Some Translations

[tnsah]

Hello, could you find any possible errors in my Japanese sentences and suggest the best possible wording for them?

1. If you want me to give you my book and pencil, you have to tell me why you want them. (polite)

--> あなたは、あなたに私の本と鉛筆お上げるのというが欲しければ、どうして欲しいか私に言わなくてはいけませんよ。
(Anata wa, anata ni watashi no hon to enpitsu o ageru no to iuga hoshikereba, dōshitehoshī ka watashi ni iwanakute wa ikemasen yo.)

2. Does Susuki know that Ichirou went to her house yesterday? (casual)

--> 昨日に鈴木さんは一郎さんが彼女の家を行ったってゆうのが知るの？
(Kinō ni Suzuki-san wa Ichirō-san ga kanojo no ie o itta tte yū no ga shiru no?)

 

[Mike Cash]

First, clarify if by "give" you actually mean "loan".

 

[tnsah]

I mean loan.
What would it be if it were a permanent exchange?

 

[nice gaijin]

1. If you want me to give you my book and pencil, you have to tell me why you want them. (polite)

--> あなたは、あなたに私の本と鉛筆お上げるのというが欲 しければ、どうして欲しいか私に言わなくてはいけませ んよ。
(Anata wa, anata ni watashi no hon to enpitsu o ageru no to iuga hoshikereba, dōshitehoshī ka watashi ni iwanakute wa ikemasen yo.)

If you want the best possible wording for a situation where someone wants an explanation why they should lend their pen to someone politely, it probably wouldn't use the imperative (ie, I'd ask them for a reason, rather than demand one). I'd also drop all the pronouns; the speaker and listener know from the context who is who.

the grammar structure for wanting someone to do something is ～てほしい. 上げる is to raise, あげる is to give, 貸す is to lend. 理由を教える is to give (teach) a reason. を is the particle for direct object, お is NOT a particle.

grammatically, the second half of your sentence is understandable, but given the situation it doesn't seem like the best fit.

2. Does Suzuki know that Ichirou went to her house yesterday? (casual)

--> 昨日に鈴木さんは一郎さんが彼女の家を行ったってゆう のが知るの？
(Kinō ni Suzuki-san wa Ichirō-san ga kanojo no ie o itta tte yū no ga shiru no?)

昨日 is never followed by に. 昨日、明日、今日、明後日、来週、来年are all relative times, and do not take a に particle. Specific times like ３時、明日十時半、去年の一月、１９８０三月２４日、etc would take に

you could say 行ったのが知って(い)る／知って(い)た？ or 行ったって知って(い)る／知って(い)た？ to be more colloquial

 

[tnsah]

Oh, sorry. When I was typing up the Japanese sentences, I accidentally clicked the wrong suggestions.
I meant "ageru" without the kanji and the "o" particle as the hiragana for "wo", not "o".

Anyway, thanks for the revision!

 

[Mike Cash]

As a practical matter, in the course of a conversation the first would probably be a simple:

なぜ？ or どうして？

as everything else would be obvious from context.

 

[tnsah]

(to Mike Cash) Yeah, I was just trying out my Japanese grammar. I couldn't think of a more logical sentence that uses the same amount of Japanese grammatical concepts.

Also, I don't know where my first sentence uses the imperative. What needs to be changed to ask for a reason instead of outright demand?
For the second sentence, nice gaijin mentioned that I "could say" the more colloquial versions of the end of the sentence. But was the end of the sentence still grammatically correct to begin with?

 

[Mike Cash]

You're trying to use constructions that it seems you haven't learned yet.

Have you encountered the verbs of giving/receiving yet?

やる
あげる
さしあげる
くれる
くださる
もらう
いただく

and their usage in conjunction with a preceding verb in 〜て form?

 

[tnsah]

Well, I know "ageru" (in just hiragana) means to give to somebody else other than the speaker.
"kureru" means to give (the speaker). Oh, and "morau" means to receive.

In the third-person, ageru is from the perspective of the giver and kureru is from the perspective of the receiver.
"Yaru" means to give to a pet or animal.

When ageru or kureru are combined with the -te form of a verb, it means along the lines of "to do favor of..." as a way of making a request. Using -kudasai with the te form is a polite way of asking someone to do something, and using the negative form of a verb + de + kudasai is politely telling someone not to do something.

Is that right?

 

[Mike Cash]

That's the general idea. Had you already learned those before or did you just go look them up? Try your first sentence again using this construction.

Have you learned 〜たい ?

 

[tnsah]

I already learned them. Although, I guess I don't know how to implement them correctly.

I don't know which construction I should use. (te form + ageru or te form + kudasai?) I don't know which verb I should make into the te form because I only have one verb in that clause (to give).

When you have the stem of the verb + tai, that means "want to do something." But it can only be used to describe what the speaker wants. Otherwise, it would have to be used in a question to describe what someone else wants.

 

[Mike Cash]

Try with 貸す

 

[tnsah]

あなたに私の本と鉛筆を貸して欲しければのというが、どうして欲しいか私に言わなくてはいけませ んよ。

better?

EDIT:
あなたに私の本と鉛筆を貸してあげればのというが、どうして欲しいか私に言わなくてはいけませ んよ。

What about that?

 

[Mike Cash]

Where do you get のというが from?

 

[tnsah]

Well, I thought if you wanted to express "that" you would have to first enclose it with "iu" and "to". The "no" is referring to the action of giving something (?) I'm not entirely sure.

As in, "If you want that I give you my pencil and book..."

Could I say "kaetta to iu omotta..." to mean "I thought (that) he returned"?

Although if I'm wrong, how would you word it?

 

[Toritoribe]

に indicates the agent who actually do something, not the one who wants to be done something in the structure ～に…て欲しい. The subject (the one who wants to be done) is usually interpreted as the speaker in this case.

（私は）あなたに私の本と鉛筆を貸して欲しい。
I want you to give me my book and pencil.

Whereas に indicates the target you do something for in the structure ～に…てあげる. The subject is usually the speaker also in this case.

（私が）あなたに私の本と鉛筆を貸してあげる。
I'll give you my book and pencil. (lit. I'll give you the favor of lending my book and pencil.)

This misuse of the particle is one of your major errors.

 

[Mike Cash]

I've been trying to avoid bringing it up because even I'm getting sick and tired of hearing me say it.....

Are you teaching yourself using reference books and stuff you find online?

 

[tnsah]

Thanks for the clarification.
Although, if （私が）あなたに私の本と鉛筆を貸してあげる。means "I'll give you my book and pencil"
Then how would you say "if you want that I give you my book and pencil..."

 

[tnsah]

No, I use an app called "Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese", which is not exactly online but is a self-teaching guide.
Based on your tone, I assume this is a frowned upon thing?

EDIT:
Wait, let me fix something from earlier:
should it be "kaetta to iu no ga omotta", instead of "kaetta to iu omotta"?

 

[Toritoribe]

Thanks for the clarification.
Although, if （私が）あなたに私の本と鉛筆を貸してあげる。means "I'll give you my book and pencil"
Then how would you say "if you want that I give you my book and pencil..."

Who is the subject of the sentence "you want that I give you my book and pencil"?

Hint:
Doesn't "you want that I give you my book and pencil" have similar structure, not the meaning, as "I want you to give me my book and pencil"?

 

[Mike Cash]

"You want that I (verb)" is poor English. Sounds like Mrs, Nussbaum on the old Fred Allen radio program.

 

[tnsah]

"You want that I (verb)" is poor English.

Well, I was actually using a literal, non-grammatically correct translation that would fit much better to Japanese.
I know it's supposed to be "you want me to give you my book and pencil" not "you want that I give..." I just wanted to emphasize the "that" part of it. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[Mike Cash]

Well, I was actually using a literal, non-grammatically correct translation that would fit much better to Japanese.
I know it's supposed to be "you want me to give you my book and pencil" not "you want that I give..." I just wanted to emphasize the "that" part of it. Sorry if I confused you.

But it isn't there in Japanese either. This is your own invention. How would you know it "fit better" to Japanese?

 

[tnsah]

Who is the subject of the sentence "you want that I give you my book and pencil"?

Hint:
Doesn't "you want that I give you my book and pencil" have similar structure, not the meaning, as "I want you to give me my book and pencil"?

Well that's not all of the sentence I originally had.
My original sentence was "If you want me to give you my book and pencil, you have to tell me why you want them."
And refer to my previous post on how I didn't actually mean "you want that I give you my book and pencil" but rather "you want me to give you my book and pencil".

Wouldn't "you" be the subject of that sentence since "you" is doing the main actions?

 

[Mike Cash]

No, I use an app called "Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese", which is not exactly online but is a self-teaching guide.
Based on your tone, I assume this is a frowned upon thing?

EDIT:
Wait, let me fix something from earlier:
should it be "kaetta to iu no ga omotta", instead of "kaetta to iu omotta"?

Your edit is a perfect example of why learning from reference materials instead of proper textbooks sucks like an Electrolux.

Tae Kim's guide is actually smiled upon by the people who use it, though I have yet to encounter one who has done a decent job learning from it. My opinion of it is that it is better than nothing and worth every penny you paid for it.

Get a proper textbook and workbook and you'll be doing yourself a tremendous favor.