My discussion

[Elizabeth]

Thank you, I recently got a merry christmas message from a japanese friend. He told me I (or him) wouldn't stay in touch. He said my japanese has improved ,but he also mentioned violence? I see this word, being used a lot. Do you have any idea he means?

気になるのは、乱暴な日本語になっていることですね。

Genki nina runo wa(ha), (violent??) na nihongo ninna, teirugotodesune.

All I can imagine is that he may have seen one of your chat translation posts and mistook it for your own ? Or maybe when you ask how to use rude and nasty expressions in Japanese ? I worry about it ( 気になるのは ) sometimes in English, but not so far in Japanese....

 

[GoldCoinLover]

I think they are worried that your Japanese is becoming 'rude', by the kind of words you are using.

When some of the japanese told me to go to heck (I won't say the word), yeah I was rude, but only to those who are that way to me.

Elizabeth-san, or someone else, could you pelase explain what he said? The vocba so I can understand it better. Thanks

 

[Mike Cash]

When some of the japanese told me to go to heck (I won't say the word), yeah I was rude, but only to those who are that way to me.

This is an example of what I was talking about when I said a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

You can be rude (or perceived as rude) without even meaning to in a foreign language/culture. For example, let's take a look at one of your recent comments to Nangi: 日本語をべんきょうしろよ

Care to guess what's rude about it?

 

[GoldCoinLover]

This is an example of what I was talking about when I said a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

You can be rude (or perceived as rude) without even meaning to in a foreign language/culture. For example, let's take a look at one of your recent comments to Nangi: 日本語をべんきょうしろよ

Care to guess what's rude about it?

I have no clue. Someone on a chatroom told me to "Study japanese more!" and then said it in japanese. I thought that was the same comment to me, so what i was trying to say is, "I need to study japanese" more to NANGI.

 

[Elizabeth]

I have no clue. Someone on a chatroom told me to "Study japanese more!" and then said it in japanese. I thought that was the same comment to me, so what i was trying to say is, "I need to study japanese" more to NANGI.

You were trying to say "need to study Japanese" or " need to study Japanese more" ? :? For more you need もっと。

In this case 勉強しろよ is a rather rude command "Study more !" so what you ended up telling NANGI was to "study Japanese!" . "I need to (have to, must) study Japanese more" is 日本語をもっとべんきょうしなければなりません。 This may not come until the middle or end of your first book, though, so don't worry about it too much now. Hehe, a language works in strange and mysterious ways sometimes....(especially Japanese).

 

[Mike Cash]

Start to get the picture, Kevin?

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Start to get the picture, Kevin?

Yes, japanese is a hard language, I knew that already. I still hope Cacawata will send me that book, ☝ . I didn't get one for christmas, unfortunately . It was on my list.

Yes, I have alot of misunderstandings I knew this. What the hell do you want from me? Do you want me to say, "OK, I give up. Japanesei s hard. " I won't do this, I will be PERSISTANT. I am reading japanese sites, and will get a book soon.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Sorry if I misinterupteted this, but lately mikecash it seems like you are trying to DISCOURAGE me from studying the language.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

You were trying to say "need to study Japanese" or " need to study Japanese more" ? :? For more you need もっと。

In this case 勉強しろよ is a rather rude command "Study more !" so what you ended up telling NANGI was to "study Japanese!" . "I need to (have to, must) study Japanese more" is 日本語をもっとべんきょうしなければなりません。 This may not come until the middle or end of your first book, though, so don't worry about it too much now. Hehe, a language works in strange and mysterious ways sometimes....(especially Japanese). ;--)

It really doesn't seem that hard. Although I'm not sure why you used 'wo' ast he object marker as Nihongo seems to be the topic, or subject, unless it was understood to be.

なければなりません = must do
motsuto = not sure
Benkyou = study
rimasen = the copula, verb. See this particular one a lot it a lot, not sure what it means. Although I should.

What does え？？！ mean? I assume, like "WHAT??" I just saw it in an advertisement.

 

[Elizabeth]

It really doesn't seem that hard. Although I'm not sure why you used 'wo' ast he object marker as Nihongo seems to be the topic, or subject, unless it was understood to be.

なければなりません = must do
motsuto = not sure

It isn't hard, I just thought it was kind of a funny mistake. The subject is understand to be you, although you might want to make it clear next time you send NANGI something off a chat line. 日本語は勉強する is a special case emphasizing it is Japanese you need to study (as opposed to something else).

もっと, yeah I know that was supposed to be a small tsu. They are usually a little reduced in handwriting, but sometimes even larger depending on the font. You just have to learn what words take them to make the consonant longer (motto)....I don't think there is a particular rule to help.

rimasen = the copula, verb. See this particular one a lot it a lot, not sure what it means. Although I should.

It should be arimasen (not/don't have) -- but it wasn't used here....and I don't think it is a copula like desu, just a regular verb. Narimasen is the negative form of the verb "naru" (to become). If I don't do it, it won't become (in other words, I must). Just remember it as a complete phrase.

What does え？？！ mean? I assume, like "WHAT??" I just saw it in an advertisement.

I think so to. Sometimes it is えっ？？？

 

[Elizabeth]

Yes, japanese is a hard language, I knew that already. I still hope Cacawata will send me that book, ☝

Do you have something arranged for certain with him ? I still think your library can get one (from another library) if you have all the information on what you're looking for. Getting a job might be good work too and even supply some money for a class... ﾂ

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Do you have something arranged for certain with him ? I still think your library can get one (from another library) if you have all the information on what you're looking for. Getting a job might be good work too and even supply some money for a class... ﾂ

Cacawata said he'd send me a very thick beginners japanese book (he said it explains beginner to intermeditae!) I only have a dictionary, so this would be great. I even offered to pay shipping, since he said it was heavy. Haven't herad from him lately, though.

Nope, i've tried that. My library did mange to get 'calculus for dummies' from another library, but thats it. The rest were about the heroshima and nagashika bombings. The book really is for dummies..

 

[Mike Cash]

Sorry if I misinterupteted this, but lately mikecash it seems like you are trying to DISCOURAGE me from studying the language.

You are indeed misinterpreting it. I've done nothing but bang my head against the wall in an attempt to lead you in the direction of doing some focussed, directed, and PRODUCTIVE studying of Japanese. All I've seen you doing so far is meaninglessly spinning your wheels.

Probably the reason you're misinterpreting is because you think my advice to not go into chat rooms until you've actually studied some minimal amount of Japanese and can actually chat without relying on a crib sheet of things you have saved into a text file or things you run through an online translator is somehow meant to say that you shouldn't learn Japanese at all.

I keep getting this image of talking with a three year old who is very excited about having gotten a brand new tricycle and trying to convince him that riding it on the freeway is not really a good idea.

And, frankly, I sort of question how serious you are about pursuing your stated goal of becoming a professional translator after your recent comments about making the 30 minute drive to Phoenix to attend a class (if there are any) being....."a waste of gas". I am reminded of all the Japanese students of English I taught who expected the teacher to put more effort into their learning of English than they were willing to do themselves.

Does your family home have a basement?

 

[Elizabeth]

GCL -- I just checked the online catalog of the Glendale Public Library and there are several Japanese textbooks for beginners, including multiple copies of Japanese for Busy People, listed there. You may have gone to a branch location and not found anything, but even there Iwould be surprised. Isn't Glendale a fairly major metropolitan suberb ?

So working in a library myself, naturally that is my first recommendation. Please show some initiative by talking again to a librarian about obtaining relevant book or AV materials and worry about a class or making friends in a chatroom or whatever after you've gotten some experience under your belt.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

GCL -- I just checked the online catalog of the Glendale Public Library and there are several Japanese textbooks for beginners, including multiple copies of Japanese for Busy People, listed there. You may have gone to a branch location and not found anything, but even there Iwould be surprised. Isn't Glendale a fairly major metropolitan suberb ?

So working in a library myself, naturally that is my first recommendation. Please show some initiative by talking again to a librarian about obtaining relevant book or AV materials and worry about a class or making friends in a chatroom or whatever after you've gotten some experience under your belt.

I live in SURPRISE, not glendale. Well, that's wonderful. BUt I couldn't find any. I only found one lousy book (which wasnt very good) and I read it. I will go check again later. I'm going to call the japanese-society american now, in glendale, maybe they will teach classes?

Mikecash, I'm sick of your sarcasm. Fine, if you think I'm not interested in it, fine. Perhaps I won't be a translator. I did my research on this,a nd it is very difficult, apparently. You have to be able to translate simultaniously as well, but I am still going to japan and learning more there.

If you think I'm not serious in it, fine, go ahead and think that. I don't give 2 sh*t's what you think. I'm just SICK of you always duobting me. Here, I said I was misinterrinting you, and you can't agree with me, instead you just flame me, once again. If I didn't want to learn japanese,
1) I Wouldnt ask questions
2) I wouldnt be on this forum

Since everyone here tends to think I know NOTHING, which simply is not true, I do know 'the basics':
1) I know some kanji
2) I know hiragana
3) I know katakana
4) I know how to prounouce japanese orally
5) I know many of the basic particles

If THIS isn't the basics, then what is? In fact, I'm going to stop asking questions AND participing in this forum, because, quite frankly, I am sick of this. I try to ask questions, and am told over and over again "Do the basics again, do them again", when I HAVE done them. I'm going to stop asking questions here, posting here for 2 , 3 reasons:
1) It isn't appreciated
2) I'm told to go 'study the basics' when I know them. But sometimes this isnt apparent from my questions
3) I'm told to 'go study' and being told i'm 'not serious' about it
4) etc

Maybe I will post here agin once I learn the language better, as in, understand it MUCH better, since I'm truly not appreciated here.

 

[Elizabeth]

Maybe I will post here agin once I learn the language better, as in, understand it MUCH better, since I'm truly not appreciated here.

I always appreciate your contributions, gcl, and think you definately have something to add here . You've already forced me to think through several grammar questions I had always taken for granted or overlooked before. The only reason anyone cares is because they realize how much more you could be learning with the right study habits and want to see you achieve that potential. Otherwise we'd all be ignoring you the way most beginners here get treated. So, please please don't leave us now....

 

[Elizabeth]

Since everyone here tends to think I know NOTHING, which simply is not true, I do know 'the basics':
1) I know some kanji
2) I know hiragana
3) I know katakana
4) I know how to prounouce japanese orally
5) I know many of the basic particles

Understanding, written and orally, basic sentences, paragraphs and dialogues. Being able to create simple sentences and express basic ideas from memory. Knowing 'emergency' or 'survival' Japanese -- enough phrases to ask directions and get yourself out of an unexpected situation. Would all be topics covered in a good introductory book or class.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Understanding, written and orally, basic sentences, paragraphs and dialogues. Being able to create simple sentences and express basic ideas from memory. Knowing 'emergency' or 'survival' Japanese -- enough phrases to ask directions and get yourself out of an unexpected situation. Would all be topics covered in a good introductory book or class.

Ahhh, okay. I'm glad you care, elizabeth-san, this makes me feel wanted here

I do some 'emergency phrases', "Where is it?" "Doko desu ka?" , etc

But I can't put simple sentences together. Why? Because I can't seem to findt he right particles to use

By the way, I just called the japan american society where I live. A man called me back, and said they are going to japan soon. They said I'm welcome to come. But I can't afford, it hehe.

He's been there 20 times, and he can speak it, and read it fluently! I think he's american, he seemed happy I was interested in it, and said for me to call him back at 7:00 PM today and we can talk some japanese.


He also said he is a master of the katana, and japanese swordsmanship. He teaches karate (Ive taken it before, when i was 7, this is how i began interestd in japanese). He said a naitve japanese person is going to teach japanese in a few days, and I'm welcome to come. I will have to get a job, though, because my parents can't pay for it, nor can I.

 

[Damicci]

Ahhh, okay. I'm glad you care, elizabeth-san, this makes me feel wanted here

I do some 'emergency phrases', "Where is it?" "Doko desu ka?" , etc

But I can't put simple sentences together. Why? Because I can't seem to findt he right particles to use

By the way, I just called the japan american society where I live. A man called me back, and said they are going to japan soon. They said I'm welcome to come. But I can't afford, it hehe.

He's been there 20 times, and he can speak it, and read it fluently! I think he's american, he seemed happy I was interested in it, and said for me to call him back at 7:00 PM today and we can talk some japanese.


He also said he is a master of the katana, and japanese swordsmanship. He teaches karate (Ive taken it before, when i was 7, this is how i began interestd in japanese). He said a naitve japanese person is going to teach japanese in a few days, and I'm welcome to come. I will have to get a job, though, because my parents can't pay for it, nor can I.

Uhm your struggles with particles are from not studying and practicing. You have a general idea of particles but I think your choosing some bad words. Just stick to simple things like you said.

kore ha hon desu. this is a book
sore ha enpitsu desu. that is a pencil
are ha kuruma desu over there is a car.

kono hon ha ookii desu. This book is big.
sono enpitsu ha nagai desu. That pencil is long
ano kuruma ha kirei desu. That car over there is pretty.

sono hon ha watashi no hon desu. That book is my book.
watashi ha anata no hon ga arimasu. I have your book.
watashi no hon ha BEDDO no ue ga(ni?) arimasu.
(Litterally the bed's top has my book.)
My book is on top of the bed.

 

[Elizabeth]

Ahhh, okay. I'm glad you care, elizabeth-san, this makes me feel wanted here

I do some 'emergency phrases', "Where is it?" "Doko desu ka?" , etc

But I can't put simple sentences together. Why? Because I can't seem to findt he right particles to use.

All you need to do is say what you want in English, as much of the Japanese as you know and we will fill in the rest. Particles are hard because they rely more on intention, feeling and context than in English. Like what we use intonation or articles like "a" and "the" to emphasize or a part of the sentence or introduce a topic or subject, Japanese uses particles. I'm sure any problem you've had someone else has had the exact same issue. Everyone here struggles with it on a daily basis in fact. Just don't let it be an excuse for failure or inaction.