So, What Do The Japanese Think About Japan?

Pachipro · 12 Apr 2005

The recent thread on gestures reminded me of something. I was unable to find reference to it in the search so maybe nothing has been posted about it. However, I do feel it will be a learning experience to all on this site.

Alot of debate and opinions have been expressed on this forum concerning all things related to Japan and Japanese customs and culture. Mainly, these opinions and comments have been expressed by foreigners either living in Japan or who have a deep interest in Japan. But what does the rare Japanese rebel, non-conformist think about his own country, customs, and culture? I mean a Japanese rebel who is REALLY not happy with his own culture and customs.

I found an interesting site that had me rolling on the floor with laughter as not only were his pictures great, but his comments (in the funniest Janglish I have ever read) and philosophy concerning life in Japan that anyone who has lived in or visited Japan sees everyday and hardly gives a second thought to. But, they are honest and, for the most part, right on the mark.

Check it out for an interesting, informative, eye-opening experience as seen through the eyes of a Japanese non-conformist. First read his comment on the left side of the page under Recent Comments, "for Non Japanese People Visitor" to get an insight on what his site is about.

MasaManiA

Any Comments?

FireyRei · 16 Apr 2005

Most Japanese here are content with what they have, because most Japanese people aren't concerned about being anything other than Japanese.

It's the Japanese people living abroad and not wanting to come back you need to speak to.

cicatriz esp · 16 Apr 2005

My girlfriend is the poster child for a Japanese hating Japan. I'll try to get her to post, but it's not likely.

MajideSaiaku · 17 Apr 2005

i dont know if my g/f hates japan, but she certainly has less then happy thoughts on the prospect of dating a japanese guy, i get the impression that if somehow we split up (not f'in likely) she wouldnt date a japanese guy =/.

senator · 17 Apr 2005

Japaness protesters and chinese protesters go on...

the people can fell free to express one's opinions by using a way of demonstration, it does not forbid in democratic nations..

misa.j · 18 Apr 2005

Pachipro,
I've been to the web site you posted. It was pretty funny, could tell that Masa was not vety fond of the Japanese businessmen.

I had to let your question sink in for a day, though it's still hard to put all of my thoughts into words.

I have complexed opinions about Japan, in 10 or 20 years, maybe I have more positive ones. I was born, raised and lived there for more than 2 decades, which makes me think and act as a Japanese in some ways but for the most part, Japan doesn't seem like a country where I picture myself being comfortable in right now, or ever since I was a teenager. I especially had a hard time in schools with those male teachers, who were obviously over 50 years old and didn't hesitate to use physical discipline on the students.
I don't really hate the country or anything since I'm not there and don't have to deal with the things that used to bother me, but I'm happier in the states.

Had I been interested in and studied about traditional art or culture, I might have been proud or at least had something to give a prospect to it, but I always thought they were full of strict rules that I could never follow or make sense out of.

Pachipro · 19 Apr 2005

misa.j said:
I have complexed opinions about Japan, in 10 or 20 years, maybe I have more positive ones. I was born, raised and lived there for more than 2 decades, which makes me think and act as a Japanese in some ways but for the most part, Japan doesn't seem like a country where I picture myself being comfortable in right now, or ever since I was a teenager. I especially had a hard time in schools with those male teachers, who were obviously over 50 years old and didn't hesitate to use physical discipline on the students.
I don't really hate the country or anything since I'm not there and don't have to deal with the things that used to bother me, but I'm happier in the states.

Very interesting reply misa. j. You sound exactly like my wife. Although she has no desire to move back there right now while she is still working, she feels much the way you do for the obvious reasons you stated and then some.

However, she and I do plan on returning there permanently after we retire in a few years when we will not have to work if we don't want to. Also, since she is an only child and her mother is pushing 70, we know we will have to return to care for her should her health start to decline. She says that as long as she doesn't have to work and put up the discrimination against females, she wouldn't mind living there. For now though, she is quite content living here in the states as she says she feels much freeer and doesn't have to act the role of an oksan. She can be herself.

ralian · 20 Apr 2005

Recent fashion trend in Japan is bizarre. I don't understand it.
A lot of Japanese girls & boys who visit Australia have same sort of orange colour hair.
Same fashion, same make up, same hair colour. Everything has to be the same.
That's something I do not like.
We are all different and we should accept and celebrate our difference.
I can relax here in Australia as I don't have to try to be the same.

Alter Zetsuei · 20 Apr 2005

Pachipro said:
She says that as long as she doesn't have to work and put up the discrimination against females, she wouldn't mind living there.

So gender discrimination is that big a thing there, eh? It's not something that's been completely abolished in other countries such as Canada and the U.S., and gender inequalities still exist in the workforce. But I was sorta hoping the Japanese lived so differently that they were above this already.

Pachipro · 20 Apr 2005

Alter Zetsuei said:
So gender discrimination is that big a thing there, eh? It's not something that's been completely abolished in other countries such as Canada and the U.S., and gender inequalities still exist in the workforce. But I was sorta hoping the Japanese lived so differently that they were above this already.

Sorry to burst your bubble here Alter Zetsuei, but gender discrimination is as rampant in Japan as it ever was. It may be abolished in other countries and in Japan on paper, but it is still rampant. This I hear from my wife who hears from her working college friends in Japan (who are over 40) and from others on this forum as well as other forums.

A Japanese woman is still expected to "retire" from the workforce by the time she is 30 to raise a family and have children. If she isn't "retired" she is looked down upon as being something weird or out of the ordinary. However, if she has a strong personality and can control the males, she can succeed. This has occurred, but is rare indeed as most Japanese women succumb to what is expected of them. Just read the threads concerning sexless marriages and such and you will see what I am talking about as many Japanese women go on to and graduate from college only to stop working to have a family as that is what is expected of them. It's a sad, but true, fact of Japanese culture even in the 21st century.

kirei_na_me · 20 Apr 2005

I wouldn't say my husband hates Japan, but he doesn't want to live there ever again. He says the U.S. is his home now. I think he enjoys not having the pressure on him that he had while living in Japan. Mainly pressure from work, but also social and family pressure. A lot of specifics I could go into, but I don't have time.

The thing is, he's chonan, and I've never gotten a clear answer on what he's planning to do about his parents. I have yet to get a straight answer. At one time, he was saying his sister would take responsibility, but I don't know...

Alter Zetsuei · 20 Apr 2005

Retiring at age 30 is just unheard of for me. They must still be following those old traditional ways... a little surprising considering that kind of mentality is a little outdated, well, ideally speaking. Hopefully their younger generation won't be like this.

misa.j · 20 Apr 2005

kirei-na-me said:
The thing is, he's chonan, and I've never gotten a clear answer on what he's planning to do about his parents. I have yet to get a straight answer. At one time, he was saying his sister would take responsibility, but I don't know...

I have an older brother who lives nearby my parents and look after them, so I don't really have to worry about going back to Japan to take care of my parents, but it is definitely an issue when your parents get older.
My parents used to bug me about me leaving them and not staying close to them because that was how they grew up, living close to their parents and siblings.

Pachipro · 21 Apr 2005

kirei_na_me said:
I wouldn't say my husband hates Japan, but he doesn't want to live there ever again. He says the U.S. is his home now. I think he enjoys not having the pressure on him that he had while living in Japan. Mainly pressure from work, but also social and family pressure. A lot of specifics I could go into, but I don't have time.

The thing is, he's chonan, and I've never gotten a clear answer on what he's planning to do about his parents. I have yet to get a straight answer. At one time, he was saying his sister would take responsibility, but I don't know...

Considering Japan, my wife could take it or leave it. Me I'll take it! I must agree that he probably does not enjoy having the pressure on him that he had in Japan as I hear it so often from Japanese males here at the company I used to work at and which my wife still does.

Being chonan is quite a burden as he is the eldest son and, by tradition, is EXPECTED and required to care for the parents. I think that explains why he hasn't given you a straight answer. It's probably bothering him internally. His sister, or the next eldest, would probably take over the duties but, according to my wife, they probably wouldn't be happy about it as, according to custom, it's "his duty" as the eldest. But that depends on the family and such. I feel for him.

Pachipro · 21 Apr 2005

Alter Zetsuei said:
Retiring at age 30 is just unheard of for me. They must still be following those old traditional ways... a little surprising considering that kind of mentality is a little outdated, well, ideally speaking. Hopefully their younger generation won't be like this.

The younger generation is changing, but not as fast as some women would like to see them change. The pressure to leave a company and get married is so great, not only from the male bosses but from the family as well, that a lot of women just give in to it.

I fell in love with my wife because she was a rebel, like myself, and would not "toe the line" concerning the traditional role of women when it came to women in the workforce. She still works at a Japanese company and is well respected and paid for what she does. One Japanese co-worker once told me that "if she were to leave, the company would probably go downhill." She was a woman's libber, so to speak, back in 1981 when I first met her.

However, in the house, that's another story. One would believe that she was your typical oksan (housewife). I am treated like any Japanese man would be treated by their wives. I don't know how (or why) she does it, but it's an anomoly I have learned to live with these past 24 years and I truly respect her!

Misa.J said:
My parents used to bug me about me leaving them and not staying close to them because that was how they grew up, living close to their parents and siblings.

I'm lucky, (and my wife also), in that my wife's parents (her mother only now ) didn't pressure her or "bug her" about moving away from them being the only child when we decided to return to the states some 16 1/2 years ago. They freely gave their daughter the freedom to do what she wanted to do regardless of their feelings. I really respect them for that and they always treated me like a son. I did promise the father though (without my wife's knowledge) that I would return at least once a year to visit them. And I did promise my father-in-law, before he died (again without my wife's knowledge), that should anything ever happen to him, that we would take care of his wife to the end and not let her end her days in a nursing home or something like that. I have kept, and will continue to keep, that promise. Should anything happen to her mother health wise we are out of here tomorrow!

misa.j · 21 Apr 2005

Pachipro said:
A Japanese woman is still expected to "retire" from the workforce by the time she is 30 to raise a family and have children. If she isn't "retired" she is looked down upon as being something weird or out of the ordinary. However, if she has a strong personality and can control the males, she can succeed.

That seems to be changing slowly. I worked at several places in Japan including the judicial affairs office which was run by the government, a private market research company, hospital and retail stores; there were women who worked full-time and were over 30, 40 and even 50.
It seems to me that some organizations are allowing women to stay even after they have children as long as they have skills and their private lives don't interfere their work.

Alter Zetsuei · 21 Apr 2005

You're a real swell guy, Pachipro. Thanks for sharing your past with us. It's great to hear stories with happy endings. I've been watching too much of the Dr. Phil show

Pachipro · 22 Apr 2005

misa.j said:
That seems to be changing slowly. I worked at several places in Japan including the judicial affairs office which was run by the government, a private market research company, hospital and retail stores; there were women who worked full-time and were over 30, 40 and even 50.
It seems to me that some organizations are allowing women to stay even after they have children as long as they have skills and their private lives don't interfere their work.

Thanks for that info misa, that is really good news indeed. I'm glad to hear that they are slowly coming around and allowing most women over age 30 to work full time instead of just arubaito. Even 50! They really are coming around.

I will mention that to my wife tonite, but I'm sure she'll say, "I knew that," as we haven't discussed this subject in a while and she does try to keep abreast of things like this in Japan with her friends (who are still working full time past age 40) and such. Maybe it's me who should "get with the times!"
Thanks to this forum and its people, I can learn something new everyday.

misa.j · 22 Apr 2005

Pachipro,
There is another option for your wife; should she wish to continue working after going back to Japan, maybe she can work from home or start her own business by using her experience and language skill she has earned in the states.

Or you and your wife open up a bicycle shop for foreigners in Japan!

FireyRei · 23 Apr 2005

It's getting better for women, still not equal, but better as more women I meet are single in their mid-thirties and happy in their jobs.

Pachipro · 25 Apr 2005

misa.J said:
Pachipro,
There is another option for your wife; should she wish to continue working after going back to Japan, maybe she can work from home or start her own business by using her experience and language skill she has earned in the states.

Funny you should mention that as that's exactly what we discussed this morning. She would rather work from home she said rather than facing a commute to Tokyo everyday.

Or you and your wife open up a bicycle shop for foreigners in Japan!

Yes, but I think I'd have to do some pro bono work also to make amends for my past indescrition. :sorry:

yukio_michael · 25 Apr 2005

One thing I will tell you, I have heard more Japanese people complain about the dearth of unique food / teas in the United states than I have ever heard them once complain about say, an aspect of their own government, and that is in close living conditions.

masamasa · 29 Apr 2005

ralian said:
Recent fashion trend in Japan is bizarre. I don't understand it.
A lot of Japanese girls & boys who visit Australia have same sort of orange colour hair.
Same fashion, same make up, same hair colour. Everything has to be the same.
That's something I do not like.
We are all different and we should accept and celebrate our difference.
I can relax here in Australia as I don't have to try to be the same.

I'm embarressed as a japanese that Japanese travelers get laughed at in Australia. I think it's strange that everyone pretends to be the same.Once they love Ayumi Hamasaki,they all imitate her. If Avril Lavigne would come next , they'd follow her.

Do you think Japanese girls look cute with orange hair?Or it seems good to keep the hair black?
(Actually,I prefer orange-haired...)

ralian · 30 Apr 2005

masamasa said:
I'm embarressed as a japanese that Japanese travelers get laughed at in Australia. I think it's strange that everyone pretends to be the same.Once they love Ayumi Hamasaki,they all imitate her. If Avril Lavigne would come next , they'd follow her.

Do you think Japanese girls look cute with orange hair?Or it seems good to keep the hair black?
(Actually,I prefer orange-haired...)

Some girls look really cute.
But why is it that they all have the same hair colour?
You can choose to be different if you want. You can have red hair for example.

About 2 or 3 years ago, Japanese Gospel choir came to Australia, so I went to see them. The performance was fantastic! However, I found it rather strange that all of them (100 singers) had bleached blond hair including the conductor. ☝

I went to Bali a couple of months ago, and people said to me, "Oh, Japanese girls are so pretty". That's a nice compliment, isn't it? Japanese young girls are very cute, indeed. I agree. (I'm not a young girl, so I didn't include myself here) What I would like to see is more individuality. It's cool to be different.

So, What Do The Japanese Think About Japan?

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