Should we boycott the Beijing Olympics 2008

[Sarapva]

Ideally, I do wish these games were boycotted by nations unless real evidence of certain changes within China was evident. Realistically, though, there are few nations left able to take the moral high ground here (why did the US and other countries boycott the 1980 games - oh yes, because of an illegal invasion of Afghanistan!!)

I find it all quite sickening, and though my country cannot boycott the games, I won't find it palatable to watch them myself.

The latest news about China's preparation for the games:

Olympics clean up Chinese style: Inside Beijing's shocking death camp for cats

I hadn't thought much about boycotting the Olympics in China, but now that I think about it, it would be a good time for other countries to let it be known what they think about China's policies. Boycotting would be the strongest message. But how is this done? Wouldn't the athletes themselves have to boycott it?

I read the link, Mos, about how Bejing is rounding up cats, saying they're diseased, when they're really just trying to "clean up" the streets for Olympic visitors. They're also shutting down certain industries for a time to clear the pollution and letting people drive their cars only 3 days a week for the same reason.

This reminds me of the British comedy "Keeping Up Appearances", where the effort of trying to appear "polished" usually has the opposite effect. It's funny in the program when one person is doing this, but for a whole city to do it is very strange. What are Bejing's intentions for after the Olympics? To go back to polluting and not caring what the city streets look like?

 

[Davey]

I'm pretty sure that most of you have already heard about it, and it really makes this topic a very interesting one:

Tibetans killed in China protest

AT least seven Tibetans were killed as police opened fire overnight on an anti-China protest in the south-west of the country, two activist groups said, citing witness reports.

The attack took place in Ngawa town in Sichuan province - which borders Tibet and has a large ethnic Tibetan population - after a protest by monks and lay people, witnesses and the campaign groups said.

"The protest was violently broken up. Police fired into the crowd. There are seven deaths," Kate Saunders, from the International Campaign for Tibet, said, citing reports from an eyewitness.

Read all

Japan urges China to make sure Tibet crackdown doesn't affect Olympics

TAKAMATSU ﾂ― Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura urged China on Sunday to ensure that the crackdown in Tibet does not cause further casualties and that developments do not affect the Beijing Olympics in August. Japan "is extremely concerned and keeping a close watch on developments," Komura told reporters after attending a public forum in Takamatsu, Kagawa Prefecture, in western Japan. "I would like to know clearly what the situation is and the facts behind what has happened."


"I hope all parties involved will deal with this calmly and ensure that the number of those killed and injured does not worsen any further," he said. "I ask that the Chinese government give thorough consideration to this so that the Olympics will not be affected." The minister said Japan has conveyed its concerns to China, as well as a request to ensure Japanese nationals in the area receive adequate protection.

Source

And then the message from my hero:

Dalai Lama: China causing 'cultural genocide'

(CNN) -- The Dalai Lama on Sunday called for an international probe of China's treatment of Tibet, which he said is causing "cultural genocide" of his people.


The exiled spiritual leader of Tibet spoke at a news conference Sunday in Dharamsala, India, two days after violent clashes between pro-autonomy demonstrators and Chinese security forces in Lhasa, the Tibetan capital.

A spokesman for the self-declared Tibetan exile government said it has confirmed at least 80 deaths in Friday's violence and that protests were continuing outside the capital Sunday, further undermining China's hopes of a smooth run-up to the 2008 Beijing Olympics...

...The Dalai Lama said China, as the world's most populous nation, deserves to host the Olympics but it must look seriously at repairing its human rights record "in order to be a good host."
Read all

 

[FrostPixie]

I doubt that I will be watching the Olympics this year. I'll wait until 2012. My decision will be made easy anyway, since I will be home for the summer and my mother is refusing to watch it.

I read about the protests in Tibet and how the Chinese government have been warned to handle the aftermath carefully. Apparantly Richard Gere has called for a boycott of the Olympics should they mishandle it and I agree.
I think it's good in a way that China are hosting the Olympics because it means that when stories like this hit, they become more publicised than they would have been had London won the 2008 bid instead. As tragic as these stories are, hopefully it will open the eyes of at least a few more people.

What really annoyed me, however, was when I read that China was blaming the Dalai Lama for the protests. It's almost as if they can't bring themselves to accept that there is even a minute possibility of the Tibetan people being unhappy.

 

[Arabianbarbie]

Olympics is showdown using sports let it be ,and set aside politics at least for a month.
Looking forward which country will bag the most Gold!!!

 

[Han Chan]

Due to the supression of the tibetans and contiued lack of human rights in China we should boycott. Just like the free world should have boycotted the Berlin 1936 summer olympic:

"For two weeks in August 1936, Adolf Hitler's Nazi dictatorship camouflaged its racist, militaristic character while hosting the Summer Olympics. Softpedaling its antisemitic agenda and plans for territorial expansion, the regime exploited the Games to bedazzle many foreign spectators and journalists with an image of a peaceful, tolerant Germany. Having rejected a proposed boycott of the 1936 Olympics, the United States and other western democracies missed the opportunity to take a stand that--some observers at the time claimed--might have given Hitler pause and bolstered international resistance to Nazi tyranny. With the conclusion of the Games, Germany's expansionist policies and the persecution of Jews and other "enemies of the state" accelerated, culminating in World War II and the Holocaust".

The Nazi Olympics - 1936 Berlin Olympic Games

 

[Goldiegirl]

I was reading that France was thinking about boycotting the opening ceremonies. I think if you want to actually make a statement don't go at all.

 

[Anatoli]

Visiting both Chinese and Japanese forums and learning both cultures/languages, I keep getting surprised about how brainwashed are both groups against each other.

Read here a bit more about the events in Lhasa, Tibet. This discussion is from Chinese forums.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?t=22837&page=9

NY Times:

Less than five months before the opening of the Olympics, Beijing is acutely worried about an international reaction and is arguing that its response to the protests has been reasonable. Qiangba Puncog, the taciturn chairman of Tibt's government, said during a hurriedly convened news conference on Monday that the military police and other officers were not carrying lethal weapons and had not fired a single shot ― despite multiple witnesses reporting gunshots.

"What democratic country in the world could tolerate this violent behavior?" Mr. Puncog asked, framing the crisis as a law-and-order issue.

Why does the West immediately support the violence in Tibet, despite the way China handles this crisis? Imagine for a minute this mutiny happens in your country! Separatisms is not encouraged in any country. Even Dalai-Lama criticised the violence in Tibet and encouraged people to take part in the Olympics.

As for other problems, which country doesn't have them? Should we boycott America for the war in Iraq?

Dutch Baka, please stop this anti-Chinese propaganda!

 

[Davey]

Dutch Baka, please stop this anti-Chinese propaganda!

It's not propaganda, it's something that is worth discussing in my opinion.

I do not hate China, not at all and I would love to visit it! But I do want other people their opinion about this matter... I will not boycot it myself.. I love the olympics and hope that it will bring many good things for China...

But it's also the time that the International communitee do something about these kinds of things.

 

[Anatoli]

Thanks for this and my apologies, then I ranted in the wrong direction. Please visit Chinese-forums too. You may get the answers first hand and get the Chinese opinions about their affairs. Like in this forum, English speaking forums about Asian countries have more English speakers than native Asians, though.

Due to the supression of the tibetans and contiued lack of human rights in China we should boycott. Just like the free world should have boycotted the Berlin 1936 summer olympic:
The Nazi Olympics - 1936 Berlin Olympic Games

Comparing China with Nazi Germany is inappropriate, Han Chan.

BTW, I am not Chinese.

 

[Han Chan]

Why does the West immediately support the violence in Tibet, despite the way China handles this crisis? Imagine for a minute this mutiny happens in your country! Separatisms is not encouraged in any country.

Tibet used to be a peacefull seperate kingdom untill the Chinese occupied the country.

One of the arguments for the Beijing Olympics was that it would help bringing China in line with the rest of the world regarding issues like minority rights and respect of human rights - so far there have been no progress on these issues.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/asia-and-pacific/east-asia/china

 

[Anatoli]

One of the arguments for the Beijing Olympics was that it would help bringing China in line with the rest of the world regarding issues like minority rights and respect of human rights - so far there have been no progress on these issues.

Whose arguments? Olympic games is not a political event.

 

[tokapi]

Tibet used to be a peacefull seperate kingdom untill the Chinese occupied the country.

So was Ryukyus Kingdom ( Okianawa ) or Hawaii until Japan or US annexed the islands ....

 

[Han Chan]

Whose arguments? Olympic games is not a political event.

Many political leaders and IOC members have tried to give the impression that holding the Olympics in Beijing would help promote human rights in China. This is a qoute from IOCs own web site:

Beijing Olympics will promote China's human rights causes
Updated：2007-10-19
(BEIJING, October 19) -- The Olympic preparations have promoted and will continue to promote human rights causes in China, said Liu Jingmin, vice mayor of Beijing and executive vice president of the Beijing Organizing Committee for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad (BOCOG), on Friday.
He made the remarks in response to a question from an AFP journalist.
President Hu Jintao made an important statement on the construction of the democratic political system and the development of human rights causes in China in his report to the 17th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, Liu said, adding that on July 13, 2001, Beijing stated in its Olympic bid that the Olympics would greatly enhance China's economic, social and cultural development, including the development of human rights causes.
Explaining how the Olympics have already contributed to the development of human rights causes, Liu said in preparing for the event, people's living conditions have been upgraded and their living environment has improved remarkably. BOCOG invited people of various social sectors to take part in the selection of the Olympic emblem, mascots and slogan and has widely sought the opinions of the public on the design of Olympic venues.
Liu also noted that BOCOG conducts a comprehensive social survey almost every six months to modify and improve its preparatory work according to the wishes and ideas of the people. The publication of the regulations on foreign media coverage of the Beijing Olympic Games and the preparatory period proved that Beijing is fulfilling the promise it made in its Olympic bid, Liu added.
"The Olympic preparatory work is progressing concurrently with China's development, and in the process, the democracy and human rights of the people will be vigorously enhanced and safeguarded," he said.

http://en.beijing2008.cn/news/official/preparation/n214180251.shtml

Reporters Without Borders: RSF

Facebook boycott campaign: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2210428260

 

[SushiShin]

I voted :

No, it will not help anyway

Because what's the point to do a boycot, China is a booming empire and it will never think things over, they see Tibet as their own and believe me they will do everything to keep it theirs. And China never aired the workers who built the Stadion for the Games, it's a shame because people died by building that! It is indeed a pity but meaningless thing to boycott the Olympics.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I am going to have nothing to do with the Beijing Olympics- IMHO China has not cleaned up its act convincingly enough in preparation for them and its recent treatment of the Tibetans wins no respect from me.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I voted :
Because what's the point to do a boycot, China is a booming empire and it will never think things over, they see Tibet as their own and believe me they will do everything to keep it theirs. And China never aired the workers who built the Stadion for the Games, it's a shame because people died by building that! It is indeed a pity but meaningless thing to boycott the Olympics.

I think you are viewing this from the wrong perspective- changing something is not the only point of boycotting it- boycotting something can be just as meaningful in the sense of making how you strongly feel about something clear in your actions, and as the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words. If you really pity the lives that have been lost or livelihoods that have been destroyed in this Olympic program, then you should boycott the Olympics to show that you feel strongly about this- otherwise you will just be a hypocrit. You might not change the course of history, but you'll effect the opinions of others that know you are boycotting the Olympics, and this at the very least should be a meaningful thing .

 

[SushiShin]

I think you are viewing this from the wrong perspective- changing something is not the only point of boycotting it- boycotting something can be just as meaningful in the sense of making how you strongly feel about something clear in your actions, and as the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words. If you really pity the lives that have been lost or livelihoods that have been destroyed in this Olympic program, then you should boycott the Olympics to show that you feel strongly about this- otherwise you will just be a hypocrit. You might not change the course of history, but you'll effect the opinions of others that know you are boycotting the Olympics, and this at the very least should be a meaningful thing .

I can't admit that you are deeply right, that's why I respect your opinion, but isn't there enough bloodshed in the world? Tibet must be free indeed and China must stop the slavery! But if we all go on a strike do you really think that China will listen to our call?☝

China is a strange country with unusual habits but do we solve anything by boycotting something that has allready been knowed for ages: The Olympics?

These are just the Olympic games, only this time it has been set in the wrong country, because people GIVE their LIVES for the love of the games.

I'll go with you all on a strike, but keep one thing in mind, never or never will the Chinese governement declare Tibet to be independent.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

China has a legitimate claim to Tibet if I have understood the history of the region as well as China's side of the argument correctly. At the very least, they have as much right to demand international privacy in the matter to the same degree that any other country would want to personally handle its own domestic problems.

But there are a few inconsistencies which I think contribute to the current controversy.

1) Comparing China's current treatment of the process to Western countries and their colonial past is a moot point, as this is happening NOW and not in the past. Advocates of the current Chinese policies on Tibet are comparing apples and oranges if/when they invoke this kind of logic.

2) The displeasure with Chinese policy extends beyond their handling of the Tibetan issue and this has fueled discontent with their handling of the Tibetan issue moreso than the Tibetan issue itself. Here I mean their treatment of the environment, civil liberties & human rights, health and safety re: exported products, and protectionism re: their currency. Many different groups have many different reasons to target China. When lead found its way into children's toys and it was found that Chinese toothpaste could potentially kill, however, regular people in the West started to dislike China as well.

3) The Olympics is a huge media event and China has shot herself in the foot in hoping that they'd be left alone by the media at this very moment. They simply cannot hope to be considered by the fully developed nations of the world as 'free' if they are behaving secretively and heavy-handedly. It's a catch-22; if they didn't want to be bothered about Tibet then that should have been resolved prior to their bid for the Olympics. Saying that we should all 'stay out of it' doesn't really fly because, well, China asked for the attention, quite explicitly in fact.

I voted for boycotting by way of not watching it on TV, because realistically its the most I can hope to accomplish as an individual at the moment.

Incidentally, there is talk of the Dalai Lama being supported by the CIA and that probably doesn't help things at all. Whether he accepts the CIA's help or not I do not know, but in a Spy vs. Spy world, if the enemy of your enemy is your friend, you do what you have to do foreign-policy wise, even if that means the US funneling money to a high-profile spiritual leader. I only put this out there in case someone has more concrete information on the matter.

There was also talk of an intercepted transmisson by the British that proved undercover PRC operatives incited the current violence. So it's unclear as to whether China is as innocent in all this as some claim. This actually happened in Canada during the last SPP meetings in Quebec (plainclothes cops tried to incite otherwise peaceful protestors into violent acts), so I would not put such tactics past the PRC. Don't forget, the PRC has vested interests in the area because the holy mountains are rich with precious metals.

It's really a tangled web, but IMHO the situation is well past its due date for resolution because the new generation of Tibetans are increasingly disillusioned unlike those older individuals who have endured and accepted the Dalai Lama's non-violence methods. These are young, unemployed people who don't have time for sit-ins and marches.

 

[MadamePapillon]

It's really a tangled web, but IMHO the situation is well past its due date for resolution because the new generation of Tibetans are increasingly disillusioned unlike those older individuals who have endured and accepted the Dalai Lama's non-violence methods. These are young, unemployed people who don't have time for sit-ins and marches.

It's not even that they don't have the time...I think it's more that they've seen that the Chinese government doesn't listen to quiet, peaceful protests. Here in the west if a large enough group of people get together and march on, say, Parliament Hill, in a civil peaceful protest they will often be heard. Their demands might not be met but they've made themselves known and brought an issue to light.

Not so in China. Protest, peaceful or not, will either be outright ignored or (more often) met with threats or violence. It is illegal, in China, to actually hold a protest without the permission of the government so obviously any protest involving the government itself is criminal. By protesting for their right to be a free country Tibet is, technically, breaking the law and as such, the Chinese government wouldn't hear their demands, much less meet them because it would be viewed as giving into the demands of lawbreakers and a sure sign (in their view) of weakness.

It's impossible to win in a situation like that, it is practically inevitable that younger Tibetans would resort to violence in frustration at their lack of options. Whether they write letters, march, sit in, or even riot...it makes no difference because the government sees it all in the same light: a challenge to their authority.

At first it looked like China was trying to truly clean up their act and move forward in their human rights policies but after all this it seems China took a step forward only to take two steps back. I wont be watching the Olympics on TV this year either.

 

[Mars Man]

Let's please be sure not to stray too far from the matter of the OP. While what has happened there will be of consideration towards whether the Olympics might boycotted, it would not be in the scope of the immediate theme to go into detail about that particular event in itself.

What has been highlighted above, should be enough of that. Thanks for helping out by letting that now be as is. MM

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Apparently, the Olympics are worsening human rights rather than improving them;

"China's human rights record is getting worse, not better, because of the Beijing Olympics, a rights group says.

According to Amnesty International, China is clamping down on dissent in a bid to portray a stable and harmonious image ahead of the Games in August.

It urged the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and world leaders to speak out against abuses, including China's handling of protests in Tibet.

US President George W Bush is facing calls to boycott the Games' opening";

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Olympics 'worsening China rights'

Not so in China. Protest, peaceful or not, will either be outright ignored or (more often) met with threats or violence. It is illegal, in China, to actually hold a protest without the permission of the government so obviously any protest involving the government itself is criminal. By protesting for their right to be a free country Tibet is, technically, breaking the law and as such, the Chinese government wouldn't hear their demands, much less meet them because it would be viewed as giving into the demands of lawbreakers and a sure sign (in their view) of weakness.
It's impossible to win in a situation like that, it is practically inevitable that younger Tibetans would resort to violence in frustration at their lack of options. Whether they write letters, march, sit in, or even riot...it makes no difference because the government sees it all in the same light: a challenge to their authority.

Thats why there's talk of Tibetans organizing large scale suicide squads against the Chinese, although its only talk so far;

"China claims that Tibetan "independence forces" are planning to launch suicide attacks as part of a wider uprising to establish an independent Tibet.

Public Security Ministry spokesman Wu Heping said these suicide squads "fear neither bloodshed nor sacrifice".

Mr Wu did not produce any evidence to back up the claims - but said China would release proof later";

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | China makes 'suicide squad' claim

Although to be honest i think its probably just propaganda for the Chinese to try and convince their soldiers its necessary to use violent tactics on Tibetans.

 

[Han Chan]

Stopping the Olympic Torch Relay

Wikipedia:

The modern torch relay was introduced by Joseph Goebbels, as part of an effort to turn the games into a glorification of the Third Reich.

Let's stop that torch!

 

[MadamePapillon]

I've never seen anything like this before... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_sp_ol/olympic_torch

What a gong show this Olympics is becoming.

 

[Half-n-Half]

I really don't see how boycotting the Olympics is going to end China's bad human rights record. It'd take a lot more than boycotting the Olympics to get China to change its mind.

However, if the pollution is as bad as everyone says it is, then it becomes an issue of the health of our athletes. As an athlete myself, I would want to participate in an international game of peace like this, but at one point you have to worry whether or not you will end up hurting yourself.

Wikipedia:
Let's stop that torch!

I doubt the majority of people today see it as a glorification of the Third Reich. Continuing the torch relay doesn't glorify the Third Reich in any way. It may have started out like that, but it certainly isn't like that today.

 

[Revenant]

I'll be watching the olympics, and I hope that Canada particpates in all the ceremonies. A boycott would do little to change Chinese policies. When the people of China have had enough, or the negative economic impact of not being transparent to foreign investors can't be ignored, then China will consider change. It seems that current Chinese leaders can't imagine using any other techniques for solving discontent, and that their methods of handling discontent will only aggravate the discontent. I imagine China will have to change someday, and perhaps a new generation of leaders not brought up in a Soviet-style communist education system will make bringing about that change easier.