Golgo_13
先輩
- 27 Nov 2003
- 2,001
- 37
To any Europeans who are familiar with Grander System
- Thread starter Golgo_13
- Start date
Hi,
to tell the truth: I've never heard before of Grander or his technologies. But I came in contact with several thoughts (or technologies - as you will) that seem to be similar - and in many cases were related to some unprovable statements, that were based on "energetic fields", "magnetic fields" of undefined behavior, moon phases, black cats, energetic rays from stones and so on.
I do NOT believe, that all I should or can or will believe must be provable - and I believe, that there are many things on our earth that are "unbelievable" in some way - yet having influences on (human) life (for example the moon....).
But skepticism is "raising its head" immediately, if I get informations like I found them on Grander's homepage.......
The key to my skepticism is the following state (to be found here: http://www.grander-technologie.com/en/grander-effekt/index.php):
"The precise method by which he produces "information water" is a trade secret."
Ok - special technology informations aren't open to the world, because these informations are containing the ability to make lots of money. On the other hand this sentence may show, that there aren't any explanations for the effect of Granders technologie - perhaps because there are no valid explanations at all.....
I really don't know what this all means. On one hand I can imagine that there are effects on the water. But on the other hand I am really confused reading all the stuff at that website.
The best way to follow my thoughts is to read "About Johann Grander >> Table talk" first. Grander tells us his thoughts - why earth is as bad as it is todays and so on.... And his main interest seems to be leading all of us to a better world.....
This is nice so far. But how do his thoughts go hand in hand with the fact, that Ganders devices are used to get more and better results in a huge copper mine in Chile????
Simply spoken: Getting more money out of that mine?
One apllication is use of Granders devices for getting better extraction results in the copper extraction process - the other is using his ECO-cat.
I assume that one of the huge dump trucks with mounted Grander-device should save around 5% of diesel. Assuming also that the 2700-HP-Engine sucks 3000 litres per day means a saving of approx. 150 ltr per day. Also assuming that the price of diesel there is only 10% as it is here in europe the save 15 Euro per day and truck. Having 20 trucks that big running at the mine makes an avarage saving of 300 Euro per day or approx. 6000 Euro per month. Set against the average diesel consumption of these big haulers of approx. 120.000 Euro per month this is not a really big thing, isn't it?
Nice numbers..... And this is simply achieved by mounting a Grander-device over a fuel pipe - as it is described in the section of Grander's website "USER EXPERIENCES >> Chinese National Railway (China)":
"Grander's Eco-Cat, was fitted over the fuel pipe in locomotives."
Notice: The Eco-Cat is mounted "over the fuel pipe"!!!! As far as I know the fuel pipe in no way does transport WATER - it transports diesel. How the "water revitalisation" does work on fuel stays a miracle so far... No explanation here about how this should work.....
You may say, that there are significant savings on fuel at Chinese Railways. But I don't agree. A saving of 1% to 3 % can simply be reached by proper driving of the machines. Let the train roll more often than before, do not brake as often as before and using some knowledge of the terrain you're chasing your train through will do most of the trick.
And I'm shure that the chinese engineers will have done so. Having installed an expensive device in their locomotive must have driven them to a more carefully operation of their engines....
)
Grander's Website did not mention chinese steam locomotives like the Qian Jing (QJ) or the SY and using the devices on them - this would have been more logical to me, since the last SY was build in 1999 - and there are many steamers working in China till today. Since consumption (and also the quality) of water is the usual range limitation of a steamer the usage of Granders devices on them would have made sense.
But mounted on a fuel pipe?????
One mor point:
I did not find anything that tells about wether Grander's technology is patented or not.
Now: If this technology is as good as it is told at the website - why don't we find the devices implemented in our automobiles, locomotives, houses and and and...... ????
And if Granders technology is NOT patented AND is as good as it is stated:
Why did nobody go through the re-engeneering process, cut some of this devices apart and build a copy of these devices?
Finish:
My opinion should be clear now: I would not give a single cent for these devices. Too many is unclear - hanging around between "heaven and earth", as my grandma would say.... ;-)
My state is only based upon my personal point of view and I can't deliver any facts. But this also applies to Granders website ;-)
Regards, Michael
PS: Please excuse my bad english - is is in no way as far as good I would like it to be..... :-(
to tell the truth: I've never heard before of Grander or his technologies. But I came in contact with several thoughts (or technologies - as you will) that seem to be similar - and in many cases were related to some unprovable statements, that were based on "energetic fields", "magnetic fields" of undefined behavior, moon phases, black cats, energetic rays from stones and so on.
I do NOT believe, that all I should or can or will believe must be provable - and I believe, that there are many things on our earth that are "unbelievable" in some way - yet having influences on (human) life (for example the moon....).
But skepticism is "raising its head" immediately, if I get informations like I found them on Grander's homepage.......
The key to my skepticism is the following state (to be found here: http://www.grander-technologie.com/en/grander-effekt/index.php):
"The precise method by which he produces "information water" is a trade secret."
Ok - special technology informations aren't open to the world, because these informations are containing the ability to make lots of money. On the other hand this sentence may show, that there aren't any explanations for the effect of Granders technologie - perhaps because there are no valid explanations at all.....
I really don't know what this all means. On one hand I can imagine that there are effects on the water. But on the other hand I am really confused reading all the stuff at that website.
The best way to follow my thoughts is to read "About Johann Grander >> Table talk" first. Grander tells us his thoughts - why earth is as bad as it is todays and so on.... And his main interest seems to be leading all of us to a better world.....
This is nice so far. But how do his thoughts go hand in hand with the fact, that Ganders devices are used to get more and better results in a huge copper mine in Chile????
Simply spoken: Getting more money out of that mine?
One apllication is use of Granders devices for getting better extraction results in the copper extraction process - the other is using his ECO-cat.
I assume that one of the huge dump trucks with mounted Grander-device should save around 5% of diesel. Assuming also that the 2700-HP-Engine sucks 3000 litres per day means a saving of approx. 150 ltr per day. Also assuming that the price of diesel there is only 10% as it is here in europe the save 15 Euro per day and truck. Having 20 trucks that big running at the mine makes an avarage saving of 300 Euro per day or approx. 6000 Euro per month. Set against the average diesel consumption of these big haulers of approx. 120.000 Euro per month this is not a really big thing, isn't it?
Nice numbers..... And this is simply achieved by mounting a Grander-device over a fuel pipe - as it is described in the section of Grander's website "USER EXPERIENCES >> Chinese National Railway (China)":
"Grander's Eco-Cat, was fitted over the fuel pipe in locomotives."
Notice: The Eco-Cat is mounted "over the fuel pipe"!!!! As far as I know the fuel pipe in no way does transport WATER - it transports diesel. How the "water revitalisation" does work on fuel stays a miracle so far... No explanation here about how this should work.....
You may say, that there are significant savings on fuel at Chinese Railways. But I don't agree. A saving of 1% to 3 % can simply be reached by proper driving of the machines. Let the train roll more often than before, do not brake as often as before and using some knowledge of the terrain you're chasing your train through will do most of the trick.
And I'm shure that the chinese engineers will have done so. Having installed an expensive device in their locomotive must have driven them to a more carefully operation of their engines....
)Grander's Website did not mention chinese steam locomotives like the Qian Jing (QJ) or the SY and using the devices on them - this would have been more logical to me, since the last SY was build in 1999 - and there are many steamers working in China till today. Since consumption (and also the quality) of water is the usual range limitation of a steamer the usage of Granders devices on them would have made sense.
But mounted on a fuel pipe?????
One mor point:
I did not find anything that tells about wether Grander's technology is patented or not.
Now: If this technology is as good as it is told at the website - why don't we find the devices implemented in our automobiles, locomotives, houses and and and...... ????
And if Granders technology is NOT patented AND is as good as it is stated:
Why did nobody go through the re-engeneering process, cut some of this devices apart and build a copy of these devices?
Finish:
My opinion should be clear now: I would not give a single cent for these devices. Too many is unclear - hanging around between "heaven and earth", as my grandma would say.... ;-)
My state is only based upon my personal point of view and I can't deliver any facts. But this also applies to Granders website ;-)
Regards, Michael
PS: Please excuse my bad english - is is in no way as far as good I would like it to be..... :-(
