So... how do YOU deal with Japan obessessed maniacs?

[yukio_michael]

I wasn't sure what you meant here. Did you mean that many people aren't obsessed with American culture?

I'm saying that, this sort of thing gets said again and again, that so many people are obsessed with American culture, and I just don't think that is true.

If people listen to rock & roll and wear blue jeans, they are obsessed with American culture, if people eat at McDonalds, or a McDonalds even exists in their neighborhood, they are inundated with "American Culture"... I'm saying that there can be individuals that try to emulate Western culture in some way, but I don't think it's as preconceived a notion as some people think it is.

The opposite is actually much more visible, where Americans, not even just Americans, quite a lot of people are visibly trying to emulate Japanese culture. I'm not talking about buying BAPE or Hysteric Glamour, but people wanting to carry katana, or wear kimono, & basing all of their interests on the output of Japan.

It's kind of sounding rather like a 'we know better than you' thread from your comments, Emoni and yukio_michael. I'm not so sure on the validity of that position. You seem to be comparing a dream which seems to be just that with the reality. My question would be just what is the reality of life in Japan? Can you answer that? Can anyone answer that emphatically? Or do we all know small pieces of Japan and it's culture and apply those pieces with a broad brush?

I try to make it very clear that I don't feel as if having lived there for a short time has earned me a vast & superior knowledge of Japanese society--- I do try my best to understand that society, generally this involves more than reading manga & watching anime.

Everyone's reality of life in Japan is different, but you're saying then that because we can't all weave one common narative that it's impossible to say that life in Japan isn't the way they portray it in anime? It certainly can be. Anime & manga have a tendency to amplify institutionalized aspects of Japanese culture and language... but I think you'll get a better understanding of what Japan is like by being there, rather than reading or watching someone's idealized image of it.

Japan can be as superficial or deep as you want it to be.

Of course. I don't even have a big issue with whatever you might call 'superficial' in Japan... I just think that you shouldn't base your ideas of a country on second and third hand information.

 

[Philanti]

Many soulful people have obsessions in their early times, check the history, how the geniuses grow up with somewhat particular interests, even none or only few of those do become their professions. I am tended to think that Newton was obsessed with alchemy, and Dickens with paranormals.

I think i am crazy about American films, and others things american, and J-Pop, even western classical music, so far so are all my close friends. Japan is an incredible country to me because there are some very attractive guys in the pop music. especially Hyde of Larc. they are the very people that always attract me back to them when i begin to be disenchanted away to something else for 1 or 2 years many times. this is very incredible.

Dont be worried about us, about the Japan obsession it is obvious we are dealing with ourselves, no others! so far we are fine with whatever obsessions.

 

[Live91]

Hm I was slightly obsessed with Japan but I finally came to my senses and realized that while I might like it and visit someday just for fun, I shouldn't be speaking about it as if I knew everything about it. Well I guess I already grew a wee-bit out of my japan obsession. Now I need to purge myself from the food...XD then I'll be go back to being the healthy 15 year old girl that I was.

 

[Sariki-san]

To be honest with you, I just kind of ignore them. I used too be one of those... and now I am not due to my maturaty as I grew older.
~Sariki

 

[craftsman]

I'm saying that, this sort of thing gets said again and again, that so many people are obsessed with American culture, and I just don't think that is true.

It doesn't really matter, but I only brought it up because I thought that Stargazer's post seemed quite rational and had some points but then got emphatically blasted in your reply. It's just when I lived in the middle east I felt that America and anything coming out of America was held in a similar obsessive light as some people see Japan.

Of course I get your point and its a valid one but I'm just trying to figuratively throw smoke bombs in your path.

 

[Emoni]

I never saw the same "Oh Japan is obsessed with America!" situation that many claim either when I was in Japan, or outside. The only thing I can think that comes close is the hip-hop music stuff, but even then the situations aren't comparable any American counterpart.

 

[yukio_michael]

Of course I get your point and its a valid one but I'm just trying to figuratively throw smoke bombs in your path.

I don't mind a good argument... I honestly have nothing personally against anyone however they spend their time... I don't think that there is a "right or wrong" appreciation of Japan...* If you choose to spend all your time watching anime, that's no concern of mine. I just think you're at a different vantage to discussing Japan, beyond that narrow interest.

Interestingly, there is a book written by Peter Carey, called Wrong About Japan... I haven't read it, but it concerns a sort of slapdash travelogue account of a father and son and their quest to "understand" anime and this culture in Japan.

The book seems to be universally reviled in the fact that it neither sheds no new light on the subject, nor delves much deeper than a list of names and places. I don't know what the inference in the title of the book is, that there is a cultural importance that the author was "wrong" about...? I surely think that anime and manga are important cultural aspects of Japan... it's a shame that the author didn't really put much effort into writing about them.

Maybe I misread Stargazer's post... I think his statement may be that obession is something personal that can't be understood outside of certain group of similarly obsessed people.

It's simply that this website fields a lot of questions based around something someone once saw in an anime, or read in maga--- And the this tends to be rule, not the exception.

*I don't think that obsession in general is healthy, and its some of these obsessive actions that I do try to point out. Some people's appreiciation of Japan may never go beyond anime/jrock, whathaveyou... It just happens that these people tend to show the most obsessive qualities.

 

[Riyko]

To answer the original question asked I've dealt with people like that and I just tell them the truth it's their choice to take what I tell them or leave it. I know someone who said she's going to move and live in japan, I told her the truth about everything she'd need to move and work in japan and she didn't listen now I'm just waiting for her to come crawling back to me whining and complaning about how she couldn't make it over in japan.

Some people are obsessed with one part or another of japanese culture and take what they see and make it into what the country is like. I know some people who want to live over in japan because they think it's like what they saw in an anime and it's not. I watch anime (violent ones (I like violence)) and listen to jrock, but I also love the culture and history. I also want to learn the language. I don't only watch japanese shows or listen to japanese music I mainly listen to German music and watch american shows.

 

[geishaboy]

When I first came across this forum, I thought that it was designed for the type of annoying Japanophiles described in here. This thread took me by surprise to say the least, so much so that I decided joining would be the only way to go.

As for the topic at hand, I think I am a kind of jumbled Japanophile, in the sense that, I went and lived and worked in Japan for about half a year (at the tender age of 18, it was a real eye opener), and then fell in love with the place. For example, I love Manga, I have a huge book shelf full of it, mostly in Japanese. But it's because I lived in Japan and got into it there that I love it now, not the other way around. I know the true meaning of otaku, but I still use it as internet slang for an anime fan.

And I do hope to go back there and live, but I am doing a degree in Japanese (second year), I was actually taking a break from kanji revision when I read this thread. Some people have told me I'm obsessed, other say that I just have an interest, but I like to think I'm not as bad as the absolute retards described.

As for the topic, when I meet people that are so clueless yet so enthusiastic about Japan, only know a few words of Japanese and watch anime all day, I can't help but think it's kinda cute. Like in a little kid kinda way. However when I come across, how can I put this... "Aggressive clueless Japanophiles", the type that say things like "Ha! You don't know anything about Japan, you're a Baka!" and will not listen to any kind of reason from anyone, even when they are just trying to help, I really feel like fly kicking them in the teeth.

 

[Emoni]

Welcome to the forum. There are plenty of obsessed maniacs on the forum and rejects who should have been banned long ago, but there are a handful of truly knowledgeable people who make it worth while posting over a winter break.

One thing I do want to stress is, that I'm mostly speaking of what you call the "Aggressive clueless Japanophiles", and not of those who simply enjoy, research, and like the culture and country. Otherwise, why would we all be posting on this board anyway? I guess I'm speaking against interest fuelled by ignorance and stupidity vs. interest supported by wisdom, reasoning, and experience as well as an open mind.
There is a great deal to be said for maintaining an open mind of other cultures, simply due to the fact that there will always be a few unexpected situations that even the most experienced person may not know how to react too at first (not that this doesn't apply to all aspects of life as well).

I'll say first hand that while ignoring the behavior is probably the most preferable option while outside of Japan, it becomes an entirely different situation IN Japan. I can stand as a firsthand witness to the level of damage these types of people can cause in the country both to themselves and every single person around them. When you see a person take their oblivious fantasy then forcefully apply it to the country and the people, and you are in the blast zone, then this sort of topic takes on an entirely new level.

I guess that is what I'll ask now, since we have mostly covered the idea outside of Japan: How do you handle these people when you are in group situations IN Japan?

For myself, I simply try to keep as much distance and lack of association as possible, but I'm curious as to other's opinions and methods.

 

[Philanti]

why? if Japan can not accept the consequence of its cultural influence there is nothing interesting at all ! If anime or manga can not really tell something true about the people and the actual life of them then, all those are worthless drivels. I see american films and cartoons are very coherent with reality since nobody got labelled unhealthy or a geek for appreciating them.

And, I say American culture is no less attractive to obsess people, but it just achieve at a more sophisticated level, and in very diversified ways that it becomes difficult for comon non-academic people to assume a panorama of this phenomenon.

 

[nice gaijin]

Is it ok to be a little disgusted when people take a look at (or choose to ignore) the reality of a country or culture, then consider "hot guys" or "cute girls" the biggest redeeming factor?

I think the revised question in Emoni's latest post is an interesting one, especially regarding people who come to Japan with certain expectations, and when they aren't met, try to apply their fantasy onto reality. I have spent much time avoiding these people, especially when they are from the same area as myself. I am already guilty by association, so much effort is spent in damage control mode, reassuring people here who have had bad experiences with self-affirmed otaku that "no, not all Americans/Californians/white folk/gaijin are like that."

To me, it seems that these people are the most likely to suffer breakdowns and depression (as I have witnessed this firsthand). When the fantasy collapses upon itself and the honeymoon period ends, where does that leave the dream of Japan?

 

[Emoni]

On the trip I went on, half went back the exact day the program ended they could (a couple almost left early... but that wouldn't have been their choice). Surprisingly enough, despite their near breakdowns, I've heard a few plan to return to Japan and seem to have reverted in some fashion to their previous fantasy. It is almost as if they have started to "forget" the harsh reality they JUST faced.

I guess this shouldn't be too much of a surprise, as most of these people I would expect have had reality staring them in the face for some time. They just choose to ignore it. I'm working on generalizations here, but I believe the point I'm making should be clear enough.

Some people just never learn.

 

[Karamuucho]

I never saw the same "Oh Japan is obsessed with America!" situation that many claim either when I was in Japan, or outside. The only thing I can think that comes close is the hip-hop music stuff, but even then the situations aren't comparable any American counterpart.

I've never seen, perhaps that extent of obsession, but I have come across a number of Japanese people who have said "Oh someday I wish to live in (foreign country, not specifically America)" and when asked why, they can't give an answer that is all too different from those I have seen from the westerners that want to live in Japan. Things like the people are so beautiful, I like the music/food/movies.

One thing I don't understand sometimes is when people say they like the culture of said country, but have never been there, and really only see the textbook/tv publicised culture of the country. For instance those who like anime & j-pop & video games, and therefor want to move to Japan. I feel as if that's not really enough of a reason to move country, lol, but perhaps just to visit once in a while.

There are other reasons people may want to move to a foreign country though, forget Japan and the west for a moment, but say poorer country to richer, then I can understand the obsession, as a way to make a living I would understand those who want to get out of conditions they can't live with, to a country they don't know a lot about. Thing is I don't see that as the case with anyone that wants to move to Japan though, haha.

 

[Davey]

I think everyone has their moments of being obsessed of something for a period in their life.

I have been obsessed with Japan as well for the last 2-3 years. 3 years ago I almost new nothing about Japan except for Ninja 's, Samurai Pizza cats (they are American... lol), and kamikaze pilots. But then in Australia I met a lot of Japanese, and got my firs interest in the country, than I met my girlfriend (we got married 1.5 year ago), and after we said goodbye in Australia, I knew I was going to Japan.

Because of this I decided to study as much about Japan as possible, culture, places, language (I failed in studying that one at home haha), etc. A lot of people told me I was obsessed and I kind of was, but for me it was important to learn as much as possible in a period of 1-2 years time.

 

[ghettocities]

Welcome to the forum. There are plenty of obsessed maniacs on the forum and rejects who should have been banned long ago,

I have a name, you know..

For myself, I simply try to keep as much distance and lack of association as possible, but I'm curious as to other's opinions and methods.

Internet > going outside.



Josh

 

[Karamuucho]

I guess that is what I'll ask now, since we have mostly covered the idea outside of Japan: How do you handle these people when you are in group situations IN Japan?
For myself, I simply try to keep as much distance and lack of association as possible, but I'm curious as to other's opinions and methods.

Thing is Japanophiles in Japan, that have been there a while, actually know a lot of facts based on personal experience, so no one can really say anything against them. Also there are a lot less of them in Japan, than on the internet, lol. The only really obsessive person I've met in Japan had only been there a short time, I just told him to enjoy it while he's there. Didn't seem fair to burst his bubble so soon after he landed, lol.

 

[dark_secrester]

I may be obsessed with Japan, but I'm not that naive about the country!

I know many Japanese people, have been to Japan twice, know a lot of culture and know quite a lot of the language. I think that you have to know a lot of the history to like something. I'm a history student and love to learn the background history of a country.
I don't really watch anime that much, and I don't like J-pop.
I have already visited the country, and want to live there for many reasons:
The work obsessed life that I have seen in tokyo - thats how I am. Work obsessed
Computers - Japan is big with computers, which I love to use and program with!
Games -Japan gets games before Britain
The Language - I love how it sounds
Politeness - Its a big difference to the people who live around my area. They are all yobs and theives etc. and you get people with guns. Bearing in mind that this is a little village in the middle of nowhere, this is bad.
Money - Always struggling for money here, and noone seems able to save a penny!
Tradition - I love traditional Japan
History - It bursts alive with history!!!

I may be an obsessed maniac, but at least I like to learn about it, and I have been to Japan twice, before I went I didn't know I wanted to live there! But now I do!

Anyway, I'll stop rambling and try to shorten my posts in the future!

Joe

 

[Emoni]

I have a name, you know..
Internet > going outside.
Josh

Not every reference relates to you. Hard to believe, I know, but it is true.

Thing is Japanophiles in Japan, that have been there a while, actually know a lot of facts based on personal experience, so no one can really say anything against them. Also there are a lot less of them in Japan, than on the internet, lol. The only really obsessive person I've met in Japan had only been there a short time, I just told him to enjoy it while he's there. Didn't seem fair to burst his bubble so soon after he landed, lol.

I saw a wide range of people in Japan, but in regards to the problematic ones they only seemed to learn what would allow them to cause MORE trouble. It was as if they had a filter system that would remove any thing that didn't fit their fantasy (broad term here), and allowed anything else in that would amplify or justify it. I'm not just talking about anime nerds here, I'm talking about people who are going to Japan looking to get drunk, have fun, sleep with any number of ****** around, and leave a wake of trouble before they finally are shunned. Probably one of the most dangerous types of people to be around in Japan are those who have a fantasy of the country in their mind, and go their simply to have a good time at any cost. This goes for both men AND women (just want to make that clear). I honestly feel that Japan needs to be a lot stricter about what it allows from study abroad students after things I saw happen. I also understand where some negative stereotypes tend to come from now as well.

Assault, date rape, punching holes in restaurant walls, sexual assault, failing every single course you are taking (IN JAPAN!)... in "my opinion" these should all get you kicked out of any program and deported. Of course, I don't believe any of this was reported to the police or any charges brought forth so I expect this had a lot to do with why nothing was done. It seemed once the police got involved (especially in regards to drugs) the student was deported that night. I guess American law isn't any more crazy.

 

[ghettocities]

Assault, date rape, punching holes in restaurant walls, sexual assault, failing every single course you are taking (IN JAPAN!)... in "my opinion" these should all get you kicked out of any program and deported.

You probably only feel this way towards these "obsessed maniacs" because you've had something personally happen to you, where it be a life without friends, or you aren't caucasian, or you'll never get a raise at work or something that personally effected your way of life and here Japan is, you know, it's beautiful there, everyone wants to be your friend, girls there are what you want, but these same people who stepped on your shoes for most of or your whole life are over there now ruining your last chance.

You yourself said you'd "flying kick" them, but for what? For not caring about you and not treating you with respect?

Well I respect you Emoni, I know times must be hard in California where every other commercial on television is for bail bonds (to get people out of jail and in debt,) but I'm here for you, if you ever want to talk about people that are making you upset, just send me a PM, I'll be your friend, don't worry.


Josh

 

[Ewok85]

Is it ok to be a little disgusted when people take a look at (or choose to ignore) the reality of a country or culture, then consider "hot guys" or "cute girls" the biggest redeeming factor?

To me, it seems that these people are the most likely to suffer breakdowns and depression (as I have witnessed this firsthand). When the fantasy collapses upon itself and the honeymoon period ends, where does that leave the dream of Japan?

These two paragraphs have allot in common. I know quite a few people fresh out of high school or university, who love anime and have decided to come to Japan. Not being able to speak any usable Japanese, and having no prior work experience except night shifts at McDonalds, they go into teaching English, realise the harsh realities of working "9 to 5" and paying your way through life.

Its a 3 stage progression, and not everyone goes through all 3 - some leave early, usually at stage 2.
1) Everything is wonderful
2) Everything sucks
3) Everything is alright I guess

Theres a stage 4 which is reserved for long, long term expats, but I still can't work out what it is...

 

[nice gaijin]

You probably only feel this way towards these "obsessed maniacs" because you've had something personally happen to you, where it be a life without friends, or you aren't caucasian, or you'll never get a raise at work or something that personally effected your way of life and here Japan is, you know, it's beautiful there, everyone wants to be your friend, girls there are what you want, but these same people who stepped on your shoes for most of or your whole life are over there now ruining your last chance.
You yourself said you'd "flying kick" them, but for what? For not caring about you and not treating you with respect?
Well I respect you Emoni, I know times must be hard in California where every other commercial on television is for bail bonds (to get people out of jail and in debt,) but I'm here for you, if you ever want to talk about people that are making you upset, just send me a PM, I'll be your friend, don't worry.
Josh

As a personal friend of emoni, originally from California, and currently residing in Japan, I can vouch that absolutely NONE of what you just said was true.

 

[ghettocities]

As a personal friend of emoni, originally from California, and currently residing in Japan, I can vouch that absolutely NONE of what you just said was true.

I wasen't saying any of that was true! I was saying if he had a problem with all these maniacs and he had nobody to befriend, I'd be there for him.

I spent some time in Irvine, California, I'm sure he is living a nice life.


Josh

 

[Emoni]

You yourself said you'd "flying kick" them, but for what? For not caring about you and not treating you with respect?
Well I respect you Emoni, I know times must be hard in California where every other commercial on television is for bail bonds (to get people out of jail and in debt,) but I'm here for you, if you ever want to talk about people that are making you upset, just send me a PM, I'll be your friend, don't worry.
Josh

What on earth are you talking about? Just quit trolling the boards and flaming, and try adding something valuable to the conversation for once. I'm not going to even reply to this garbage. It's the moderator's job to put up with this.

1) Everything is wonderful
2) Everything sucks
3) Everything is alright I guess
Theres a stage 4 which is reserved for long, long term expats, but I still can't work out what it is...

I've heard of the "stage theory" as well, but it really seems to vary by person to person. At least in regards to how severe the stages are. I saw a few students who literally went through these stages, and others who got stuck on stage 2 (like you mentioned) and then there were those who really didn't seem to follow any sort of pattern. If there is a FOURTH stage it would be adjusting after you return and evaluating everything in your mind. I didn't really follow these stages when I went, however before I left, I met up with a lady who had done what I did, traveled around, had a great time, and now loved Japan and taught English. She just naturally seemed to do well. However, she warned me that coming back would be difficult and I would be running into reverse-culture shock. I had not even thought of that, but as soon as I came back, I knew she was right.

It took over a month to feel comfortable back in America again. This is not something I expected at all, and might be why it took so long. Everything had a weird feeling of discomfort about it, I wasn't quite sure what to do with myself since I had gotten into my routine in Japan, my tastes had changed a little so certain food just wasn't good anymore and I was missing miso like crazy. Eventually I adjusted back, but it was not something I expected at all. There truly does seem to be as my Japanese teacher says, "An American mode, and Japanese mode" that you have to consider and switch between to deal with things that come your way in each country. Then again, maybe I was just too stressed and overwhelmed in Japan all the time to notice anything when I first arrived in regards to culture shock.

 

[ghettocities]

What on earth are you talking about? Just quit trolling the boards and flaming, and try adding something valuable to the conversation for once. I'm not going to even reply to this garbage. It's the moderator's job to put up with this.

I'm sorry, I was just trying to be a friend. You know, you sound like you had built-up anger towards others and I'm all about holding up a sign that says free hugs.


Josh