Pro-Japan / Anti-China rant...

Gaki · 9 Aug 2004

After reading more than a few threads about various relations between Japan and China, the general feeling i get from some people on this board is if you are in a love relationship with Japan (i.e Japanophilia) it automatically puts you in line to join the Anti-China club.

What i dont understand is if you're not even Japanese or Chinese how can you be so offended or even understand the various relations between Japan and China.
If China invaded your country maybe i would understand that you dont like China. Otherwise if you're one of the people who are just going to jump onto the "I hate China because i'm a Japanophile" bandwagon then you're just as ignorant as those who come onto here to slag off Japan.

Saria · 11 Aug 2004

I can't diss eather of then & don't wish to. I wish to learn as muh as I can about the world. I knew a few Ja[panese people in my day & a few chinese... wait that makes me sound old.. um well, what I mean is it isn't what race you are or were you are from but how you treat people that makes you a person.

RockLee · 11 Aug 2004

Hmm, Gaki, you make sense...I guess most ppl don't like China because China and Japan don't like each other, and they are (in love) with Japan. But maybe it is because they read many bad things about China, for instance, the TIBET incident...the piece of Rock both Japan and China claim, the football...so it's easy to make up your mind about. Who's the BAD GUY if you favor Japan ne ?

silver angel · 11 Aug 2004

I'm from Canada. I love all countries. eh.

(I agree with you Gaki)

michi · 11 Aug 2004

dude. I'm Canadian by passport, Chinese by ancestry, and I love Japan. w00t for me.

King of Tokyo · 11 Aug 2004

I don't hate China.. But I have a larger interest for Japan (I'm on a Japan Forum Lol).. I don't know where the China-Bashing is going on but I don't support it.

Glenn · 11 Aug 2004

Good points, Gaki. I think that most people would be better served to take incidents on a case by case basis and analyze the merits/demerits of each. I know that I agree with Japan's stance on some issues, and China's on others.

bluecman · 12 Aug 2004

hey guys

hey guys, interesting to see which side is in your favor. but I am really sorry to see that some people base their preference on their limited knowledge. Probably they are from countries favor anti-communism propaganda so, the consequence is that they got vision-limited. Don't take it fussy that I am not pro-japan.

TwistedMac · 13 Aug 2004

OMGWTF! CHNIA sooo ghey what CS FO' LIFE!!11one

-

translation to non-retarded speak: I don't like communism, but my country isn't very anti-communistic(is that a word?) like america. I have a few communist friends, but I can't really see how you can support something that has been proven not to work so many times..

the problem with communism isn't that it's a bad idea.. the basic idea is fantastic!.. it's just that a communist country leaves itself so voulnerable to dictatorship and so far every communist state has been overtaken by a dictator.

Duo · 17 Aug 2004

I Like CHinaaa, china is cool, i've read a lotta of old chinese novels. Ancient Chinese culture is really interesting, maybe even better than japanese culture, ( don't hate me ppl, i said maybe), anyways, the only "beef" i have with China now, is their lack of openess with SARS, and HIV Spreading, and also human rights, and tibet. But nothing personal.

canadian_kor · 17 Aug 2004

TwistedMac said:
the problem with communism isn't that it's a bad idea.. the basic idea is fantastic!..

I disagree, it's a horrible idea. You're basically advocating the punishment of the intelligent, physically fit, hard-working, and good natured people for the benefit of people who aren't so intelligent, physically fit, hard-working, and good natured. Totalitarianism on behalf of the "losers" of society is just as reprehensible as a totalitarianism on behalf of stuck-up rich dudes.

60Yen · 17 Aug 2004

TwistedMac said:
OMGWTF! CHNIA sooo ghey what CS FO' LIFE!!11one

-

translation to non-retarded speak: I don't like communism, but my country isn't very anti-communistic(is that a word?) like america. I have a few communist friends, but I can't really see how you can support something that has been proven not to work so many times...

That's probaly because Sweden is half the way communistic. Socialistic State...

the problem with communism isn't that it's a bad idea.. the basic idea is fantastic!.. it's just that a communist country leaves itself so voulnerable to dictatorship and so far every communist state has been overtaken by a dictator.

Communism plain sucks. Really, it just doesn't work. It's a nice system for dreamers and dictators. It doesn't leave enough room for talent. I know capitalism isn't the best around as well, but a combination of some socialistic and capitalistic ideas work great.

Saria · 18 Aug 2004

umn a queston. isn't part of China comnunist & part of it not? sorry for my total ignorince

bossel · 18 Aug 2004

Saria said:
umn a queston. isn't part of China comnunist & part of it not? sorry for my total ignorince

The PRC (People's Republic of China) is nominally communist, but it's really just a party dictatorship. Taiwan (ROC, Republic of China) is an island that belonged to China until 1949 & is now an independent (though nominally still part of China) democracy.

sima_yi · 23 Aug 2004

Duo said:
I Like CHinaaa, china is cool, i've read a lotta of old chinese novels. Ancient Chinese culture is really interesting, maybe even better than japanese culture, ( don't hate me ppl, i said maybe), anyways, the only "beef" i have with China now, is their lack of openess with SARS, and HIV Spreading, and also human rights, and tibet. But nothing personal.

Are you Chinese 0.0, how could you read 'ancient Chinese novels'........I think if China is not a communist nation, everyone will like it LOlz

another ppl · 31 Aug 2004

Whether communism is bad or not depends on how u define it. Seems to be a lot of misunderstandings abt China n Chinese ppl still.
Whether communism is bad or not depends on how u define it.
It's true that once under some specific historical conditions, ppl were maltreated, which caused a lot of commotion off in society .
If u imagine communism is all abt this. It isn't nice. Communism is bad.
Of course, we don't amuse ourselves by sending scientists to do farmers' jobs or killing students on the main square.

To the best of what I know, communism in China depicts a different picture.
I am not to discuss with the rest of u about which political system is good and which is bad.
But I do expect some of u to look upon the drastic changes of the Chinese society instead of talking about Tiananmen, the men square massacre, Tibet, loser society whenever the topic touches on China.
Society is progressing rapidly.

Totalitarianism is unlikely in China.
In China, high political positions are held by so-called technocrats whose interest is in projects.
To put it straight, we are a nation disposed of making progress.

ps: Taiwan is China! (not nominally, but definitely!)
U don't call it Japan, right?

Saria said:
umn a queston. Isn't part of China communist & part of it not? sorry for my total ignorince

Is it a question abt to what extent China is a communist country?
Or do u mean special zones like Hong Kong and Macao?

The Chinese government says that China is walking a communist path that has Chinese characters.
That means something abt flexibility.

Hong Kong n Macao are democratic.

bossel · 31 Aug 2004

another ppl said:
the society is progressing rapidly.

Luckily!

totalitarianism is unlikely in China.

From M-W:
"Main Entry: to·tal·I ·tar·I ·an
Pronunciation: \ (ˌ)tō-ˌta-lə-ˈter-ē-ən
Function: adjective
Etymology: Italian totalitarian, from totality? totality
1 a : of or relating to centralized control by an autocratic leader or hierarchy : AUTHORITARIAN, DICTATORIAL; especially : DESPOTIC."
Since the CPC has "total" control, the PRC being totalitarian is quite likely.

ps: Taiwan is China! (not nominally, but definitely!)

Right! The Republic of China (but really, only nominally).

u don't call it Japan, right?

Of course not. I call it Taiwan.

it is said by the Chinese government that China is walking a communist path with Chinese characters.
that means something abt flexibility.

That means that China is a communist country without communism.

Hong Kong n Macao are democratic.

Sorry to inform you: this is not the "Humour & Tests" section.

another ppl · 31 Aug 2004

bossel said:
Luckily!

luck only?

bossel said:
From M-W:
"Main Entry: to·tal·i·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: \ (ˌ)tō-ˌta-lə-ˈter-ē-ən
Function: adjective
Etymology: Italian totalitarian, from totalitﾃ? totality
1 a : of or relating to centralized control by an autocratic leader or hierarchy : AUTHORITARIAN, DICTATORIAL; especially : DESPOTIC."
Since the CPC has "total" control, the PRC being totalitarian is quite likely.

wad is meant by "of or relating to centralized control"?
Isn't the definition quite vague in itself?
Democratic societies don't relate to centralized control in the slightest?

anyway, if totalitarian is to be understood as just abt centralized control,
I don't mind u say China is totalitarian.

bossel said:
Right! The Republic of China (but really, only nominally).
Of course not. I call it Taiwan.

Chinese ppl are dedicated to the course of reunification.

bossel said:
That means that China is a communist country without communism.

communism is not more of-communism than not-of-communism.
When China is called a communist country, I interpret it as saying that China is more likely to be communist than countries such as, say, US n UK.

Democratic countries do not practice democracy 100 per cent!

bossel said:
Sorry to inform you: this is not the "Humour & Tests" section.

u mean, I'm getting wrong or what?

bossel · 31 Aug 2004

another ppl said:
luck only?

I mean: Luckily for the rest of the world, there is not only economic but also social progress in China.

wad is meant by "of or relating to centralized control"?
Isn't the definition quite vague in itself?
Democratic societies don't relate to centralized control in the slightest?

You read only half the sentence. You should read the complete "of or relate to centralized control by an autocratic leader or hierarchy". Autocratic means something like "total control/power", that's what the CPC has.

comunism is not more of-communism than not-of-communism.
When China is called a communist country, I interpret it as saying that China is more likely to be communist than countries such as, say, US n UK.

democratic countries do not practice democracy 100 per cent!

I see. It all depends on the definition. But really, I don't see many (if any) of the original communist features as outlined by Marx & Engels in China.

Regarding democracy, well, I wouldn't want to see the original Greek model implemented today.

u mean I'm getting wrong or wad?

I don't know exactly about Macao, but HK democracy is a joke!

another ppl · 31 Aug 2004

bossel said:
I mean: Luckily for the rest of the world, there is economic and social progress in China.

cheer for that.
But ur words give me the impression that as if the world outside China has suffered a lot from China.
Do u think China is much of a threat to the rest of the world?

bossel said:
ou read only half the sentence, you should read the complete "of or relate to centralized control by an autocratic leader or hierarchy". Autocratic means something like "total control/power", that's what the CPC has.

what I want to say at the start is that China is not as terrible a place as some ppl may have thought.
(we don't have fangs, red eyes, horns...)

Total control by CPC is true,
but total control doesn't always give rise to disasters.
To speak what I know, most people in China do not feel uncomfortable with the communist party. They do not see much of enslavement or wad as some outsiders may have expected.

Theoretically, the communist party represents the basic interests of most people, since it is the party of every ordinary person.
N the fact isn't too far away from this.

Furthermore, from what I see, democracy doesn't always ride off total control.
I don't know whether u regard Singapore as a democratic country.
But scandal goes about the Lee Dynasty.

bossel said:
I see. It all depends on the definition. But really, I don't see many (if any) of the original communist features as outlined by Marx & Engels in China.

I never read Marx
but I know what distinguishes the Chinese society from western societies includes the planned economy, censorship of media, supreme power of the centre...
of course, u never call China a democratic country!

bossel said:
I don't know exactly about Macao, but HK democracy is a joke!

supposed to be democratic

bossel · 1 Sep 2004

another ppl said:
but ur words give me the impression that as if the world outside China has suffered a lot from China.
do u think China is much of a threat to the rest of the world?

Except for the Taiwan situation, you mean? Not much. But that particular situation might lead the whole world into the abyss.

what I want to say at the start is that China is not as terrible a place as some ppl may have thought.
(we don't have fangs, red eyes, horns...)

I know. People can actually be very nice. Most of my friends are Chinese.

total control by CPC is true,
but total control doesn't always give rise to disasters.

Not always. Just like Franco didn't really destroy Spain. But the absolute rule is usually much riskier & doesn't really add to the personal freedom of the citizens.

theoretically, the communist party represents the basic interests of most people, since it is the party of every ordinary person.
n the fact isn't too far away from this.

Ahem, I see Chinese reality a bit farther off from theory than you.

furthermore, from what I see, democracy doesn't always ride off total control.
I don't know whether u regard Singapore as a democratic country.
but scandal goes about the Lee Dynasty.

Singapore democracy is a joke, too. You have to distinguish between nominal & real democracy. The former GDR called itself democratic as well (GDR = German Democratic Republic). I suppose, that was the only time the East German communists showed some humour. Oh no! There was a second time: When Ulbricht said, "Nobody intends to build a wall!"

but I know what distinguishes the Chinese society from western societies includes the planned economy, censorship of media, supreme power of the centre...

Except for planned economy, I agree. In some Western European countries, the control is rather tight, too. Although, not so much in planning but in regulating. E.g. workers' or buyers' rights are better protected than in China.

another ppl · 1 Sep 2004

bossel said:
Except for the Taiwan situation, you mean? Not much. But that particular situation might lead the whole world into the abyss.

The US has a lot to do with it..hoho

bossel said:
Except for planned economy, I agree.

the planned economy is shrinking in China, when an open market proves to be more popular.
The government has made continuous changes to relieve its burdens on a planned economy that is not making any profits.
But still, state-owned factories and companies hold some crucial parts of the economy.

bossel said:
In some Western European countries, the control is rather tight, too. Although, not so much in planning but in regulating. E.g. workers' or buyers' rights are better protected than in China.

Are there ppl told what to produce?
Are there targets to fulfil?
Do they allocate resources to their nations in general?

Or u r saying the governments intend to intervene to avoid a likely crisis?

Or u just mean product quality is better controlled, rights of buyers better protected... and so on, which all contribute to the market's maturity, and which do not have much to do with whether an economy is a planned economy or not?

bossel · 1 Sep 2004

another ppl said:
[1]are there ppl told what to produce?
[2]are there tarkets to fulfill?
[3]do they allocate resources of their nations in general?

[4]or u r saying the governments intend to intervene to avoid likely crisis?

[5]or u just mean product quality are better controled, rights of buyers better protected... and so on which all contribute to the maturity of the market, and which do not have much to do with whether an economy is a planned economy or not?

Not much time now, just in short:
1) only to a small degree
2) no 5- or 10- year plans
3) partially
4) that happens
5) that's what I meant, more or less. But, to me, a planned economy should include buyers' & workers' rights. Maybe I should call that the difference between planned & regulated? In Europe the economy is much better regulated, but less planned, then.

another ppl · 1 Sep 2004

bossel said:
Not much time now, just in short:
1) only to a small degree
2) no 5- or 10- year plans
3) partially
4) that happens
5) that's what I meant, more or less. But, to me, a planned economy should include buyers' & workers' rights. Maybe I should call that the difference between planned & regulated? In Europe, the economy is much better regulated, but less planned, then.

Then I'm not surprised.

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