Please help me translate these scrolls

[robb stout]

Please help me figure out who the artist is and any other details about my scrolls.

 

[Majestic]

Hi Robb,
Is it one scroll or two (or three?). Its hard to tell. The long text in your first post is the same text that is on the scroll on the left in your second post, right? I'm trying to parse it, but its rough going. Hard to tell if its a Japanese poem written in Chinese style, or a Chinese poem.

The signature on the picture on the right hand side of your second post says "Chikuseki", which is the name of an artist

Works by Nagamachi Chikuseki｜Matsumoto Shoeido | Japanese Paintings and Calligraphy

1757〜1806 He was a Nan-ga (南画:the south school of Chinese painting) painter born in Kagawa pref. He respected to Taiga Ikeno(池大雅) and Ayatari Takebe (建部綾足). He specialized in landscape painting. He was one of three major Nan-ga painters in…

www.matsumoto-shoeido.jp

 

[robb stout]

Hi Robb,
Is it one scroll or two (or three?). Its hard to tell. The long text in your first post is the same text that is on the scroll on the left in your second post, right? I'm trying to parse it, but its rough going. Hard to tell if its a Japanese poem written in Chinese style, or a Chinese poem.

The signature on the picture on the right hand side of your second post says "Chikuseki", which is the name of an artist

Works by Nagamachi Chikuseki｜Matsumoto Shoeido | Japanese Paintings and Calligraphy

1757〜1806 He was a Nan-ga (南画:the south school of Chinese painting) painter born in Kagawa pref. He respected to Taiga Ikeno(池大雅) and Ayatari Takebe (建部綾足). He specialized in landscape painting. He was one of three major Nan-ga painters in…

www.matsumoto-shoeido.jp

I'm sorry, there are two scrolls. I knew how I did it would be confusing, but I'm new to this and learning as I go. Please forgive me; I will separate the scrolls with different threads. I really appreciate all the help.

 

[robb stout]

here is the second scroll pics

 

[Majestic]

The artist's name for the second one is definitely Nagamachi Chikuseki. The signature is Chikuseki, then his monogram. After that are his red seals (which also say "Chikuseki").

The first one I am still wrestling with.

 

[robb stout]

Thanks again; your knowledge is impressive. The older scroll came in this box.

 

[Majestic]

I can't pick out enough of the bigger scroll to translate it. It is a genre of landscape painting called sansui-zu (or, shanshui-zu in Chinese).
Shan shui - Wikipedia

The box has a name and a date on it. The name is Tsunakichi, which I think is the artist's name. The date is a Chinese zodiac calendar date: year of the boar (water-stem), which is either 1923, 1863, or other 60-year increments. Judging from the box and the writing, I'd say 1863, or possibly 1803.

 

[Majestic]

Edit: The name on the box should be Tsunayoshi.
The honorific used at the end of Tsunayoshi may indicate that the box once held some piece made by the 3rd Shogun Tokugawa Tsunayoshi .

Tokugawa Tsunayoshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The scroll that is in this picture has no connection to Tsunayoshi, as far a I know.

 

[robb stout]

Edit: The name on the box should be Tsunayoshi.
The honorific used at the end of Tsunayoshi may indicate that the box once held some piece made by the 3rd Shogun Tokugawa Tsunayoshi.

Tokugawa Tsunayoshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The scroll that is in this picture has no connection to Tsunayoshi, as far a I know.

Do you think one of these scrolls may have been held in this box?

 

[Majestic]

No, I don't think so. I think it might have originally held some calligraphy, or maybe some simple ink/landscape image. I don't think Tsunayoshi was an artist who drew pictures of contemporary figures.

 

[Majestic]

These are the kanji I could pick out on your scroll. One or two may be incorrect. Often you search for the whole phrase/poem by picking out a few key words, but so far I have come up with nothing. You might post this on Reddit to see if any of their translators can pick it out. There are some very good readers of calligraphy on the translation subreddits.

 

[robb stout]

These are the kanji I could pick out on your scroll. One or two may be incorrect. Often you search for the whole phrase/poem by picking out a few key words, but so far I have come up with nothing. You might post this on Reddit to see if any of their translators can pick it out. There are some very good readers of calligraphy on the translation subreddits.

THANK YOU,FOR YOUR HELP,I DID POST ON REDDIT,NO LUCK SO FAR

 

[robb stout]

No, I don't think so. I think it might have originally held some calligraphy, or maybe some simple ink/landscape image. I don't think Tsunayoshi was an artist who drew pictures of contemporary figures.

I AGREE,these painting were of his mother,who i guess held the most powerful position a woman could hold at the time,i was thinking since they were of tsunayoshis mother maybe they were delivered in a scroll box.i know nothing of any of this,ive just read abit about it,its pretty interesting stuff,i read the book shogun ,probably my all time favorite book,this is along those lines.

 

[robb stout]

Do you think one of these scrolls may have been held in this box?

View attachment 110724

from what the paragraph reads under the mothers portrait(keisho-in),it says "notice the tokugawa family crest

 

[robb stout]

from what the paragraph reads under the mothers portrait(keisho-in),it says "notice the tokugawa family crest

and being the tokugawa tsunayoshi crest is on box,this is why i came to that conclusion,the other family artifacts are in a museum,if this had a connection it would be neat to see it,added to their family heirlooms

 

[Majestic]

The Tokugawa crest isn't on the box (as far as I know). It just says "Lord Tunayoshi's writing" (or could be interpreted as "drawing"). But none of the scrolls posted have the Tokugawa signature on them. So the box may have contained a calligraphic scroll done by Tsunayoshi at one time, but that scroll has since been separated from the box. Note the name on the box could also be a kind of deception done by a dodgy antiques dealer. The Japanese antiques markets are full of forgeries. The name on the box could be a kind of forgery. So its always best to treat big names with a bit of caution. At any rate, since the box doesn't appear to contain any scroll with any relation to Tokugawa Tsunayoshi, its just a kind of interesting curio.