Legibility of calligraphic writing
- Thread starter eeky
- Start date
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- Tags
- calligraphy
- 22 Feb 2008
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The link returns "403 Forbidden" error.
EDIT:
Probably the error is due to the referer. A copy-and-paste of the url works fine.
The answer would be no. The text is not only written in cursive / semi-cursive script but also uses 変体仮名.
EDIT2:
Here's what's written in the text.
こひす連は
わ可みはか希と
な利尓介利
さ利とて
飛と尓曽八ぬ毛の
ゆ衛
かゝり火尓あらぬ
わ可みのなそ毛可
九なみ堂の可八尓う
支て毛ゆら無
こひすれは
わかみはかけと
なりにけり
さりとて
ひとにそはぬもの
ゆゑ
かかり火にあらぬ
わかみのなそもか
くなみたのかはにう
きてもゆらむ
恋すれば我が身は影と成りにけりさりとて人に添わぬものゆえ
（古今和歌集 巻十一 00528 題しらず 読人しらず）
篝火にあらぬ我が身のなぞもかく涙の河にうきて(double meaning of 浮きて and 憂きて)燃ゆらむ
（古今和歌集 巻十一 00529 題しらず 読人しらず）
EDIT:
Probably the error is due to the referer. A copy-and-paste of the url works fine.
The answer would be no. The text is not only written in cursive / semi-cursive script but also uses 変体仮名.
EDIT2:
Here's what's written in the text.
こひす連は
わ可みはか希と
な利尓介利
さ利とて
飛と尓曽八ぬ毛の
ゆ衛
かゝり火尓あらぬ
わ可みのなそ毛可
九なみ堂の可八尓う
支て毛ゆら無
こひすれは
わかみはかけと
なりにけり
さりとて
ひとにそはぬもの
ゆゑ
かかり火にあらぬ
わかみのなそもか
くなみたのかはにう
きてもゆらむ
恋すれば我が身は影と成りにけりさりとて人に添わぬものゆえ
（古今和歌集 巻十一 00528 題しらず 読人しらず）
篝火にあらぬ我が身のなぞもかく涙の河にうきて(double meaning of 浮きて and 憂きて)燃ゆらむ
（古今和歌集 巻十一 00529 題しらず 読人しらず）
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #3
Strange ... it works OK for me.
Can you read it yourself, or do you just recognise it as a known text? You've quoted more than actually appears in the picture, right?
- 22 Feb 2008
- 18,266
- 4,926
Strange indeed. It works now also for me.
No. The first paragraph is exactly what is written there.
It's just not 楷書体? See the following examples.
連
可
希
I can't read all of the characters, though. I googled with few phrases and got the full poem, and then rechecked indecipherable ones.
blutorange
後輩
- 4 Sep 2010
- 18
- 13
Hiragana derive from kanji in cursive script. Formerly, for a certain syllable, people were using different kanji. Take for example the syllable "re": you could use a cursive version of 礼 or 連 as a "letter" that stands for this syllable.
You may want to read the linked wikipedia article about hentaigana toritobe provided.
Today, kana are standardized, and there is an official kana for each syllable. れ is from 礼. I would argue that it is not helpful to consider some of those glyphs from that image as kanji, otherwise you would have to say that the first line should be 己比寸連波. But only the standard kana are encoded in unicode/sjis, so 連 is used to represent that kana.
What may give problems as well is that it is not written in modern Japanese (the 古今和歌集 was written more than one millenium ago). There were no dokuten, so が would be written か&c., some sound changes have changed some words in modern Japanese, so you might not recognize them immediately.
Take the first line: こひすれは
Add dakuten: こひすれば
"h" inside words becomes silent: こいすれば
(except ha: かは->かわ->川)
Add some kanji: 恋 為れば
Finally, it also uses archaic grammar: 成りにけり. You can look up にけり in a dictionary: [過去・詠嘆の意を表す]…てしまった(のだなあ)。
You may want to read the linked wikipedia article about hentaigana toritobe provided.
Today, kana are standardized, and there is an official kana for each syllable. れ is from 礼. I would argue that it is not helpful to consider some of those glyphs from that image as kanji, otherwise you would have to say that the first line should be 己比寸連波. But only the standard kana are encoded in unicode/sjis, so 連 is used to represent that kana.
What may give problems as well is that it is not written in modern Japanese (the 古今和歌集 was written more than one millenium ago). There were no dokuten, so が would be written か&c., some sound changes have changed some words in modern Japanese, so you might not recognize them immediately.
Take the first line: こひすれは
Add dakuten: こひすれば
"h" inside words becomes silent: こいすれば
(except ha: かは->かわ->川)
Add some kanji: 恋 為れば
Finally, it also uses archaic grammar: 成りにけり. You can look up にけり in a dictionary: [過去・詠嘆の意を表す]…てしまった(のだなあ)。
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #8
Right, I can just about see that. By "more than actually appears in the picture" I meant the next part. Because you quoted more, I therefore gathered that you must have recognised it as a known text.
I'm glad that not even natives can read it, though...! If I spent the rest of my life studying, I don't think I could ever fathom that cursive writing.
- 22 Feb 2008
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- 4,926
Yeah, the poems are well-known ones. I don't remember all the phrases of them exactly, but probably have read it (more exactly to say, forced to read in a class) in high school or sometime thereabouts.
I completely agree with Mike-san's opinion "The really interesting part, though, is contemplating the idea that at the time it was written probably most people with a modest education could have read it quite easily" in the following post.
Kana handwriting
I completely agree with Mike-san's opinion "The really interesting part, though, is contemplating the idea that at the time it was written probably most people with a modest education could have read it quite easily" in the following post.
Kana handwriting
