Please teach me how to express wishful thinking!

fixelbrumpf · 25 May 2004

In order to express that you wish something would happen, you tend to use "you ni" at the end of sentences, right? But exactly how do I use it? Isn't there also "ii no ni", and what's the difference between the two? Could someone please give me a few example sentences with "you ni" and "ii no ni"? I'd be eternally grateful.

PaulTB · 25 May 2004

fixelbrumpf said:
In order to express that you wish something would happen, you tend to use "you ni" at the end of sentences, right? But exactly how do I use it? Isn't there also "ii no ni", and what's the difference between the two?

I think you've got "you ni" but I'm not sure you're thinking of "ii no ni" correctly.

"ii no ni" means "even though it (would have been / would be) good to"

I think when it's used for 'wishing' it has the sense of "wouldn't bit be great if ___ but it's probably not going to happen."

e.g. あったらいいのに
If I won (the lottery) it would be great (but it's very unlikely).

Elizabeth · 25 May 2004

Also "you ni" at the end of a sentence or phrase is used for a prospect that you hope or have good reason to expect will actually unfold as planned. "Otagai tanoshii ryokou to narimasu you ni" (Let's try and make this a fun trip together) or "Tanoshii ishuukan to narimasuyouni" (Let's make this a fun week).

The strongest and most literal example of wishful thinking, on the other hand, might be expressed as "XXX....ttara yokatta no ni" (Motto benkyou shitara yokatta no ni ; I wish I had studied more, If only I had studied more....).

Glenn · 25 May 2004

ように is used in prayers a lot; I guess because it is indirect. I think that to use it in an everyday situation would be to at least imply prayer, even though you aren't actually praying. To me it seems like the Japanese equivalent to saying something like "may it go well" in English, and it's used just like Elizabeth said.

Elizabeth · 25 May 2004

That's interesting about prayer, Glenn, I didn't realize that.

A couple more instances it is commonly used :

Let there be peace on earth (平和でありますように)
Get well, hope you're feeling better (元気になるように)

Glenn · 25 May 2004

I was just thinking of a line from "Dragonball Z" that uses this construction.

ベジータ: おまけにフリーザは今ごろドラゴンボールで不老死(？)を手に入れてしまっているはずだ。これでどう考えても勝ちめい(？)はあるまい。会わんように祈るだけだ。

The question marks after the 不老死 and the 勝ちめい mean that I'm not sure exactly what was said. All I know is that 不老死 sounded like ふろうくし, but I couldn't find anything with that pronunciation, so I went with ふろうし and chose those kanji because they seemed to make sense. It's supposed to mean "eternal life." As for 勝ちめい, it seems that めい is a suffix similar to よう or かた, i.e. "a way to V." But it didn't seem to bring up any hits in the dictionary, so I put a question mark behind it.

PaulTB · 25 May 2004

Glenn said:
The question marks after the 不老死 and the 勝ちめい mean that I'm not sure exactly what was said.

勝ち目【かちめ】 chance; odds; (P)

勝ち目はない = To have no chance.

Glenn · 25 May 2004

PaulTB said:
勝ち目【かちめ】 chance; odds; (P)

勝ち目はない = To have no chance.

Ah, no elongated vowel. No wonder I couldn't find anything relevant for that. It sure does sound like めい, but I guess that's just my non-native ears playing tricks on me.

So I guess you don't have a clue about the 不老死, eh? In the Chinese subtitles it was 長生不老的生命, I think. However, that doesn't really help all that much. Anyone have any ideas on this one?

PaulTB · 25 May 2004

Glenn said:
Ah, no elongated vowel. No wonder I couldn't find anything relevant for that. It sure does sound like めい, but I guess that's just my non-native ears playing tricks on me.

Nope, final -e sounds are often enlongated for emphasis.

Glenn said:
So I guess you don't have a clue about the 不老死, eh?

Er, actually I just thought you had it right - meaning immortal (unaging, undying) - although 不老不死 is a more common word.

Elizabeth · 25 May 2004

会わんように祈るだけだ

Oh, I see what you mean now. Not that they are in fact praying, but at least it is a natural fit with the word. Also found in standard New Years greetings "2004があなたにとって、良い年でありますようにお祈っています。"

fixelbrumpf · 27 May 2004

Thanks a lot, guys! I take it in order to wish for things an everyday situation and without sounding like you're praying, you would use the "-tai" form or "hoshii"?

Elizabeth · 27 May 2004

'You ni' is very common as well, only as a statement of hope or desire, not wanting to posess something.

'Let's make this a good trip together' or 'Let's always hope for world peace' is a totally different statement than 'I want us to have a good trip together' or 'I want the world to be peaceful' (usually expressed 'I wish that the world were peaceful', using 希望）。

Glenn · 28 May 2004

PaulTB said:
Nope, final -e sounds are often enlongated for emphasis.

Well, at least it's good to know that I was hearing it right.

PaulTB said:
Er, actually I just thought you had it right - meaning immortal (unaging, undying) - although 不老不死 is a more common word.

Could be; I'll have to listen again. It did sound an awful lot like a く, though. Of course, there was the matter of the なってきれなかった that sounded to me like なってきえなかった, and even after I was told what it was it still sounded like the latter. It's kind of whispered, so I guess that's where I'm having problems picking it up.

Please teach me how to express wishful thinking!

fixelbrumpf

先輩

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Elizabeth

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Elizabeth

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Glenn

一切皆苦

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Elizabeth

先輩

fixelbrumpf

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

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