The jref curse;

[Sensuikan San]

-5 hit modifier?! Heh, how about -25? Another -50 for using the crying emoticon, another -15 for using the bawling emoticon, and another -10 for dicussing the rep system in the first place! Wow, that's -100! GAME OVER!!! You suck!!!!!

I'm just playing around with you. ;-)

Doc

Sorry Doc !

You obviously haven't read the small print ... !

5 "Evils" followed by 1 "Wink" followed by a "Wave" .... is not acceptable.

One of the few, secret forbidden conventions! Most of us were aware of this ... but ...

....You're banned!

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停? ;-) :wavey:

 

[MajideSaiaku]

-5 hit modifier?! Heh, how about -25? Another -50 for using the crying emoticon, another -15 for using the bawling emoticon, and another -10 for dicussing the rep system in the first place! Wow, that's -100! GAME OVER!!! You suck!!!!!

I'm just playing around with you.

Doc

But im a level 62 enforcer, with a stygen desolator and medium tank armour. ☝

-100 is like a mozzy bite to me.

*-530 hit modifier for doc from nuri via his pocki-desolator morning star mace, and heals the -100 using a first aid kit "strawberry pocki goodness sent to him from japan by his ladeh" and heals up*

 

[Mycernius]

Sounds like people are actually rooting for him to gain 4 red balls (no pun intended, behave yourselves). How can someone unpopular become popular by being unpopular? *Head explodes*

 

[Kinsao]

Sounds like people are actually rooting for him to gain 4 red balls (no pun intended, behave yourselves). How can someone unpopular become popular by being unpopular? *Head explodes*

It's our insecurity. We just need to know there is someone more unpopular than ourselves.

 

[Doc]

Insecurity my ***! I just want to see him just let it go when he starts ranting because it's getting on my nerves.

Doc

 

[Sensuikan San]

Sounds like people are actually rooting for him to gain 4 red balls (no pun intended, behave yourselves). How can someone unpopular become popular by being unpopular? *Head explodes*

Good heavens, Mike! I am surprised at you!

Obviously you have never been a fan of professional wrestling!

The only people worth watching are the "masked villains" ..... like Martha Stewart, Margaret Thatcher, Bill Gates on a bad day .... y'know ...?

I used to love standing at the back of the hall and booing my favorite "bete noir" ...!

Wonderful stuff! :smash:

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?

 

[Maciamo]

I have banned McTojo as some of his posts were really too disrespectful and offensive.

 

[Jack]

woah!! you banned him? i dont think he was offensive just kinda rude and arrogant with his views.

 

[Kinsao]

When I read his posts, I was surprised he was not banned earlier... I came to the conclusion that because he wrapped up what he was saying in fancy words, he was tolerated for longer than a grammatically-challenged semi-illiterate spammer/flamer would have been. It was clear to me that he was a head case...

Plus, of course, the entertainment factor...

 

[Mycernius]

Good heavens, Mike! I am surprised at you!

Obviously you have never been a fan of professional wrestling!

The only people worth watching are the "masked villains" ..... like Martha Stewart, Margaret Thatcher, Bill Gates on a bad day .... y'know ...?

I used to love standing at the back of the hall and booing my favorite "bete noir" ...!

Wonderful stuff! :smash:

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?彈/QUOTE]
Did you used to watch the wrestling on Saturday Afternoons on ITV when you were still here? Giant Haystacks, Big daddy, Kendo Nagasaki. Proper wrestlers, being egged on by old grannies in the front row.

 

[Sensuikan San]

Did you used to watch the wrestling on Saturday Afternoons on ITV when you were still here? Giant Haystacks, Big daddy, Kendo Nagasaki. Proper wrestlers, being egged on by old grannies in the front row.

Most certainly!

Also used to creep down to the local "Drill Hall" (waaaay back ...) and see such 1960's heroes as Jacky Pallo, Mick McManus, Les Kellett, Billy Two Rivers, Tibor Szacasc ... yes ... and Nagasaki ...et al ...... My Gawd! I was a fan! :nuts:

And yes ... there were umbrella wielding grannies on the front row ... always! (Usually the mother of the promoter - dunno what they were paid!)

Blue collar entertainment at its best! Especially when the crowd got carried away and chairs started flying around!

Great stuff! (It was usually followed by a Chinese meal and a coupla beers! - those were the days!)

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?

 

[Silverpoint]

Sitting in my late grandparents' house watching Big Daddy go toe-to-toe (or belly to belly) with Haystacks on a little black-and-white TV are some of my fondest memories.

 

[Sensuikan San]

We're all now totally off-topic! But what the heck!

Let's keep this one rolling dudes!

It's starting to be more fun!

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?

 

[Jack]

i still watch the wwe stuff on sky sports, not as good as the olden days though, is it?

 

[Kinsao]

I remember that my dad's mum used to love the wrestling, she was always watching it when I went round to her house. Go granny!

 

[lastmagi]

When I read his posts, I was surprised he was not banned earlier... I came to the conclusion that because he wrapped up what he was saying in fancy words, he was tolerated for longer than a grammatically-challenged semi-illiterate spammer/flamer would have been. It was clear to me that he was a head case...

Precisely!

I agree with Maciamo and Kinsao that he was irritating and even offensive to a degree, not because of his behavior per se, but because of the contempt he felt for the non-Japanese, no matter how he tried to "reason" (I think there was one part where he rejected the use of logic in general, but I'm not sure). I think there is a difference between the offensiveness of a 13 yo child who makes inane curses at you and the offensiveness of an adult who tries to propogandize his views at the disrespect of others, but they both remain offensive. I remember a BBC article in which the president of Harvard or some high-ranking uni was criticized because he made some comment about women not being able to do science or something. It was both his opinion, and he also used reason, I think, but he still apparently offended lots of people.

That is why I am at a fundamental disagreeance with RockLee:

I don't understand what you guys have against him, everyone is entitled on an opinion...as long as he/she doesn't start irritating people You should know better when to take someone serious or not.I would expect this kind of behavior from a 12 yo !

[....]

If you don't like what he posts, DON'T go visit his thread.If I had to bad rep anyone who isn't thinking the same way I am or posts something I don't agree with, you all would have red dot's 'till it came out of your friggin ears !! I think it's childish to bad rep someone because he talks nonsense from time to time, and just to follow the rest who bad reps him."Oh look, he has bad rep, that must mean we have to bad rep him some more so he'll be out of here in no time" Oh, and I have read almost every post he ever made on this forum, he has some valid points and also non-valid ones, but that doesn't make him a bad person in my eyes ! It seems people tend to abuse the rep system more than once lately

Because I did find his views offensive, and thus feel compelled to respond. I was not affected personally, but his disregard for human life has, as Mike cash pointed out, crossed the line of good taste:

People's Court accuses Tony McTojo Karakakawa

Hence I find it subhuman for Tony McTojo Karakakawa to ridicule the victimised grannies of WWII and making fun of them in public. Do you not have a grandmother McTojo ? How can you not sympathise a rape victim and where do you find the savage daring to side with the rapists by policy ?

But, back to the off-topicness!

Ah, I remember when pro wrestling was dominated by Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Brett Hart, Ted Dibiasi, Yokozuna, etc, and Golddust was just a new character. I can't be THAT old can I? ....... ☝ I wonder what's going on with it now?

 

[Brooker]

What's with all the "damn the man of jref" stuff lately?? If someone is getting that much negative rep, they must be doing some pretty bad stuff, and it's a pretty good indication that the members here really don't want that person around anymore.

What you need to understand is, usually someone gets banned after they post something REALLY BAD. But we remove that bad post, so you might never see it. All you see are the slightly less offensive posts leading up to the REALLY BAD ones. Some of the things people have posted to get themselves banned have been incredibly offensive, but you probably never saw it because something that bad would be removed immediately.

 

[lastmagi]

What's with all the "damn the man of jref" stuff lately?? If someone is getting that much negative rep, they must be doing some pretty bad stuff, and it's a pretty good indication that the members here really don't want that person around anymore.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's not a bandwagon thing. I tend to see reputation as a visible feedback mechanism about your, well, reputation (or a rough virtual simulation of it, at least). And if people get, oh, three red balls, that probably means something.

What you need to understand is, usually someone gets banned after they post something REALLY BAD. But we remove that bad post, so you might never see it. All you see are the slightly less offensive posts leading up to the REALLY BAD ones. Some of the things people have posted to get themselves banned have been incredibly offensive, but you probably never saw it because something that bad would be removed immediately.

And that is why I love the moderators here. In other forums moderators are non-existent or braindead or both. Thank you all for taking care of JRef!

 

[RockLee]

The thing is, people in here start bad repping people before they even say anything really offence.Some people here just can't take a joke and should lighten up a bit. I would like to see some of that 'offensive stuff' he posted to give a good judgement if he really deserved a ban.Anyways, did any of you guys even bother to tell him to cut back on saying offensive things ? And what the hell is up with you people taking on Maciamo ? You want him to give up the forum because you don't like what he writes and find it offensive ? Give me break...If this childish BS keeps going on you'll find JRef without 1 Belgian member less !! I came here to discuss and talk about Japan and other interesting things, not see a bunch of childish remarks and kids bad repping every day because they don't like other people's opinions. And stop making stupid threads like this if you don't know anything decent to post Provoking should get you a ban too !

 

[lastmagi]

I would like to see some of that 'offensive stuff' he posted to give a good judgement if he really deserved a ban.

I take it by that statement that you don't believe that he has made some offensive remarks? You also seem to imply that you have better, clearer judgement than others?

Whatever the case, even the things that was not deleted by moderators was offensive because of their lack of respect for basic human decency. McTojo placed absolutely nothing but contempt for victims of the war atrocities. He lacked basic sensitivities to human demises such as mass rape. Most of his posts were framed around that premise. What someone says does not have to have direct insults in order to be considered insulting. That more than a handful of people took offence enough to give him bad reps should be clear.

Lastly, even if he wasn't offensive, he was still inciteful and polarizing.

Anyways, did any of you guys even bother to tell him to cut back on saying offensive things ?

I think it should have been obvious that we weren't exactly thrilled about his ideas. Like I said in a previous post, reps also provide feedback.

Example:

I think the history of China and Japan should be whitewashed to a point, and I'm sure I'll "catch flame" for this but the truth needs to be told. In November of 2004 Iris Chang took her own life for reasons that weren't really made clear. Some could speculate that she suffered from a nervous breakdown; others may say she suffered from depression; whatever it was I was a happy to know that she was no longer around to promote her biase opinions about Nanking ! In short I was glad that another enemy of Japan did the responsible thing...like so many Japanese soldiers who took their own lives out of guilt for the war.

"enemy of Japan" "did the responsible thing" while it didn't offend me personally and directly, certainly does reek of insensitivity and disrespect, and thus offensive indirectly. Also, check out the thread I linked to before.

By the way, you mentioned in another post that you gave him good rep points when he was in the -2 red ball zone. Unless you don't want to discuss it, which I'll be perfectly fine with, would you care to explain why? The reason I ask is because I want to clarify that you didn't give him good rep points BECAUSE he was in the -2 red ball zone (which would also be abusing the rep system, but in a different way than you suggested), so I will give you the benefit of a doubt here in case you can explain yourself. Also, if you did find some of his points valid, I do not recall seeing you figuring prominently in any of the discussions with him, so this could be a good chance to defend him. Again, there's no pressure to explain, and a simple 'no' would be ok if you don't want to.

And what the hell is up with you people taking on Maciamo ? You want him to give up the forum because you don't like what he writes and find it offensive ? Give me break...If this childish BS keeps going on you'll find JRef without 1 Belgian member less !! I came here to discuss and talk about Japan and other interesting things, not see a bunch of childish remarks and kids bad repping every day because they don't like other people's opinions.

I think people have been dissatisfied with the way Maciamo freely provides his experience to others, which may make them feel inferior. I for my part don't really mind it as much as some of the other members' rudeness, because it is something to have that experience under your belt. I think I can feel his frustration sometimes when he's trying to speak to a newbie who feels like he knows everything.

Another part is that someone mentioned that admins can read PM messages, which was in fact blown out of proportion despite the fact that that statement was repeatedly cited as false by others. So there was some misunderstanding, and the content of that misunderstanding got an unfortunate focus.

And stop making stupid threads like this if you don't know anything decent to post

To be fair, this IS a thread under Chit Chat and Miscellaneous...

Provoking should get you a ban too !

You're right. Some quotes (if you don't want yourself quoted, lemme know).

Kokuso, I agree it is a very important matter to discuss. But it is blatantly obvious from the way McTojo has framed his arguments on this and other threads that he's just trying to stir things up and not have a reasoned debate.

McTojo - you said in the other thread you have nothing to apologize for. Until this point I thought you were - lets not say "troll" per say, but a provocateur...

You are absolutely right ! Sorry for being abnoxious ! Actually, I don't know anything about Haruki Murakami, just wanted to stir some debate.

McTojo, if you continue provocating and insulting people (especially respected members like Mandylion and Mikawa Ossan), you'll end up being banned (this is a warning, in case you hadn't noticed).

 

[Doc]

Dude, Rock chill out man. Have some Silver and chill.

Doc

 

[RockLee]

I take it by that statement that you don't believe that he has made some offensive remarks? You also seem to imply that you have better, clearer judgement than others?

I know he posted some offensive things, but I didn't see anything really offensive that would get him a ban. You're implying too much, and I recommend you stop doing that.

I think it should have been obvious that we weren't exactly thrilled about his ideas. Like I said in a previous post, reps also provide feedback.

Then I advise you to check your rep and notice a feedback !

By the way, you mentioned in another post that you gave him good rep points when he was in the -2 red ball zone. Unless you don't want to discuss it, which I'll be perfectly fine with, would you care to explain why? The reason I ask is because I want to clarify that you didn't give him good rep points BECAUSE he was in the -2 red ball zone (which would also be abusing the rep system, but in a different way than you suggested), so I will give you the benefit of a doubt here in case you can explain yourself. Also, if you did find some of his points valid, I do not recall seeing you figuring prominently in any of the discussions with him, so this could be a good chance to defend him. Again, there's no pressure to explain, and a simple 'no' would be ok if you don't want to.

Why I gave him good rep is none of your damn business, it's private for a reason you know ! But if you really want to know it, he said something I agree with (oh, isn't that the function of repping? )

I think people have been dissatisfied with the way Maciamo freely provides his experience to others, which may make them feel inferior. I for my part don't really mind it as much as some of the other members' rudeness, because it is something to have that experience under your belt. I think I can feel his frustration sometimes when he's trying to speak to a newbie who feels like he knows everything.

Still that doesn't mean you can badmouth an admin and can get away with it.Personal attacks are not tolerated.

To be fair, this IS a thread under Chit Chat and Miscellaneous...

Still, this thread is provoking.

 

[lastmagi]

I believe the level of this thread's discussion has dipped somewhat... I'm unsure why RockLee is starting to focus his anger at me, so if this continues into another angry argument thread, I'll have to ask Maciamo to lock this, because what is being discussed at present isn't really worth anyone's reading time.

I know he posted some offensive things, but I didn't see anything really offensive that would get him a ban.

That may be true. You might not have seen anything offensive in particular, but apparently there were many others, including myself, who saw something offensive, and we made every effort to reason and argue with him before he got banned. Must we justify once again our arguments? Are you the sole, standalone arbitrator of what is to be offensive or not? I respect the fact that you have confidence in your own sense of what is right and wrong, but one's senses alone is never 100% perfect. Perhaps our moral consciousnesses differ that you feel so strongly in support of him (in which case I wonder why you did not participate or reason your arguments as strongly as you could in the McTojo threads)?

You're implying too much, and I recommend you stop doing that.

Well, taking things at face value is not something I like to do, so... Anyway, there is no valid reason not to draw obvious implications from any statement, and you didn't really give a good point of argument with solid reasons for this particular quoted statement, so I'll leave it there.

Then I advise you to check your rep and notice a feedback !

OK. I think we all know where this discussion is headed. I don't really mind that you gave me a bad rep point, but the reason for it was rather immature (or maybe that's why I don't mind in the first place), and suggests your hypocrisy as far as the abuse of the rep system goes. I won't give you a bad rep, because the last thing I want is to sink to that level of heated mud-slinging. I have already responded to what you addressed in the rep message, but for the sake of privacy, you'll have to dig around to find it.

Why I gave him good rep is none of your damn business, it's private for a reason you know !

Which is exactly why I told you in more than one sentence that it's OK not to answer, and a simple no would have sufficed. I also added what I felt to be a valid reason why I asked (which was due to the manner in which you phrased your statement in question), but gave you the benefit of a doubt.

But if you really want to know it, he said something I agree with (oh, isn't that the function of repping? )

That may have been true (at least, in part). Then why did you not stand up for him more prominently before? The JREF forum is not just about the rep points, you realize, but the discussions. Perhaps those discussions could have used your contribution. Logic would suggest that the fact that you are so strongly defensive about him now + that you agreed with one of his points = you would have at least contributed something to McTojo's cause before, when he was really under fire (of reasoned debate, that is). That you didn't suggests to me that you had nothing to add and/or your justification was on shaky ground (not necessarily mutually exclusive).

Still that doesn't mean you can badmouth an admin and can get away with it.Personal attacks are not tolerated.

Yes, well, one shouldn't really talk bad things about anyone, not just admins, but I agree with that all the same.

Still, this thread is provoking.

How? I admit, I have a natural aversion to arguments that use "Still! X is [adjective]" because it doesn't really add any new points.

To whom is it provocative? McTojo was neither mentioned nor alluded to in the original post. All the OP was about was a rumored "curse" in JREF regarding the bad rep points. Eventually the discussion got around the McTojo, but that was because he had 3 bad rep points, and thus relevant to the discussion.

And finally, please review the examples I gave of what a provocative poster is, if you didn't before (or if you decided to ignore it). I thought that since you seemed so energized about provocative posters needing to be banned that you would at least have acknowledged those passages, but you didn't, which suggests, at best, denial of arguments that go against you, and at worst, hypocrisy that you would support someone who did the same things you accused the OP of doing.


I think that the amount of faith-based arguments in your post (not in the traditional sense, mind you; I mean stuff like: "But still!", "well I think it was okay", "You are ____" with no reasons/evidence given, etc) highlights the extent to which you can handle this discussion. You did nothing but finger-pointing, and your excited nature of your posts did not help either. Not only that, but as I've noted, since your justifications for your arguments are on shaky grounds, it lends one suspicion about hypocrisy and immaturity. For these reasons, I will be requesting Maciamo to lock this thread, with my apologies to the original poster, jack2.

Furthermore, I will be placing you on my ignore list for an as-yet undetermined length of time. I'm sure you won't mind, and I think it's for the better.

Good day.

edit: I realize this post may reek of pomposity. If anyone thinks I am saying something along the lines of "Well, I'M the one on the higher ground because I'M mature," don't worry. I know I probably have a poor EQ and I know I have a really bad IQ, but there are simply some behaviors that I just cannot stand. :sorry:

 

[Davey]

mmm guy's... maybe you should give your phone numbers to each other, and set up a date or something?

 

[Doc]

I don't think it would work out. ;-)

Doc