Dream Time said:the contents in the new revisionist Japanese history textbook are extremely misleading
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisitext_index.html
People who can't tell government-approved textbooks from "for dummies" ones might not have ever thought about checking out the list.Maciamo said:One of them was 早わかり日本史, which is described as a best-seller, but I don't know if it is among the approved textbooks used at school.
The world history text I referred to earlier puts the course of events very ambiguously, like this :Dream Time said:the contents in the new revisionist Japanese history textbook are extremely misleading
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisitext_index.html
for example
Chapter 5, page 270, Sino-Japanese war
1937(昭和12)年7月7日夜,北京郊外の盧溝橋で,演 習していた日本軍に向けて何者かが発砲する事件がおこ った。翌朝には,中国の国民党軍との間で戦闘状態にな った(盧溝橋事件)。現地解決がはかられたが,やがて 日本側も大規模な派兵を命じ,国民党政府もただちに動 員令を発した。以後8年間にわたって日中戦争が継続し た。
translation: on the night of July 7th 1937, at the Lugou Bridge in Beijing. Someone fired shots at the Japanese army. The next morning, the Japanese army was in war with the Chinese Nationalist army. (Lugou Bridge Incident) Although they wanted to solve the matter at the place, Japan dispatched troops on a large scale. The Nationalist government immediately issued the mobilization order. Hereafter entered the 8-year long Sino-Japanese war.
the truth:
the Japanese army was illegally stationing in China. Of course, the Chinese army had to defend the land. Also, before the July 7th of 1937, the Japanese soldiers had fired guns. there is no evidence to indicate the Chinese soldiers fired guns first.
It's available now (see attachment)名無し said:Hope this thread to grow toward whatever directions, the English translation of the one by Fusosha is coming soon too.
source: Wikipedia "Nanjing Massacre" (This image has been released into the public domain by the copyright holder, its copyright has expired, or it is ineligible for copyright. This applies worldwide.)Dream Time said:makes any Japanese history textbook mention about the 'hundred people cut'?
The Japanese soldiers turned killing into a sport. The contest was to determine who could kill the fastest and be the first to reach one hundred people.
this was actually was the first-page headline news of Yomiuri Daily newspaper, there is an image of this news report somewhere on the internet, I lost the link, and I don't want to look at the picture again.
Tim33 said:They do tend to gloss over it however.
I learnt about world war 2 in my history lessons, however we mainly focused on one area rather then every bit of the war. We mainly focused on the bombing raids taken place over london, rationing and some about concentration camps.
However this was not the whole of world war 2 and schools can not possibly cover the whole area of world war 2, war areas schools focus on is up to the Japanese government and teachers not the chinese government.
In English history classes we never learnt about the Dresden incident.
It is just some people do not blindly believe everything CCP says. The link mentioned in a post before has sentences that read,lexico said:That is another bad attempt at falsifying, wouldn't you agree?Dream Time said:makes any Japanese history textbook mention about the 'hundred people cut'?
Understandably, highly questionable "facts" like that are not on the textbooks.Wakabayashi, for instance, has recently published a paper on the competition between two Japanese officers to see who could first kill (decapitate) a hundred Chinese with their swords (Wakabayashi 2000). This competition has become a major part of Nanjing's myth in both the English and Chinese language literature but is clearly false. Wakabayashi's paper is the best piece of academic research on this competition in any language and demonstrates the advantages of having professional historians outside Japan research and publish on Nanjing.
mad pierrot said:Let's not judge all the people of Japan for the inadequacies of their school books. Instead, let's find out who's writing them and criticize them!
名無し said:
http://www3.la.psu.edu/textbooks/MJ/war_views.htmThe Nanjing Massacre and smaller-scale events like it raise troubling issues about human behaviour at its worst, and, understandably, many in Japan would tend to shy away from a close examination of it. But many Japanese scholars have risen to the challenge of confronting these difficult issues. As a result, our understanding of the Nanjing Massacre and related events continues to evolve. For example, one incident often cited by Honda and other early researchers as symbolic of the massacre as a whole--an alleged 100-man killing contest between two Japanese officers--we now know almost certainly did not happen. (See Wakabayashi, "The Nanking 100-Man Killing Contest Debate: War Guilt Amid Fabricated Illusions, 1971-75," The Journal of Japanese Studies, 26:2 [Summer 2000], pp. 307-340.) While this particular finding might encourage the members of the denial faction, the sheer quantity, wide variety and high quality of evidence available today attest to the massacre make it more difficult than ever for anyone with intellectual integrity to dismiss or minimize it.
sabro said:Lexico: I got about half way through the links- It seems like you have to do a lot of mental gymanastics to believe that nothing happened in Nanking:
Japanese Views of the Second Sino-Japanese War--
Through the lens of the Nanjing Massacre and Events Connected with It
I couldn't keep going- the material was just too overwhelming. Account after account of inhumanity and barbarism, the numbers and photos- the evidence seems insurmountable. I am surprised so many revisionists try to deny what happened there.
http://www.japan-press.co.jp/2433/wwii3.htmlhttp://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200505/kt2005052622492411990.htmhttp://english.sina.com/china/1/2005/0526/32439.htmlYes, absolutely ! To pour in some of the best scholars and their research, what could be better for now ?bossel said:What about the new joint Chinese/Korean/Japanese textbook ? Will it help ?
From the starting edition in Japan, only numbering 20000, probably not much (the editions in China are expected to reach millions). But I think, it's a beginning.
Yes, and I think that's how academic people deal with uncertainties, not to maliciously muddy the waters, but to leave breathing room for more objective studies. We might have some people object, but I'm sure they too can be gracious enough because either truth will come out eventually or it can never be known beyond doubt.Interesting that the historians could not come to final conclusions on some issues. Eg. regarding Nanjing they simply included both the number of 200,000 & of 340,000. Probably the easiest way.
Japan Press Weekly said:Obinata Sumio, professor at Waseda University, said, "Sharing a common view on East Asian history should be a requisite for developing a peaceful future for the region. We hope that this book is read by as many students as possible."
...
The committee's project for writing a common history book began in March 2002 following the publication of the "New History Textbook" by the right-wing group called Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform.
Kasahara Tokuji, professor at Tsuru University, said, "The co-editing is the first step for us to overcome our historical views which tend to be biased by national interests. We want to continually revise the book."
Thanks for sharing this amazing news, Bossel ! I fully agree with every remark made in the articles; even better, they plan to continue revising to reflect history with ever increasing accuracy. I only hope that all three governments (and hopefully N.Korea also) endorse the new textbook with enthusiasm and not obstruct/terrorize this well-meant effort for some difference they may find with their home-grown, nationalistic versions. Perhaps it will take several years for the textbook to be adopted in many junior high schools and another 20 years for the shared historical views to become mainstream in the three (4) countries ?Sina English said:focuses on the three countries' modern history, publishers said.
More than 60 pages deal with Japan's invasion of China and the Korean peninsula. It describes Japanese atrocities, including mass sex slavery. The book also calls Japanese citizens both offenders and victims of war.
The book proves that "it is possible to form a common conception of history among the three nations while respecting each country's own conception of history," the scholars who published the work said in a statement.
"We hope our desire for peace and mutual respect, contained in each sentence of this book, can spread through this book," they said.
It is noteworthy that the movement got started in Nanjing Peace Forum in 2002. Perhaps the time will come when Taiwan and China can also peacefully share a common history that tore the two apart. Maybe it's unnecessary; I really don't know how the two groups across the strait feel about it.The Korea Times said:Publication of the textbook entitled ``History That Opens the Future,'' was initiated in March 2002 at an East Asia peace forum on history in Nanjing, China.
I agree, but I also see the danger of watering down such textbooks to the lowest common denominator. In the case of Nanjing, it is simply like that, we have a number of varying estimates.lexico said:Yes, and I think that's how academic people deal with uncertainties, not to maliciously muddy the waters, but to leave breathing room for more objective studies.
Well, I'm no professional historian.bossel said:You're even more optimistic about this than I am, Lexico!
Yes, the books might just have gotten slimmer due to that. I also recall finding most history text books more concentrating on story telling rather than giving a wealth of material to digest and analyze. Both are important, but having only a few pages for each topic is so vastly simplifying and unexciting for the young minds.I agree, but I also see the danger of watering down such textbooks to the lowest common denominator.
That could be another area where historical thinking can be encouraged for the junior high student instead of feeding the authoritative word out of the professional historian's mouth. Give them the facts and evidence, and let them draw a conclusion. Is that too dangerous ? Not having access to key documents and other kinds of evidence while being fed disinformation were the major culprits I think.In the case of Nanjing, it is simply like that, we have a number of varying estimates.
That's very much like putting a disagreeable member on ignore. I hope that nationalist historians be given less credit and cease to be mainstream; there should be a declaration of freedom from extreme propagandist histories.But what about shared history books between Korea & China? I'm afraid that they will simply leave out those parts that one party for nationalistic reasons doesn't like.
Absolutely.It's a good start though, as I said. We will see what comes of it.
lexico said:Please read the following passage that concludes, after accepting the study result of Wakabayashi, "The Nanking 100-Man Killing Contest Debate," that "the sheer quantity, wide variety and high quality of evidence available today that attests to the massacre makes it more difficult than ever for anyone with intellectual integrity to dismiss or minimize it."
http://www.east-asian-history.net/textbooks/MJ/war_views.htmhttp://www.east-asian-history.net/textbooks/MJ/index.htmBBC News said:A Japanese court has rejected a claim that journalists made up the story of a killing competition carried out by Japan's army in China in 1937.
It is a rare legal victory for the critics of Japan's wartime past.
The relatives of two officers, accused of taking part in a race to decapitate Chinese soldiers, had sued for damages, claiming the report was fabricated.
Japan and China dispute the scale of murder, rape and looting during Japan's wartime occupation of parts of China.
As Japan's Imperial Army approached the Chinese city of Nanjing in 1937, war correspondents sent back home morale-boosting reports which were published in national newspapers.
One described the exploits of two officers who were said to have staged a competition to be the first to behead 100 Chinese soldiers.
The two men were later executed by the Chinese government.
'Not proven'
Two years ago, though, their relatives lodged a claim for $330,000 (36m yen) in damages from two newspapers - one, whose forerunner published the story in 1937, and another which carried an article repeating the allegations in 1971.
The families claimed the stories were false because they had not been proved. Now Tokyo's district court has rejected their suit.
The officers had admitted they raced to kill 100 people, the judge said.
Although the original article included some false elements and exaggeration since a final historical assessment of the contest has not been made, it is difficult to say it was fiction, he added.
The journalist who wrote the follow-up article in the 1970s claimed the case had been brought by those trying to deny the Nanjing massacre.
It is an event still disputed by scholars in Japan and China and continues to cause difficulties between the two countries more than half a century after it happened.