Ten years in Japan and refuses to speak Japanese

[Gaki]

Originally posted by alexi32
Yeah well I was at a Japanese rock gig last night in London with my sister, and too really annoy her I spoke in 'nihongo dake. ' She didnt like it, its like the opposite of warui gaijin in japan. Hihihi!

As it was the gig had a lot of Nihonjin, sadly they laugh at my poor grammar!
nakimashita yo!

What band was playing ?

 

[den4]

Originally posted by kaz
I think Japanese way of learning English is very inefficient. They impose too much grammar stuff from A to Z. This morning I was trying to study French by using a book that i bought in Japan. It is to prepare for a French test administered by the government. It just has so much stuff that I would not need for everyday conversation. My Spanish is functional despite that I have not rigorously studied all the grammar items that are out there.

We should focus on basic conversation first--perhaps the first three years in middle school. Just let kids have fun with ENglish. And then slowly we can let them study grammar.

Is there an efficient way to learn engrish in Japan?
I haven't seen it.....

 

[senseiman]

I think there are a lot of problems with the Japanese educational system that lead to a lack of English ability. One thing is that the methods focus on reading and grammar instead of spoken English. Another big one is that the students have no motivation to actually learn to speak English, they are just being forced to study it in order to pass tests. It must breed a lot of resentment towards English (and learning in general) among the majority of students for whom constant drills, studying and discipline are not appealing.

IT is not at all unique to Japan though. In Canada, all English speaking students have to study French and all French speaking students have to study English from kindergarten to high school. You'd think we'd be a completely bilingual nation, but in reality few adults can speak their official second langauge much better than Japanese can speak English.

 

[arnadstephen]

for going on seven years whose Japanese was very basic and rudimentary at best

If I did live in Japan, my ability to learn languages is n-o-t the best.

I don't know how much I would master after 7 or 10 years.

Look some people would be fluent, me I would be basic
and maybe a little better than basic (I hope more than rudimentary).

_.

 

[Lycaenion]

I think there are a lot of problems with the Japanese educational system that lead to a lack of English ability. One thing is that the methods focus on reading and grammar instead of spoken English. Another big one is that the students have no motivation to actually learn to speak English, they are just being forced to study it in order to pass tests. It must breed a lot of resentment towards English (and learning in general) among the majority of students for whom constant drills, studying and discipline are not appealing.
IT is not at all unique to Japan though. In Canada, all English speaking students have to study French and all French speaking students have to study English from kindergarten to high school. You'd think we'd be a completely bilingual nation, but in reality few adults can speak their official second langauge much better than Japanese can speak English.

I really don't think they are bad at it because they're forced to learn it. We are "forced' to learn it here in the Netherlands too, and German and French. Pretty much all the Dutch can speak/write/read English. And to a smaller extent German and French. (Though I pretty much forgot those languages since I don't practice them)

I believe it has to do with the fact that most things (music/tv/books) are in the original language they were created. We just put subtitles on tv shows. That's what subtitles are for. Anyways, we were always "forced" to speak English in class. That was a huge part of your grade.

 

[Revenant]

I speak rudimentary Japanese, but understand a lot more, and that's cause I'm somewhat antisocial, I prefer staying at home and doing my own thing most times, I teach English to students that want to speak English, my co-workers all speak English, and my family speaks or at least understand English (I speak to my son in English, but he usually responds in Japanese).

I have been here eleven years, and I just can't sit down and get into studying Japanese from a textbook all by myself, but were I able to get a teacher (I had one for a short time, but then she moved to China, and other Japanese teachers are just too busy, and my schedule doesn't allow me to attend any set classes), I would have little trouble picking up Japanese.

It's actually quite common for children of immigrants (both mother and father are from China or India or some other place) to speak the parent's native tongue very well, till they enter elementary school, after which they understand their parent's native tongue but forget how to speak it well. My father's business partner, a second generation Japanese, is now studying Japanese for his trips back to Japan.

In short, I'm a lazy bastard, but my Japanese really did improve quite a bit when all my co-workers were Japanese Elementary school teachers who mostly didn't speak English. I learned a lot more Japanese in the last five years because I had to than in the first six years I was here. I am considering going Mike Cash's way and getting a job that's not related to teaching English just to experience a different kind of job here, and also that it's more stable than my assortment of part time jobs and private students I have at this time.

Refusing to speak the language was what one school did, all the teacher's decided they simply would stop their ears to Japanese with the idea that they would create the need for their students to speak English. Dunno how well that worked, but the article said at the end of one year, they only knew one word in Japanese. Personally I find it useful to help beginner students if I explain the meaning or give background info on something I'm teaching in Japanese.

 

[Mike Cash]

Nothing will inspire progress quite like having the rent and groceries dependent upon it.

 

[Pachipro]

Nothing will inspire progress quite like having the rent and groceries dependent upon it.

Very true Mike. During the years I lived in Japan I first had a basic understanding of the language through a few classes I took while I was in the military and this suited me quite well. After that ended and I entered university, I found myself living alone in the suburbs, in a Japanese apartment and wholly dependent on Japanese for my everyday living like shopping, going to the bank, post office, etc. None of my Japanese friends or neighbors spoke English nor did I have any English speaking friends in my neighborhood save for one or two. Therefore, I was forced to learn the language, through my own choice, or live of life of frustration for the next four years and it paid off handsomely with many dividends.

Needless to say, when your livelihood and sanity depends on it you quickly learn the language and build upon the basics you already mastered.

Sure, I knew many a foreigner who lived in Japan many years and still could not speak the language on the most basic lever, but as Iron Chef pointed out above, they had no desire to learn and hung out with mostly other foreigners while I chose not to.

On the other hand, I also knew/know more than a few Japanese here in the states who have lived here more than five years and they know hardly nothing of the language as when they arrived here. They depend on translators at their company and hang out with their Japanese counterparts on the weekends golfing and drinking, etc.

To live in Japan as a foreigner or in another country as a Japanese for more than 5 years and not know how to hold a basic conversation in the country you are living in is sad. Very sad.

 

[jerryleouiche]

False reverse case

We had a Japanese cook down in Paris in a Zen Ryorido restaurant.

For years he fakes knowing zilch in French. We had to speak through gestures.

One year a girl in the kitchen says something very gross in French and here we go, he rolls all over the floor laughing his arse out !

 

[Nieves and Co]

I think the links in the first post are broken, but yeah, upon my first decade living in Nihon, I can and will get a house, a job, a wife & kids, and have already mastered Nihongo on the side.

Dude's just too lazy to learn, hahahaha.

 

[Mike Cash]

I think the links in the first post are broken, but yeah, upon my first decade living in Nihon, I can and will get a house, a job, a wife & kids, and have already mastered Nihongo on the side.

Dude's just too lazy to learn, hahahaha.

First catch your Boer; then kick him.

 

[Mike Cash]

A couple of real-life examples of people content to wallow in ignorance.

www.gaijinriders.com/showthread.php?7397-For-the-kanji-challenged-Furigana-inserter-for-Firefox-4-Mac

 

[Nieves and Co]

He, you want "Real-Life Examples"? Come to P.R, it's just the same ignorance, but with these undesirable monkeys and the English Language. -.-

Right now, I'm listening to Minna no Nihongo (CD 1) auditorials.

 

[Kama]

What was your point, Mike?

 

[Mike Cash]

What was your point, Mike?

About what? I don't understand your question.

 

[Kama]

A couple of real-life examples of people content to wallow in ignorance.

What was your point in showing this link? I don't get it.

 

[Mike Cash]

What was your point in showing this link? I don't get it.

The Iinked thread contains comments from people who are content to live in Japan and remain ignorant of the language. This thread (on jref) was started based on made-up examples of such people. The point was clearly stated in my post.

 

[Kama]

Are you sure these people live 10 years in Japan too?

Of course, I don't like such an attitude and think that's probably something wrong with their memory (during one weekend in Oslo I've learned a lot of words) or so... But... Aren't you a bit too edgy about that?

Let them be, it's their problem.

 

[Mike Cash]

They're mostly military retirees who have been here quite a long while but whose lives center around the US bases.

In what way was I being "edgy"? And in what way was I bothering them? For that matter, how is it any if your damned business to tell me to let them be? You certainly dont practice what you preach.

 

[Pachipro]

Enjoyed reading that link Mike. Thanks. Also, enjoyed reading a few of the other links like speeding tickets and such. It does seem by their replies that couldn't care less if they ever learn the language or not. I guess they are content in their ignorance since most of what they need is available on the bases and a few words and phrases are all they need to skate by. Your reply to them was also spot on.

 

[Half-n-Half]

The user who posted about his encounter with a police officer takes the cake. I had no idea someone could be boastful about something like that.

 

[Kama]

They're mostly military retirees who have been here quite a long while but whose lives center around the US bases.

In what way was I being "edgy"? And in what way was I bothering them? For that matter, how is it any if your damned business to tell me to let them be? You certainly dont practice what you preach.

And what's your business in telling them they should learn Japanese?

I mean that despite all the time I have been here, I have never bothered to remember what the holidays are or when they come. So at work I am always surprised to find out that the next day is a holiday and I have the day off.

Oh yeah...

Found it by chance, btw, when looking for topics about Linux.

 

[Mike Cash]

Point out for me where I told them they should learn Japanese.

And try minding your own damned business for a change. I really don't appreciate your little campaign of personal antagonism.

 

[nellie1208]

Re:

Why does he refuse to speak Japanese? It is so cool to speak Japanese and I really find it amazing when someone tries to speak other language.

Like me, I've been wanting to study and practice this language to be able to interact with other Japanese. I do love their culture, and I want to share with them my culture as well as my knowledge of any other things.

I've been practicing for how many months now. And, once I get fluent to this language, I'll be studying their written.

 

[Rube]

or that they shouldn't make it easier to establish immigrant neighborhoods and communities.

You haven't heard of China town? Or the Brazilian neighborhoods? Immigrants carve out their own spot, but only if they plan to stay, white people don't tend to stay too long.