Murdering English

[Tamayo]

You know, I had somewhat of a similar argument with my mother once about names which are borrowed from foreign cultures. Basically, she thought that you should pronounce your name based on the culture/country/dialect area/whatever you're in whether it's correct or incorrect. (For example, John going to Japan and introducing himself as ジョン instead of ジャン .) I didn't disagree with her, but I also said that I can't blame people if they never thought/wanted to butcher the name they had grown up calling their own since it's different, even though the name is technically the same when translated from one language to the next. Basically, I feel like it's respectful, for lack of a better word, to understand the limitations of the language and culture you're a foreigner in, and to orient your name to THEM. I consider names to be purely phonetic, unless specifically intended otherwise.

I think that to a certain degree, as a few people here are saying, a word's usage can become correct regardless of its accuracy in relation to the language/culture it was taken or stolen from. So on one hand, I really don't see an issue with it, so long as the "new" word doesn't cause confusion for the speaker and/or audience.

On the other hand, however, I can see how this sort of thing would really confuse people in Japan who are trying to learn English. In a country that teaches English so strictly, it's really a wonder why they'd allow people in mass numbers to be misled if it can be avoided. I would think that fixing Engrish could be a big first step to making the English education over there more useful. I don't know much about the issue, but I've read on MANY occasions that the enormous amount of time and effort spent on studying and teaching English in Japan is essentially wasted since there are so few people who come out of it having learned much practical/conversational English.

I'm curious, Zorro -- Is this an English teacher's pet peeve, or are you concerned with the confusion enveloping Engrish? I totally agree with you when it comes to situations like in the picture you posted, but in cases where the borrowed word actually makes sense, I see no significant harm.

 

[alecgraham]

(For example, John going to Japan and introducing himself as ジョン instead of ジャン .) I didn't disagree with her, but I also said that I can't blame people if they never thought/wanted to butcher the name they had grown up calling their own since it's different, even though the name is technically the same when translated from one language to the next.

That reminds me of the fairly new trend of reporters with Spanish or Arabic names pronouncing them the native way instead of the English way, on air. As in your example above, I get that they may feel strange, like they are "butchering" the true pronunciation by putting an English accent on "Rodriguez".

At the same time, it drives me nuts. Hello, they're reporting in English and doing so in the United States. I took Spanish in school, but whey they suddenly switch to a Spanish accent for their name and say it extremely fast, I have no idea what the hell they're saying. It's almost like these journalists don't want me to ever learn their name. (shrug).

I noticed they do the opposite as well. You might hear a flurry of Spanish and then, suddenly, "Times Square" in perfect English. It is clear that these reporters grew up bilingual, but I wonder how the Spanish listeners feel.

Last thing: I don't understand why BBC (and some American) broadcasters have to say Ta-HREER Square, aspirated like the true Arabic pronunciation. An aspirated 'h' just before an 'r' does not exist in English. Drives me nuts! Just say Ta-Reer for the love of god.
By the same token -- not that this is Zorro's point; it's not -- I don't think Japanese people should have to pronounce English the English way unless they're actually speaking English. Kana-ized words? No problem.

 

[Tamayo]

At the same time, it drives me nuts. Hello, they're reporting in English and doing so in the United States. I took Spanish in school, but whey they suddenly switch to a Spanish accent for their name and say it extremely fast, I have no idea what the hell they're saying. It's almost like these journalists don't want me to ever learn their name. (shrug).

I agree completely. I was really only talking about regular, every-day life situations, though. I consider it to be professional, respectful, helpful, etc. to orient your name (and whatever else may confuse the native people in a country you're foreign to) to THEIR pronunciations. For regular, "every-day" life, such as giving a name to a Starbucks cashier to call your order, I'm not bothered so much when people pronounce their names the way they would in their home country, but I DO consider it to be a great thing when they go out of their way to pronounce it the way they "should" in whatever country they're in. Personally, even though it can be really awkward and embarrassing at times, I do my best to pronounce my name with an accent when I visit other countries. When it comes to public figures, or just anyone who should practice some professionalism, though, it pisses me off in ways I can hardly describe, ESPECIALLY when it's only a few words that are spoken with a heavy accent.

It's somewhat of a pandemic here in California, what with all of the people who have come here from Mexico. It just puts me in a bad mood to hear someone speaking perfect English, and then they'll throw in a sharp, loud "Taco" with a really heavy accent. I truly do appreciate it when a foreigner will try to adopt our accent -- Those are the sort of people I respect a LOT.

 

[alecgraham]

It's somewhat of a pandemic here in California, what with all of the people who have come here from Mexico. It just puts me in a bad mood to hear someone speaking perfect English, and then they'll throw in a sharp, loud "Taco" with a really heavy accent.

lol. Saturday Night Live had a great skit featuring that some years ago.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Murdered!
View attachment 12503
Is it so hard to just ask a native speaker with so many of them walking around?

Wrong translations and borrowing English words are a whole different kettle of fish. You have obviously become confused along the way.

Zoro, I don't know what is with your superiority complex and the "YOUR" language is the be all to end all. But, contrary to your belief, sometimes it is a lot better to use a borrowed English word, then coin that word for your language. It simplifies something that could be quite complex.

Take the good old "Terebi" or TV in English. Are you suggesting that the Japanese should use "電視機" in day to day life? That would make things so much harder. And not to mention, using Katakana in its self can apply a connotation to a word

Japanese Grammar is certainly different to English, so surely you can't expect the language to follow all English rules and where an adjective or a noun should be used in it. Judging from your posts you have a mediocre grasp on the language and this only compounds your lack of understanding of the language and how it is used. Like I said before, the word ceases to be English once it is made into Katakana, so there is no correct usage from an English language stand point, purely b/c the language is "Japanese". That is the bottom line. Languages evolve, they borrow words and make them their own.

 

[FinancialWar]

the whole thread lost it's direction and point after OP posted that Engrish sign. These are two completely different things.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Wrong translations and borrowing English words are a whole different kettle of fish. You have obviously become confused along the way.

Um...like...its my thread. I know what its about. Did you read the title? Its not "Murdering Loan words" , Its "Murdering English". Re-read the OP please. Granted it only got into the specifics of loan words, but it also touched on general things such as Engrish and English language education. I also mentioned "signs that are supposed to be in English". Obviously that is not about katakana loan words.

That said, I think your confusion is understandable as I did not specifically mention poor English skills and poor translating ability. But on one hand, it was just one little picture and I did not expound on it, and on the other hand, are you actually under the impression that the sloppiness and inaccuracy displayed in the use of English loan words has no bearing on the sloppiness and inaccuracy displayed in poor English ability and translations?

Zoro, I don't know what is with your superiority complex

Please note that this not rhetorical: Please post your evidence of my superiority complex. Is it from this thread, or is it carried over from another?

But, contrary to your belief, sometimes it is a lot better to use a borrowed English word, then coin that word for your language. It simplifies something that could be quite complex.

Contrary to your belief, I don't have a problem with loan words. I have a problem with non-native speakers changing the original meaning for purposes of their own language. Its in the thread, although granted, 2 pages is one hell of a lot of reading.

Take the good old "Terebi" or TV in English. Are you suggesting that the Japanese should use "電視機" in day to day life? That would make things so much harder. And not to mention, using Katakana in its self can apply a connotation to a word

"Terebi" is a katakanized version of "television" that has also had its tail cut off. Its somewhat different from what I was complaining about. I don't have a problem with the katakanized pronunciation. You cannot just change from Japanese style pronunciation to English style and speak smoothly. In that sense the word must conform. However, I don't see why it could not be "terebishon" if they are going to borrow the word, or why they could not call it "teebee" or "てぃーびー" .

But what is wrong with 電視機 I don't even know, except I never heard it before. How about 受像機 (jusouki)? Was that so hard to say?

Japanese Grammar is certainly different to English, so surely you can't expect the language to follow all English rules and where an adjective or a noun should be used in it.

Are you speaking of borrowed phrases now? Could you provide an example?

Or are you speaking of combinations of borrowed loan words? Again, an example please.

Like I said before, the word ceases to be English once it is made into Katakana,

I have yet to meet the Japanese who is aware of your little rule. When I tell them a word means something completely different in English, they always express surprise. They don't come at me with the attitude of "Its OUR word now! We stole it fair and square!".

There may be nothing I can do about it, but that does not mean its right or helpful. I see this situation as a fat negative for Japanese that simply need not be.

Why I am the bad guy for wishing to foster and ease the process of communication, or desiring rudimentary attempts at accuracy, I really don't know. Its not like I want to force my language on others. I would be perfectly happy if all loan words disappeared and I had to speak pure Japanese from now on. I have taken the time to learn Japanese because I live in Japan, unlike so many others. If people want to learn and use English, I think that is fine so long as they take care not to murder it.

Judging from your posts you have a mediocre grasp on the language and this only compounds your lack of understanding of the language and how it is used.

Provide an example that backs up your claim please. How anything here could lead you to that conclusion would seem to show that you have a mediocre grasp on logic.

That is the bottom line. Languages evolve, they borrow words and make them their own.

Again, I have no problem with borrowing. I have a problem with murdering.

I have no problem with evolving, so long as its done in a useful way that does not sabotage communication in a sense that seems more like "devolving". That said, language evolution should be left to the native speakers of that language, not foreign countries' dabbling that will be ignored by the actual speakers 99.99 percent of the time.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

By the same token -- not that this is Zorro's point; it's not -- I don't think Japanese people should have to pronounce English the English way unless they're actually speaking English. Kana-ized words? No problem.

As far as I am concerned, its within the scope to touch on this a bit.

The way I see it though, its a mixed bag. There are times when some adherence to the native language accent and pronunciation do work and do help. Its a matter of making a judgment call though, not going overboard in what just looks like an attempt to display your "worldliness". So I guess I am between Tamayo and his mother.

For example, a great many Americans might be tempted to say the name "Nanami" as "Naneimi", but I would never support that. Then you have the bastardization of the word "karaoke" which Americans say like "carry-OH-Kee" which is like, damn, can't you read phonetically?

On the other hand you have languages like Chinese where when native English speakers try to pronounce names its nothing but offensive to poor Chinese ears. (I have tried but just could not get some friends' names right). But I cannot see any practical solution to that but what so many Chinese do already: adopt a new name in the local language.

But yes, on the whole, sudden changes in cadence, accent, etc can be very jarring and hard to follow and I suppose, usually unnecessary.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I'm curious, Zorro -- Is this an English teacher's pet peeve, or are you concerned with the confusion enveloping Engrish?

Both, and more. I am the type of person who feels that if a thing is worth doing, its worth doing right. The utter slovenliness involved with so much English borrowing and use is just outrageous and offensive.

After all, these mistaken loan words were NOT a case of "Hey, I think I will give this word a whole knew meaning in Japanese and screw English!" but more a case of "I heard a new English word, had a guess at the meaning, can't be bothered to look it up, and I am going to impress my friends with my genius level English ability! " You know it, I know it. Each and every mistaken loan word is just that; a mistake. Nobody aware of the real meaning ever introduced a mistaken loan word on purpose except for native speaker pranksters who intentionally teach their students incorrect English.

The whole mistaken loan word phenomenon is a giant stinking pit of stupidity, laziness and gullibility. And all it takes to cure is a glance in a dictionary, and in the year 2013 any homeless guy could go peruse one in any bookstore for free.

I totally agree with you when it comes to situations like in the picture you posted, but in cases where the borrowed word actually makes sense, I see no significant harm.

If by "make sense" you mean it the meaning is unchanged, I agree.

 

[dsvlee]

If the foreign words should keep its origin way, why English still be so different with mainland Europeans? Why American's pronounciation is quite different from English? By the way, tea, kungfu and some other Chinese worlds are heard strange to a Chinese.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Um...like...its my thread. I know what its about. Did you read the title? Its not "Murdering Loan words" , Its "Murdering English". Re-read the OP please. Granted it only got into the specifics of loan words, but it also touched on general things such as Engrish and English language education. I also mentioned "signs that are supposed to be in English". Obviously that is not about katakana loan words.
That said, I think your confusion is understandable as I did not specifically mention poor English skills and poor translating ability. But on one hand, it was just one little picture and I did not expound on it, and on the other hand, are you actually under the impression that the sloppiness and inaccuracy displayed in the use of English loan words has no bearing on the sloppiness and inaccuracy displayed in poor English ability and translations?

From your first post,

"As we all know, Japan not only imports a lot of English and other languages, they also put their own spin on it, as well as their own pronunciation. They also make their own combinations of English words.

It annoys the crap out of me. I don't mind loan words per se, in the sense that we have French words in English. But, as far as I know, most of the French words in English are used correctly, especially the more modern imports. And even when they are not used correctly, I believe those are from the Norman occupation of England, and you cannot really blame an occupied people for messing up the language of their occupiers.

Japan is not occupied, at least not in the classical sense. They are not having English forced on them with a weapon at their head. So do they have any excuse for terms like ガソリンスタンド、 テンション、and マイカー? I don't think so.

And while I am well aware of English speakers mangling words like futon (no, its not a kind of couch...grrrr) I don't think the bastardization of languages is anywhere near the level it is in Japan.
"

Zoro, here you are clearly bitching about loan words. You have a habit of trying to change what you have written by means , "That is not what I meant" argument. You wrote Katakana words and commented specifically on them , not the translations, but the way the Japanese use loan words.

Please note that this not rhetorical: Please post your evidence of my superiority complex. Is it from this thread, or is it carried over from another?
Contrary to your belief, I don't have a problem with loan words. I have a problem with non-native speakers changing the original meaning for purposes of their own language. Its in the thread, although granted, 2 pages is one hell of a lot of reading.

Your superiority comes from your presumption that the Japanese should conform to the English language and its correct use and not having the Japanese language evolve on its own.

Yes you do, I will quote you again.

"Japan is not occupied, at least not in the classical sense. They are not having English forced on them with a weapon at their head. So do they have any excuse for terms like ガソリンスタンド、 テンション、and マイカー? I don't think so."

If that is not a problem with loan words , then I don't know what is???

"Terebi" is a katakanized version of "television" that has also had its tail cut off. Its somewhat different from what I was complaining about. I don't have a problem with the katakanized pronunciation. You cannot just change from Japanese style pronunciation to English style and speak smoothly. In that sense the word must conform. However, I don't see why it could not be "terebishon" if they are going to borrow the word, or why they could not call it "teebee" or "てぃーびー" .
But what is wrong with 電視機 I don't even know, except I never heard it before. How about 受像機 (jusouki)? Was that so hard to say?

Why, should it be "terebishon" or "teebee"? Here again you are showing your superiority as an English speaker, by means of dictating how the Japanese language should use borrowed words. "Terebi" is far more easier to use than your examples.

And "電視機" is Chinese for TV.

Again , you are showing you lack of experience with Japanese, contrary to your ideas, the spoken language is not the only part of Japanese. How much harder and time consuming is it to write "受像機"? Using "テレビ" is far more simpler as I said before.

Are you speaking of borrowed phrases now? Could you provide an example?
Or are you speaking of combinations of borrowed loan words? Again, an example please.
I have yet to meet the Japanese who is aware of your little rule. When I tell them a word means something completely different in English, they always express surprise. They don't come at me with the attitude of "Its OUR word now! We stole it fair and square!".

Again, your are showing your lack of understanding of the language. You obviously have not heard of "和製英語". Here is a Wiki page for you backing up "My Rule" as you put it. I am pretty sure 99% of the adult Japanese population have heard the term "和製英語", so you must only know those who haven't. :banghead:
和製英語 - Wikipedia

There may be nothing I can do about it, but that does not mean its right or helpful. I see this situation as a fat negative for Japanese that simply need not be.

This statement is ridiculous. How on earth is this a negative for Japanese? B/c you say so....

Why I am the bad guy for wishing to foster and ease the process of communication, or desiring rudimentary attempts at accuracy, I really don't know. Its not like I want to force my language on others .

Really, that is what you are doing and you statement below re-enforces that too.

I would be perfectly happy if all loan words disappeared and I had to speak pure Japanese from now on. I have taken the time to learn Japanese because I live in Japan, unlike so many others. If people want to learn and use English, I think that is fine so long as they take care not to murder it.

It is the Japanese language and they can change it to however it suits them IMO. Whether that means changing what was once an English word into something that is easier for the Japanese to use, then so be it.

Provide an example that backs up your claim please. How anything here could lead you to that conclusion would seem to show that you have a mediocre grasp on logic.

I don't think you have to be a genius to see that you have a limited understanding of Japanese, purely through what you are writing here. But, sure, please tell us what level you are on the JLPT?

Again, I have no problem with borrowing. I have a problem with murdering.
I have no problem with evolving, so long as its done in a useful way that does not sabotage communication in a sense that seems more like "devolving". That said, language evolution should be left to the native speakers of that language, not foreign countries' dabbling that will be ignored by the actual speakers 99.99 percent of the time.

So are you fluent in Japanese? If not I can guarantee you are murdering the Japanese language when you speak it, so what makes you so special?

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Dude, the thread is about what I say it is. Its my thread dude. Get over it.

Yeah, I focused on loan words in the beginning. So what? As per my explanation, which you conveniently ignored, the scope of this thread is about more than just loan words.

Your superiority comes from your presumption that the Japanese should conform to the English language and its correct use and not having the Japanese language evolve on its own.

Umm..like...nowhere did I say that the Japanese language could not evolve on its own.

Why, should it be "terebishon" or "teebee"? Here again you are showing your superiority as an English speaker, by means of dictating how the Japanese language should use borrowed words. "Terebi" is far more easier to use than your examples.

No. I am just saying they should either borrow or make their own, rather than take the middle path of mangling English and other languages. And you are telling me that one more syllable makes it so much harder? I don't think so.

I am pretty sure that if Japanese knew the word "futon" was being used incorrectly in America, they would ask "What the hell is the point?" I know I do.

Again , you are showing you lack of experience with Japanese, contrary to your ideas, the spoken language is not the only part of Japanese. How much harder and time consuming is it to write "受像機"? Using "テレビ" is far more simpler as I said before.

テレビション

ティーびー

I really don't see the big deal here. They may sound strange, but so did テレビ when it was first uttered. Just because you and they got used to a word does not mean you have a better grasp of what fits in with Japanese.

And 受像機？ Would not be the first kanji word Japanese had to deal with. If its such murder, just write it じゅぞうき。

Just because there is the phenomenon of waseieigo does not make it right or a rule. Further, I doubt most Japanese, on the spot, could give you a clear definition that is it MISTAKEN English and would still be surprised if you said an English word and stated that its used incorrectly in Japan. They may respond "和製英語" after you explained, but the idea that its some entitlement is simply not there.

I have never met a Japanese who said waseieigo with pride. Its usually said with a bit of embarrassment.

So are you fluent in Japanese? If not I can guarantee you are murdering the Japanese language when you speak it, so what makes you so special?

I do not promote my mistakes as the new world order, nor pretend I make no mistakes, but rather I seek them out and try to correct them. That is what makes me special. Also, if I borrow something, I take good care of it.

Yes, I speak Japanese pretty fluently. I don't go out of my way with reading and writing though, but I know enough that if they can write and say 掃除機 they can damn well read and write 受像機 without blowing a gasket.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I don't think you have to be a genius to see that you have a limited understanding of Japanese, purely through what you are writing here. But, sure, please tell us what level you are on the JLPT?

Zero. I don't need a test to tell me my wife, coworkers and friends know what I am saying.

It is the Japanese language and they can change it to however it suits them IMO. Whether that means changing what was once an English word into something that is easier for the Japanese to use, then so be it.

Two completely different things.

And while you are so fixated on your own example of テレビ, which I already explained was a bit different from my complaint, why not ponder the examples I brought up, such as tension, gasoline stand, and my car?

This may surprise you, but I brought up my examples to illustrate the problem. You seem to have brought in your own example to dodge my point.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Dude, the thread is about what I say it is. Its my thread dude. Get over it.
Yeah, I focused on loan words in the beginning. So what? As per my explanation, which you conveniently ignored, the scope of this thread is about more than just loan words.

Well don't have a fit when people coment on the part of the post that you focused on. So, in fact it should be you who needs to "get over it".

Umm..like...nowhere did I say that the Japanese language could not evolve on its own.
No. I am just saying they should either borrow or make their own, rather than take the middle path of mangling English and other languages.

Really, so when you say quote "I would like to see some legislation to make it stop. " , you don't actually mean you want the Japanese people to conform to YOUR standards or someone else's?

You have a bad habit of back pedaling and changing you stance half way through a thread.

And you are telling me that one more syllable makes it so much harder? I don't think so.

In the pure sense of what is considered more difficult without measuring how much more difficult. Yes, those examples are harder to deal with , by the fact that they have more characters to deal with.

I am pretty sure that if Japanese knew the word "futon" was being used incorrectly in America, they would ask "What the hell is the point?" I know I do.
テレビション
ティーびー

Yes we know you do, hence the stupid thread.

I asked a few people from work what were their thoughts on the incorrect use of "futon". Their answers, they did not have any opinion on it and when pressed they said they did not know what to think. Actually , I think 99% of the population would not care either.

I really don't see the big deal here. They may sound strange, but so did テレビ when it was first uttered. Just because you and they got used to a word does not mean you have a better grasp of what fits in with Japanese. And 受像機？ Would not be the first kanji word Japanese had to deal with. If its such murder, just write it じゅぞうき。

No, it would not be the first time Japanese had to deal with Kanji, but are you deliberately stupid? Using "テレビ" as opposed to "受像機" is much easier and that is the whole point. Like I said before, using Katakana has another benefit through the added connotations it has when used.

Just because there is the phenomenon of waseieigo does not make it right or a rule. Further, I doubt most Japanese, on the spot, could give you a clear definition that is it MISTAKEN English and would still be surprised if you said an English word and stated that its used incorrectly in Japan. They may respond "和製英語" after you explained, but the idea that its some entitlement is simply not there.

Honestly, I can't believe your dullness. You asked for something backing "My Rule" up. (And no where did I say it was my rule, you said that), When I do, you cry foul and say "does not make it right or a rule". Who cares if it is right, it is a fact that "和製英語" exists and that a lot of people may not actually know what is "和製英語". But that brings me back to my original point, like I said before, the moment it is made into Katakana is the moment it ceases to be English in the strict sense of the word. And 99% of Japanese would not need an explanation for that.

I have never met a Japanese who said waseieigo with pride. Its usually said with a bit of embarrassment.
I do not promote my mistakes as the new world order, nor pretend I make no mistakes, but rather I seek them out and try to correct them. That is what makes me special. Also, if I borrow something, I take good care of it.
Yes, I speak Japanese pretty fluently. I don't go out of my way with reading and writing though, but I know enough that if they can write and say 掃除機 they can damn well read and write 受像機 without blowing a gasket.

You just said above that most Japanese could not give a clear definition that is it MISTAKEN English and therefore , how would they know that it is 和製英語 that they are in fact speaking. I am certain that Japanese don't have a problem saying "マイカー"、"ガードマン", "コンセント" or "サラリーマン", all of which is 和製英語.

Which is it, they don't know what it is or they are embarrassed to speak it?

Zoro, you make up some sh!t for sure and I gather you don't need Japanese for you job, so I would love to hear that fluency of yours.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Well don't have a fit when people coment on the part of the post that you focused on.

Boom! Done. Enough of you. I am not the one who complained that a simple picture and poor translations were off topic. That was you and another.

Not wasting any more time on you as you are lost in space. Good-bye.

 

[FrustratedDave]

You are a ignorant piece of sh!t who can't hack being told that he is wrong. You seem to think that your opinion is the bees knees, news flash, you know sh!t, but you just can't accept it.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

You are a ignorant piece of sh!t who can't hack being told that he is wrong. You seem to think that your opinion is the bees knees, news flash, you know sh!t, but you just can't accept it.

Well, that was mature.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Well, that was mature.

Yep, ignorant piece of sh!t.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Here is another fun one, コンセント. Really threw me for a loop when I got here. Turns out its a corruption of "concentric plug" which is still Greek to me. And now it looks like the word "consent" might be entering the Japanese language via such buzzwords as informed consent. I can just hear all the questions being asked to Eikawa teachers what informed consent has to do with electrical outlets and the Eikawa teacher standing there scratching his head.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Here is another fun one, コンセント. Really threw me for a loop when I got here. Turns out its a corruption of "concentric plug" which is still Greek to me. And now it looks like the word "consent" might be entering the Japanese language via such buzzwords as informed consent. I can just hear all the questions being asked to Eikawa teachers what informed consent has to do with electrical outlets and the Eikawa teacher standing there scratching his head.

Good for you. Those Japanese people must be so embarrassed when they mumble "コンセント" considering the fact that it is 和製英語.

 

[nahadef]

Just to give a few examples of poorly designed katakana words I've encountered...

フリドリンクス (furidorinkusu / free drinks) <maybe the spelling is off> - used at bars and restaurants to say that you can drink all you like... if you pay a fee. Not free. Why they use that instead of 飲み放題 is beyond me. "It sounds good," is the reason I was given when I asked about it.

マイペス (maipesu / my pace) <again, maybe the spelling is off> - used to describe students (or people?) who are kind of slow, or borderline Aspergers, who can't manage to go with the rest of the class. In English, I suppose we would just call them 'special' at this point. 'my pace' is quite a euphemism. I was able to imagine it before it was explained to me though.

 

[nahadef]

Good for you. Those Japanese people must be so embarrassed when they mumble "コンセント" considering the fact that it is 和製英語.

Not to get in the way of your patronising sarcasm, but there is a point in that a lot of Japanese think they 'know' a bit of English based on their katakana words, and are genuinely embarrassed when they try to use some of it and totally fail at it. I've seen it. Nobody wants to miscommunicate in a second language, and on top of that, nobody wants to be confident that they know a word because they assumed the word they were using was of that language.

I've heard that French people never say 'deja vu', despite the meaning in English. But I'm no French language scholar.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Good for you. Those Japanese people must be so embarrassed when they mumble "コンセント" considering the fact that it is 和製英語.

Ignorance is bliss.

As Nahadef points out, you dispel the ignorance and things change.

People really don't like to find out they are wrong. Reactions range from embarrassment to pure rage. (cough).

 

[FrustratedDave]

Not to get in the way of your patronising sarcasm, but there is a point in that a lot of Japanese think they 'know' a bit of English based on their katakana words, and are genuinely embarrassed when they try to use some of it and totally fail at it. I've seen it. Nobody wants to miscommunicate in a second language, and on top of that, nobody wants to be confident that they know a word because they assumed the word they were using was of that language.
I've heard that French people never say 'deja vu', despite the meaning in English. But I'm no French language scholar.

No feel free, patronizing sarcasm is a given when dealing with Mark of Zoro, but there seems to more than me do it right now I feel.

You are speaking of when they are speaking in the language that the word originated from, not when they speak it in Japanese. If it is a mainstream word in Japanese, then I have never seen anyone speak them with embarrassment between themselves.

That is what Mark Of Zoro was initially crying about, not using English correctly when the Japanese borrow the words for their own language.

As for 飲み放題 and フリドリンクス, what is the problem here?

Ignorance is bliss.
As Nahadef points out, you dispel the ignorance and things change.
People really don't like to find out they are wrong. Reactions range from embarrassment to pure rage. (cough).

When dealing with mental midgets like yourself, it is not hard for ones feathers to be ruffled. As for Nahadef's points, he is talking about when the Japanese use the borrowed words in an English conversation, not within the Japanese language and what you are so hard against. Go, on try and change your tune again.

 

[nahadef]

As for 飲み放題 and フリドリンクス, what is the problem here?

The advertisement said: フリードリンクス - ﾂ･2,000

That's kind of dumb, in my opinion. Even if it makes sense in Japanese.