

Hence the standard way to say "There is an apple" is;

"soko ni ringo ga arimasu."

As Suomo pointed out, the place marker -ni with the referent indicator -wa will produce the compound particle -niwa to mean "only there" or "as for that place, and nowhere else." This will result in "As for that place, there is an apple";

"soko ni wa ringo ga arimasu."

The emphatic particular subject marker for ringo with the verb of existence aru- is -wa, giving "ringo wa" to mean "only apple(s), but nothing else" or "as for apples, for sure, but as for others, I can't say for sure."

The two distinctions are productive rules in Japanese that convey the speaker's sense of certainty and discrimination. Hence your instructors sample sentence should have the sense of "There is surely an apple(s); but I can't say anything else."

"ringo wa arimasu"

Since the use of -wa as a referent indicator and subject marker can be confusing when used twice in a sentence. (why two emphases ? why two subjects ?) But universal logic says that could not be the case. That is why grammar books say "When the referent indicator -wa is used, the (following) subject is always indicated by -ga", and that "the combination 'noun+wa' usually precedes the subject to define the topic or referent of the speech at first."

If this rule is an accurate description of standard Japanese, then there are only two possibilities that could have caused your instructor's sentence.

1) She is excercising a higher degree of discrimination in her idiosyncratic language, disregarding the avoidance of double -wa rule.

2) The grammar rule only says so to indicate the relative frequency, meaning the unique combination is not impossible, but occurrs only rarely for extreme distinction.

"soko ni wa ringo wa arimasu."
"As for that place (can't say for other places), there is surely an apple(s); (can't say for sure there is anything else)."

Although it doesn't have direct bearing on Japanese, it is interesting to note that Mandarin, Manchu, and Korean share this strange phenomenon of one sentence apparently having two subjects. The first is actually the topic, the second the subject of the predicate clause. This could be one example of language convergence in NE Asia.
 
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"soko ni wa ringo wa arimasu."
"As for that place (can't say for other places), there is surely an apple(s); (can't say for sure there is anything else)."
My understanding from talking to two or three native speakers on this is the topic indicator 'wa' emphasizes more the lack of other related items (besides apples) and gives off the nuance that there is for sure an apple and only an apple, but most likely not other additional fruit. 'Ringo ga aru' is less clear to me, but my instinct would be the stress is on the presence of an apple rather than the absence of anything else. :? It would naturally follow the question, "Do you have an apple?/Are there any apples?" Ringo ga arimasuka? Yes, in fact if that is all you want, there is an apple right over there....

It could be seen as somewhat at odds with other 'wa'/'ga' divides where 'wa' often indicates greater openness to other possibilities and 'ga' focuses in on a more limited picture or range of options....but not necessarily. 😌
 
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