- 30 Apr 2007
- 1,173
- 84
hmmm
time to start using my dual citizenship!
time to start using my dual citizenship!
New Procedures in Entering Japan for Foreigners
- Thread starter Chipi
- Start date
i dont know if i just imagined this,but don't Japan have troops out in the middle east supporting America?? If so, then they do have reason to fear a foreign terrorist attack.
HAving said that, 'ZOMG!! Terrorism!!!!!' is 2nd place on the list of uncontestable excuses to errode civil liberties and give police draconian powers. About 99% of the time these powers are used not againt terrorists but everyday citizens especially 'political dissidents'. The scenario offered earlier of a tourist getting a tug simply because he visited a premise that was later robbed seems all too real.
End of the day Police departments should only keep records of criminals, the rest of the populace does not concern them
HAving said that, 'ZOMG!! Terrorism!!!!!' is 2nd place on the list of uncontestable excuses to errode civil liberties and give police draconian powers. About 99% of the time these powers are used not againt terrorists but everyday citizens especially 'political dissidents'. The scenario offered earlier of a tourist getting a tug simply because he visited a premise that was later robbed seems all too real.
End of the day Police departments should only keep records of criminals, the rest of the populace does not concern them
Show me the source that the severe criticism by the UN.
Thank you for your input.
About the Bar Asssociation or liberal media, the measure does not affect their job.
If the measure were something like...
More foreign immigraiton lawers in Japan...
Abolishing the infamous kisha club, and more access for foreign media on this issue...
then they would get silent abnormally.
Taiko666
先輩
- 8 May 2006
- 334
- 10
Unfortunately the main article has been deleted
http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/372983
But I can quote him as saying that Japan's fingerprinting law "illustrates something I have been denouncing in my reports for four years. It is the fact that, especially since Sept 11, there has been a process of criminalization of foreigners all over the world"
(I can find no other links. In Japan, matters relating to Japan's xenophobia are hardly ever reported. Outside Japan, they're only occasionally reported, which is good for Japan's international reputation, bad for Japan's foreign residents.)
Whatever statement the UN may have made on combating terrorism, Japan has just used (abused) it to indulge in its fetish of trying to control (read: humiliate & stigmatise) foreigners in Japan as much as possible.
Just his personal opinion, isn't it?
If his opinion were the official UN statement, please ask him to show off his opinon somewhere, preferably in the UN website. I want to do it, but you are the right guy with your English skill.
He should, at least, tackle with the trafic jam problem in NY now.
If the measure were for the gaijin with North Korean gaijin looks, it must be the xenophobia.
Stupid Japanese drug smugglers have been sentenced to death in an Asian country.
Stupid Asian drug smagglers have been arrested in Osaka, and they will be in jail for 10 years or so.
If his opinion were the official UN statement, please ask him to show off his opinon somewhere, preferably in the UN website. I want to do it, but you are the right guy with your English skill.
He should, at least, tackle with the trafic jam problem in NY now.
If the measure were for the gaijin with North Korean gaijin looks, it must be the xenophobia.
Stupid Japanese drug smugglers have been sentenced to death in an Asian country.
Stupid Asian drug smagglers have been arrested in Osaka, and they will be in jail for 10 years or so.
Han Chan
先輩
- 14 Mar 2006
- 444
- 16
I found a copy of the above mentioned article by Googling:
U.N. rapporteur raps Japan's law on fingerprinting foreigners
May 18, 2006
A special U.N. rapporteur on racism on Thursday criticized Japan's new immigration legislation on fingerprinting and photographing all foreign visitors as a process of treating foreigners like criminals.
Doudou Diene, on his last day of a six-day visit to Japan to conduct a follow-up of his report on racism, said at a press conference in Tokyo the immigration bill that just passed the Diet on Wednesday "illustrates something I have been denouncing in my reports for four years. It is the fact that, especially since Sept 11, there has been a process of criminalization of foreigners" all over the world, he added.
- 20 Aug 2003
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- 416
I don't think this alone is a reason for Japan to say they are in jeopardy of terrorist attacks. Japan might think so (haven't heard an official word on this one, and I doubt you'll get one), but how do you account for the fact that only non-Japanese are being fingerprinted and photographed when only Japanese people have performed terrorist acts in Japan?
Japan rightfully should worry about North Koreans entering here, due to the kidnapping, but not all kidnap victims were taken from Japanese soil. Look at the Japanese reporters and HS student who naively went into Baghdad and got caught (thankfully released) in 2004, too:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20040416a1.html
What about the Red Army?
These members attacked overseas (non-Japanese) embassies, so I guess they don't pose a threat to Japan http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070510a1.html
but what about these?
Involved in kidnapping Japanese citizens http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070512a3.html
Involved in hijacking a Paris-Tokyo airlines jet http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20030228b6.html
What about Aum Shinrikyo?
Need I remind you of the sarin gas attack on Japanese soil, caused by Japanse citizens, not foreigners? Just more evidence that not just we non-Japanese are capable of terrorism.
Or, how do you explain the fact that non-Japanese special residents (Koreans and Chinese) are not even given citizenship here, yet they are exempt from such scrutinization? You can't have it both ways. Chinese are often considered (rightly or wrongly) as being sources of crimes in Japan, yet these special Chinese won't get filed, indexed, and photographed. Also, non-Korean and non-Chinese foreign permanent residents (like me) who may have lived here as long or longer than those special residents will still have to wait in line! Totally unfair, don't you think?
Just his opinion. I've never heard the UN does something for the US procedures.
You are just wrong. They just prefer their Korean citizenship.
About the unfairness, you're right. They should be treated equally if they don't like the Japanese citizenship.
Wrong. Did your grand-parents or parents live in Japan and refuse to be naturalised here for more than 60 years?
White Girl
出陣じゃ～！
- 27 Sep 2007
- 28
- 1
I don't really care about procedures, personally. It's all just bureaucracy crap. Whether the person who decided for these regulations is racist or not, who can tell. I can't read their minds, so I won't assume that it is. They might just be copying the U.S., which has a completely retarded immigration system. I think being fingerprinted is kind of fun. It looks all technologically advanced and stuff. They can take my picture if they want too. I'll try to look my cutest so maybe the immigration guy can put it on his wall <3
Han Chan
先輩
- 14 Mar 2006
- 444
- 16
A Special U.N. Rapporteur on Racism is not just anybody - he is a very highranking International UN Civil Servant reporting to the UN General Secretary! When says something it is not merely his personal opinion, he is a diplomat repressenting UN.
Here is a story from when USA started fingerprinting and photographing forigners on entry: There are two important things to notice: 1) the procedures does not apply to citizens from countries like Canada and EU countries "whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas". 2) Brazil made similar rules specifically targeted at US citizens as retaliation! This could also happen to japanese citizens.
Quote:
"January 07, 2004
U.S. Airports Now Fingerprint Foreigners
CHICAGO (AP) - Foreigners arriving at U.S. airports were photographed and had their fingerprints scanned Monday in the start of a government effort to use some of the latest surveillance technology to keep terrorists out of the country.
The program allows Customs officials to check passengers instantly against terrorist watch lists and a national criminal database.
The goal is to "make sure our borders are open to visitors but closed to terrorists," Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said.
The changes came as the United States entered a third consecutive week on high alert for terrorism, including especially tight security involving foreign flights. Fourteen flights on British Airways, Aeromexico and Air France have been canceled or delayed since New Year's Eve because of security fears.
Under the new rules, travelers press their index fingers onto an inkless scanner and then have their photograph taken as they make their way through customs.
The security checks target foreigners entering the 115 U.S. airports that handle international flights, as well as 14 major seaports. The only exceptions will be visitors from 27 countries mostly European nations whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas.
Also exempted will be most Canadians, because they usually are not required to get visas, and Mexicans who are coming into the country for a short time and not venturing far from the border.
The program, called US-VISIT, or U.S. Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology, is expected to check up to 24 million foreigners each year, though some will be repeat visitors.
"America has been and will always be a welcoming country, but we will also be on guard," Ridge said at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, where he greeted some of the first foreign passengers to pass through the system.
In a pilot program at Hartsfield-Jackson that preceded Monday's nationwide implementation, authorities turned up 21 people on the FBI's criminal watch list for such crimes as drug offenses, rape and visa fraud, Ridge said.
Homeland Security spokesman Bill Strassberger said that once screeners become proficient, the extra security will take 10 to 15 seconds per person.
Airport officials and passengers reported little fuss over the security checks, and many said they did not mind the extra steps if it meant safer skies. Passengers reported only minor delays, if any, in passing through customs checkpoints.
"We all want to go on a flight knowing we're going to arrive safely," said Layal Rashid, 22, a Cyprus resident who arrived at Chicago's O'Hare Airport on a flight from Frankfurt, Germany. "It puts your mind at ease to know that the security is stricter now."
But some foreign travelers were taken aback by the rules, and worried about a system that tracks their movements.
"We're not used to having our fingerprint and photo taken and it being filed. Who knows what they can do with that?" said Carlos Elizondo, who came to Dallas-Fort Worth Airport on a flight from Monterrey, Mexico.
Under the program, photographs go into a law-enforcement database that eventually will allow users to pull up photos of visa holders and make sure they match the person who is seeking to enter the country. The travel data is supposed to be securely stored and made available only to authorized officials on a need-to-know basis.
Foreigners also will be checked as they leave the country as an extra security measure and to ensure they have not overstayed their visa or violated other restrictions.
A similar program is to be installed at 50 land border crossings by the end of next year.
Nishith Shah, who arrived at Boston's Logan Airport from India, said he was comfortable with the process because it did not take long. But he said he hopes it does not lead to further restrictions on foreigners.
"Is it going to stop here?" Shah said.
In Brazil, meanwhile, the Foreign Ministry started fingerprinting and photographing arriving Americans last week in retaliation. U.S. citizens waited for hours Monday to be photographed and fingerprinted at Rio's international airport.
"As far as reciprocity, Brazil has every right to do this," said Claire Fallender, a 27-year-old American sociologist from Boston, who said she had been waiting for five hours. "The only problem is without the technology to process people, it's causing frustration and losing the point of protesting American policy."
End of Quote.
Here is a story from when USA started fingerprinting and photographing forigners on entry: There are two important things to notice: 1) the procedures does not apply to citizens from countries like Canada and EU countries "whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas". 2) Brazil made similar rules specifically targeted at US citizens as retaliation! This could also happen to japanese citizens.
Quote:
"January 07, 2004
U.S. Airports Now Fingerprint Foreigners
CHICAGO (AP) - Foreigners arriving at U.S. airports were photographed and had their fingerprints scanned Monday in the start of a government effort to use some of the latest surveillance technology to keep terrorists out of the country.
The program allows Customs officials to check passengers instantly against terrorist watch lists and a national criminal database.
The goal is to "make sure our borders are open to visitors but closed to terrorists," Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said.
The changes came as the United States entered a third consecutive week on high alert for terrorism, including especially tight security involving foreign flights. Fourteen flights on British Airways, Aeromexico and Air France have been canceled or delayed since New Year's Eve because of security fears.
Under the new rules, travelers press their index fingers onto an inkless scanner and then have their photograph taken as they make their way through customs.
The security checks target foreigners entering the 115 U.S. airports that handle international flights, as well as 14 major seaports. The only exceptions will be visitors from 27 countries mostly European nations whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas.
Also exempted will be most Canadians, because they usually are not required to get visas, and Mexicans who are coming into the country for a short time and not venturing far from the border.
The program, called US-VISIT, or U.S. Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology, is expected to check up to 24 million foreigners each year, though some will be repeat visitors.
"America has been and will always be a welcoming country, but we will also be on guard," Ridge said at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, where he greeted some of the first foreign passengers to pass through the system.
In a pilot program at Hartsfield-Jackson that preceded Monday's nationwide implementation, authorities turned up 21 people on the FBI's criminal watch list for such crimes as drug offenses, rape and visa fraud, Ridge said.
Homeland Security spokesman Bill Strassberger said that once screeners become proficient, the extra security will take 10 to 15 seconds per person.
Airport officials and passengers reported little fuss over the security checks, and many said they did not mind the extra steps if it meant safer skies. Passengers reported only minor delays, if any, in passing through customs checkpoints.
"We all want to go on a flight knowing we're going to arrive safely," said Layal Rashid, 22, a Cyprus resident who arrived at Chicago's O'Hare Airport on a flight from Frankfurt, Germany. "It puts your mind at ease to know that the security is stricter now."
But some foreign travelers were taken aback by the rules, and worried about a system that tracks their movements.
"We're not used to having our fingerprint and photo taken and it being filed. Who knows what they can do with that?" said Carlos Elizondo, who came to Dallas-Fort Worth Airport on a flight from Monterrey, Mexico.
Under the program, photographs go into a law-enforcement database that eventually will allow users to pull up photos of visa holders and make sure they match the person who is seeking to enter the country. The travel data is supposed to be securely stored and made available only to authorized officials on a need-to-know basis.
Foreigners also will be checked as they leave the country as an extra security measure and to ensure they have not overstayed their visa or violated other restrictions.
A similar program is to be installed at 50 land border crossings by the end of next year.
Nishith Shah, who arrived at Boston's Logan Airport from India, said he was comfortable with the process because it did not take long. But he said he hopes it does not lead to further restrictions on foreigners.
"Is it going to stop here?" Shah said.
In Brazil, meanwhile, the Foreign Ministry started fingerprinting and photographing arriving Americans last week in retaliation. U.S. citizens waited for hours Monday to be photographed and fingerprinted at Rio's international airport.
"As far as reciprocity, Brazil has every right to do this," said Claire Fallender, a 27-year-old American sociologist from Boston, who said she had been waiting for five hours. "The only problem is without the technology to process people, it's causing frustration and losing the point of protesting American policy."
End of Quote.
Last edited:
Han Chan, I like your posts, but please use the quote tag. And I don't know what you are going to say about the old article.
Another new procedure in the US is to fill out the online form before we leave, though they also hear complaints.
First, he should try to abolish the anti-terror UN resolution.
Another new procedure in the US is to fill out the online form before we leave, though they also hear complaints.
OK, tell me if he reported the ultra-xenophobic measure to the UN or not.
First, he should try to abolish the anti-terror UN resolution.
- 20 Aug 2003
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I know several people who have lived here more than 15-20 years. They will have to be printed and photo'd. That's longer than some Chinese or Koreans here.
Maybe you take the special permanent residence status a bit different.
No matter how much anime/manga-loving Chinese or Korean people come to Japan now, their resident status is not the special one like some Korean or Taiwanese people here. It is the same as yours.
So the length of time does not matter, just how loud pressure groups you belong to.
Momofuku Ando was the great ramen father and he chose the Taiwanese citizenship after the war at first, but he came back to Japan and founded the great ramen company.
Anyways, I don't know when the two Koreas will be unified, but hopefully the unusual unequality would be solved after the unification.
No matter how much anime/manga-loving Chinese or Korean people come to Japan now, their resident status is not the special one like some Korean or Taiwanese people here. It is the same as yours.
So the length of time does not matter, just how loud pressure groups you belong to.
Momofuku Ando was the great ramen father and he chose the Taiwanese citizenship after the war at first, but he came back to Japan and founded the great ramen company.
Anyways, I don't know when the two Koreas will be unified, but hopefully the unusual unequality would be solved after the unification.
- 20 Aug 2003
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That's because immigration considers them different and exempt from this printing/photoing.
I realize that. I think it is you who misunderstand me now.
I belong to no pressure group at all except for the fact that I am a foreigner with permanent resident status here, and I see us as being treated unfairly in this case. Don't you?
Well I think it was inevitable. The Japanese authorities are always bringing up ways to discriminate foreigners. An example was just after 911 police were allowed to stop me anywhere anytime and rummage through my backpack in Tokyo train stations. I know this because I was stopped 6 times over a 3 month period in Ikebukuro station by 2 police officers. They would in the middle of the station with everyone passing by rummage through my bag empty some of the contents then say ok you can go leaving me too re-pack my "school books" and try and run to my train, which of course I had now missed.
On another incident soeone got stabbed near a bank in my city "Fuchu." 1 week after the incident 2 detectives came to my apartment and started asking me questions. I showed them prrof of where I had been and what I did during the time. They were polite, but in the end they asked for my finger prints, noted my shoe size, and brand name. All in all a pretty freaky experience. I asked why they came to my door. There reply was that were going door-to-door, and talking with everyone in the area. hmm, I am still skeptical about that one!
On another incident soeone got stabbed near a bank in my city "Fuchu." 1 week after the incident 2 detectives came to my apartment and started asking me questions. I showed them prrof of where I had been and what I did during the time. They were polite, but in the end they asked for my finger prints, noted my shoe size, and brand name. All in all a pretty freaky experience. I asked why they came to my door. There reply was that were going door-to-door, and talking with everyone in the area. hmm, I am still skeptical about that one!
You may think...
Chinese/Korean people in their countries now come to Japan as a permanent resident, then the special zainichi status is granted.
But it is wrong. They are treated as same as you, the printing/photoing.
Don't worry. I don't know how many anti-G8 activists will come to Hokkaido next year, but it is your right to be loud, Japanese or non-Japanese, here.
- 20 Aug 2003
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I don't think anything of the sort. So, it is clear you really don't understand what I'm telling you.
Zainichi status is for the Chinese or Koreans who were born here, not for visitors. They don't have citizenship, yet they are exempt from being printed/photoed. I think this is wrong. Don't you?
- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
- 2,298
I like to think myself pretty well informed on the M.O. of the Japanese police. So first off I will point out that the maximum hold is 23 days, not 26.
Your scenario isn't so much paranoia as it is ludicrous hyperbole.
Taiko666
先輩
- 8 May 2006
- 334
- 10
Apologies for the factual error. When I was more of a nervous poster I used to check the minutiae of my posts for accuracy and validity, but recently I've become more relaxed and less guarded, which brings us to
Well, that's the danger if an issue gets one's goat as much as this does mine. I'm still sure there are many ways for foreigners' biometrics to be mis-used, through incompetence or otherwise.
In the state I live in, here in the US, you need to get fingerprinted and, of course, get your photo take when getting your drivers license. So I don't see this as that big a deal unless it takes more then a few mins to get processed.
I will be going to Japan and China next year, so will get a chance to see this for myself.
I will be going to Japan and China next year, so will get a chance to see this for myself.
- 20 Aug 2003
- 4,910
- 416
How would you feel if you had to do that every time you got into your car or every time you drove home? It's a big deal.
Only foreigners other than the Zaiinichi get this done every time they come to Japan, even if they have attained permanent resident status. It's unfair and discriminatory. If the reason for this is for public safety, then why don't the Zaiinichi get printed/photoed, and why don't the biggest offenders living in Japan (the Japanese themselves) get this treatment? This is not the USA where someone from the outside attacked them on 9/11. And, in case you hadn't read above, Japan had just stopped the fingerprinting, but now they want to reinstate it!?
Oh, and I am also from the USA and never got fingerprinted for my license in the 3 states in which I lived, so it is not a natural thing.
Han Chan
先輩
- 14 Mar 2006
- 444
- 16
Wait a minute, the issue is not first and foremost that fingerprints and photos are taken and kept in some archive, though this can be troubling enough in its self. The insulting part is that it is only foreigners - gaijin who are subject to this procedure. It seem like discrimination, and certainly in it self will reinforce stereotypical suspicion towards foreigners in Japan.
I do not mind giving my fingerprints and having photos taken, but I do mind ending up in some archive and being singled out as a potential terror suspect! It is insulting!
Last edited:
mr.sumo.snr
Gavin Gives Italian Ducks
- 19 Jul 2004
- 319
- 25
I couldn't fathom from that video or any of the posts here if these machines are going to be placed only in lines for foreign passport holders. If so, do re-entry permit holders now have to line up with all the other plebs? That WOULD be an inconvenience. Anyone have the details on that aspect of these new laws?
I find it most amusing that the Japan Immigration Office used a Japanese staffer to translate the dialogue for the video. It sounded like a high school student's class presentation about the threat of world terrorism. Has anyone found a link for the Japanese version of the video?
As video started and the announcer states: "We have an important notice for foreign visitors traveling to Japan...." I initially breathed a sign of relief thinking that it WASN'T going to affect me since I'm NOT a visitor – "sukker"!
--
I find it most amusing that the Japan Immigration Office used a Japanese staffer to translate the dialogue for the video. It sounded like a high school student's class presentation about the threat of world terrorism. Has anyone found a link for the Japanese version of the video?
As video started and the announcer states: "We have an important notice for foreign visitors traveling to Japan...." I initially breathed a sign of relief thinking that it WASN'T going to affect me since I'm NOT a visitor – "sukker"!
--
sigmentofb
先輩
- 1 Oct 2007
- 75
- 0
I believe someone told me that in order to be a citizen of Japan, you have to renounce your other citizenships. Is this true or not?
Ewok85
先輩
- 14 Nov 2003
- 2,401
- 44
YES. And I've been saying it from the start - you can no longer go through the "Japanese" side of immigrations when entering the country. So all of you with a spouse, and with children, have to split up and potentially wait up to an hour (and I might remind you there is nowhere to sit and wait, etc).
Correct. Japan does not allow dual citizenship.
