Rape Of Nanking

Elgin · 18 Jan 2004

I know some Chinese people and they get so pissed off if someone calls them a Japanese humm I guess this is a reason:

Between December 1937 and March 1938 at least 369,366 Chinese
civilians and prisoners of war were slaughtered by the invading
troops. An estimated 80,000 women and girls were raped; many of
them were then mutilated or murdered.

Thousands of victims were beheaded, burned, bayoneted, buried
alive, or disemboweled.

To this day the Japanese government has refused to apologize for
these and other World War II atrocities, and a significant sector of
Japanese society denies that they took place at all.

evil:

lychos · 18 Jan 2004

scary picture.... i don't know what it is... but it's probably corpes or something

SacredBlue · 18 Jan 2004

Sadly, it's true...Worse happens but I don't have enough stomach to explain it...Every country has it's lil skeletons in the closet, though...

Ewok85 · 18 Jan 2004

Those numbers sound a little lower than what ive heard, but the same thing happened in germany and bosnia and iraq........

bossel · 18 Jan 2004

Actually, the numbers mentioned in post #1 are a bit higher than what is the most widely accepted estimate: 300,000 killed & 20,000 raped.

More info:
Nanjing Massacre and the Tokyo War Crimes Trial

Anyway, not the numbers are the big deal, it's more how the Japanese gouvernment handles this issue regarding the Chinese feelings.

Dream Time · 19 Jan 2004

the Japanese government and people should confess and apologize.

just like the German government apologized for their crime,
they are being forgiven,
Japan should do the same.

I do not really mind when someone calls me a Japanese,
but I will just tell them I am a Chinese,not Japanese.

Matthew C. Perry · 19 Jan 2004

Apologies have been offered for the harm inflicted on China... even by the emperor, if I remember correctly. If the Chinese are waiting for the Japanese to adopt an attitude similar to the one Germany has taken toward the Jews, one of permanent contrition, I think they will wait a very long time.

Musoka · 19 Jan 2004

Wow, I never thought it was like that...I thought it was because of another reason....like in insult towards their race...thx for the info man, appreciated much

~Arigato Gozaimasu *Bows*~

Mashu · 19 Jan 2004

That is what war is. War isn't just the shooting between two sides until one surrenders. It is raping, torture, and pillaging.

And I highly doubt this is the single reason Chinese get pissed of for being mistaken as Japanese. Anyone is usually offended if there nationality is mistaken because it's a big part of that person. Same with age, intelligence, and job.

Ewok85 · 19 Jan 2004

I get mistaken as being English a fair bit, does help that i have an accent (newcastleish). But im not happy being called american.

Matthew C. Perry · 19 Jan 2004

Why? What is your problem with Americans?

Jean-Francois · 19 Jan 2004

Probably because the Americans have too much money. But that's exactly why I like them a lot ( I had done business in the states), especially when they spend their money.

Anyway, I don't think the Japanese government will apologize because the Japanese (including the general public) still believe that they were doing the inferior Asians a favor by trying to control them and unite them into one strong circle to fight off Western colonialism. Most of the Japanese people I met think they're the victims of the WWII. i.e. Tried to help but suffered from the A-bomb.

Timsan · 20 Jan 2004

the a-bomb was the completely just way to go in world war II. it was either that or send in millions of american troops to fight ground battles and risk losing thousands and thousands of allied lives. everyone wanted the war to end and japan was the only thing stopping that from happening.

Matthew C. Perry · 20 Jan 2004

Nuking 100,000+ civilians was "completely just"? Never in the universe I inhabit. That being said, Truman did face some tough choices. I think he should should have held off on both the nukes and the massive assault on Honshu. Japan was no longer an offensive threat at that point, and other options would have presented themselves over the ensuing months. In any case, the first nuke should have been a demonstration over Tokyo Bay.

Timsan · 20 Jan 2004

Dont forget Pearl Harbor and the Japanese intention of basically "taking over the world" and don't forget the statistics of Nanking. Don't argue for the Japanese cause in world war II Perry no matter how much you like Japan or can associate with them the atomic bombings of Japan made the world a far far better place, even though I think the atrocitys were horrific it is all a part of war and it could not have been avoided.

Timsan · 20 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Luc
Between December 1937 and March 1938 at least 369,366 Chinese
civilians and prisoners of war were slaughtered by the invading
troops. An estimated 80,000 women and girls were raped; many of
them were then mutilated or murdered.

Thousands of victims were beheaded, burned, bayoneted, buried
alive, or disemboweled.

evil:

Matthew C. Perry · 20 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Timsan
Dont forget Pearl Harbor and the Japanese intention of basically "taking over the world"

Nonsense. Japan had no interest in or capability to project force beyond East Asia.

and don't forget the statistics of Nanking.

Click to expand...

Irrelevant to the question of whether or not the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki should have been nuked.

the atomic bombings of Japan made the world a far far better place

Click to expand...

The defeat of Japanese militarism was benificial, not the incineration of tens of thousands of civilians, which may well have been avoidable.

even though I think the atrocitys were horrific it is all a part of war and it could not have been avoided.

Click to expand...

Could not have been avoided? No one forced Truman to make the choice that he did. There were many other options available.

Elgin · 20 Jan 2004

"taking over the world"

I'm not a history expert but I though Japan only wanted to get more land in Asia. Not take over the world. If they wanted to it was a little late in the game to start.

Golgo_13 · 20 Jan 2004

Only difference is, any land Japan took over have all been returned.

When is China gonna free Tibet and return their independence?

BTW, I'm sure China didn't take over Tibet without hurting or killing anyone.

Timsan · 20 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Matthew C. Perry
Nonsense. Japan had no interest in or capability to project force beyond East Asia.

Irrelevant to the question of whether or not the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki should have been nuked.

The defeat of Japanese militarism was benificial, not the incineration of tens of thousands of civilians, which may well have been avoidable.

Could not have been avoided? No one forced Truman to make the choice that he did. There were many other options available.

here is a simple reason why the nuking of japan was justifiable: pearl harbor. good game

catriona · 20 Jan 2004

The A-bombs were used for two reasons:
1 - end the war quickly. The allied forces were dealing with a country that would NOT SURRENDER otherwise. The fire bombing of Japanese cities killed many civilians (100,000 in Tokyo I think) and would have continued for a long time. So in a cruel ironic way the use of A-bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved the lives of huge numbers of other Japanese civilians.
2 - there were a small number of people in the US military who wanted to know the effects of the A-bomb on a city and its inhabitants. This is not something people like to talk about and certainly not the main reason. But we shouldn't forget these evil people existed and had some influence on american policy.

The Japanese government should apologize for the atrocities it committed like the rape of Nanking. As for the Japanese themselves, why should they apologize for anything ? If I was German, I would want my government to apologize for WW2 atrocities but I would have nothing to apologize for myself. I wasn't born, my parents weren't born and my grandparents were too young to have anything to do with it. Maybe the problem here is accepting historical truths. I don't know what they teach kids in Japanese schools but it's important they learn about the unpleasant aspects of their country's past.

Matthew C. Perry · 20 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Timsan
here is a simple reason why the nuking of japan was justifiable: pearl harbor. good game

Of course. Why didn't I see that.

Matthew C. Perry · 20 Jan 2004

Originally posted by catriona
The A-bombs were used for two reasons:
1 - end the war quickly. The allied forces were dealing with a country that would NOT SURRENDER otherwise. The fire bombing of Japanese cities killed many civilians (100,000 in Tokyo I think) and would have continued for a long time. So in a cruel ironic way the use of A-bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved the lives of huge numbers of other Japanese civilians.

We can't know for sure that Japan would not have surrendered otherwise. It is quite possible that a demonstration of the A-bomb's power over Tokyo Bay would have been enough to move the Emporer. It should at least have been tried.

bossel · 20 Jan 2004

I completely agree with Matthew regarding the A-bomb.

It's kind of cynical to argue that one war crime (fire-bombing of cities) has been cut short by another war crime (a-bombs on cities). War crimes shouldn't happen in the 1st place.
That Japan committed war crimes itself is absolutely no excuse.

kirei_na_me · 20 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Timsan
the a-bomb was the completely just way to go in world war II. it was either that or send in millions of american troops to fight ground battles and risk losing thousands and thousands of allied lives. everyone wanted the war to end and japan was the only thing stopping that from happening.

Um, so killing thousands of innocent Japanese people was somehow okay? Are American troops and allied troops lives somehow more important? It wasn't like they dropped the bombs on military bases. They dropped them on civilians. Just regular people with jobs and children. People that didn't even want a war.

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