Japan's education problems... is it the lack of critical thinking?

[Emoni]

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/inquiry/spr95/davidson.html

^Here is a start. Once again, from Glenski and what I posted on the very first post of this thread.

 

[caster51]

You may memorize math formulas, but those are based on a deeper theory that must be understood. You may memorize the first version of history and historical dates, but that is only the beginning and one often limited version of "so-called" history that must be analyzed and considered afterwards.
For a oversimplified example, of which I'm not expecting much of myself tonight, let me talk about bread.

nop I was majoring in math. It is common. it is not only your education

When you first learn to cook pretty much you look in a cook book, grab the ingredients, and follow the instructions. If you want to become better, you have to start thinking about WHY you use certain ingredients, and compare and contrast to other bread recipes. Later you may find that one tastes better than another type of bread, part of it can be your opinion, but if you truly want to make good bread, to become a master of bread bake'n, then you must dig deep and question each aspect and every ingredient and the effect, even if the previous recipe was created by Wolfgang Puck and he is telling you he'd be insulted if you even CONSIDERED questioning his super bread.

it is a common way.
what is a difference
that is why I need your Assumption from total investigation because it might be a just your impression.

if there is not, it is rude

 

[caster51]

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/inquir.../davidson.html

only that? you belive this old one as same way?
so you dont have a critical thinking about that?

That is one of our problems that most Japanese students abroad first have to face up to. I know a lot of Japanese students saying, "It's so difficult for me to discuss it because I haven't ever thought of this kind of things"

Also, what is worse, our ability of analysis or thinking deeply is totally paralyzed because of Japanese social condition which is regarded as "peaceful society" by many people.... even Japanese educational system doesn't encourage us to have our own ideas Otsubo, 1993

there is a conclusion at first, then they were looking for useless reasons..
what a lame? it is like Waiwai article.
if they understood it, why dont they do that as cocrete methods?
even if japanese education is the lack of critical thinking method, it had nothing to do with creativity.
i know american university system well.
it is difficult to graduate in Usa though it is easy to enter the university.
on the other hand , I said japanese university is four years vacation..to enter is difficult because of entrance exam..
american students study a lot more than Japanese in Jpn unversity.
because It is necessary to withdraw from school if the grade is bad.
i think it is clear that students in Us has a purpose to study.
teacher is also criticized by students...because of competition principle
teachers are not evaluated in Japan even if he did a good teaching or not
The improvement of scholastic attainments is a problem of the consideration of the individual in Japan.
if I want to get a good grade like an american way, it is a just reflection of my love of learning.
the company or industory demand the personality more than grade in Uni.
many company ask what you did outside school during 4 years of uni...
They dont evaluate about grade..

I think that student's seriousness is also different if becoming a very important factor when the grade is a corporate adoption.
the education has been entrusted to teacher's obligation and
conscience...
the lack of the critical thinking is not a problem at all.
they have enough ability of critical thinking.
I think a basic system in uni. is wrong at first because there is no competioion..
many student who is dropped out will be increase.
it becomes a social problem.

 

[Mars Man]

My investigation, caster 51 san, is surely as certain as yours, yet I have come to a different conclusion than you; it seems. As best as I can tell, you are still positioning yourself as accepting that it is true that the majority of the process and procedure of the education system in Japan contains an adequate degree of critical thought delivery within itself.

Is it not that by doing so, you are simply reflecting a satisfaction with the system status quo? Being satisfied in and of itself will not necessarily produce the frame of mind required to test the system for potential improvement.

However, please do keep in mind that I, for one, am not here to persist in trying to convince you of better. I will, in the meantime, and in my own way, through my own channels, work (however so little result it may immediately lead to) so as to give a wake up call against the mediocracy and stagnacy of just going along with what has come before without testing it.

 

[Emoni]

"Loyalty to petrified opinion never broke a chain or freed a human soul -- and never will." Mark Twain

 

[Glenski]

i know american university system well.
it is difficult to graduate in Usa though it is easy to enter the university.

You don't know American university well. It's not that hard to graduate.

teachers are not evaluated in Japan even if he did a good teaching or not

You don't even know your own country's system! What are all those evaluation forms at the end of the semester about? Student services comes in on last day of class, five minutes later, the survey is finished. I get a copy of the results a month later. Moreover, this type of thing is on the increase, even in JHS and senior high.

 

[Elizabeth]

If anything, I'd imagine a high-context, minimalist approach to communication would foster greater creativity and imagination as it leaves so much open to interpretation. The author of the article commented on the akward and sometimes detrimental results of miscommunication and the need to read-into things, but there are negatives to any issue. The positives on the other hand are quite impressive, but getting into 'why I love Japanese culture' would be going off-topic.

This life/work value change clash is also underway in Japan of course between a growing young corps of nonconformist, freedom loving individualists and a structured school/business society that is still too rigid to accomodate their potential.

But to their credit, even Japanese businesses recognize the old "company man" values of diligence, enthusiasm, a willingness to work hard, work as an end in itself and corporate loyalty etc are no long sufficient to meet the demands of global competition in a 21st Century economy driven by innovation and new ideas.

So the new kind of highly desired employees today are graduates with qualities to make them a 'knowledge' worker such as autonomy of character, ability to exercise independent thought/judgement/problem solving, initiative etc -- in Japanese this socially acceptable, nonthreatening strain of individualism is labeled "kosei." In contrast to the reckless selfishness of Western-style "kojin" (excessive focus on personal freedom and human rights) which, if left unchecked, could easily threaten not only loyalty to the firm but the entire bedrock of social order on which the county has been molded for fifty years.

The dilemma that exists for government, the Ministry of Education in particular, then, is how to introduce curricula designed to improve communication and analytical/critical thinking skills among students without damaging what is left of a societal fabric, of the traditional ways of living and thinking engineered by a conservative establishment.

 

[pipokun]

...
When you first learn to cook pretty much you look in a cook book, grab the ingredients, and follow the instructions. If you want to become better, you have to start thinking about WHY you use certain ingredients, and compare and contrast to other bread recipes.
...

I know what you mean in the above post, but it is also the reality that you need some interesting legalization such as the Cheeseburger bill in the country where you can see much more people with their critical mindset than in Japan.

I cannot judge if the lack of critical thinking in Japan really matters with few evidences such as the lack of debate in English or sleeping students as Glenski claimed. It is more plausible that Belgian kids called American kids stupid in the John Stossel's program.

*snip*
One way to solve the obesity is simple that you cook more at home, not easy ready-made frozen dishes. Avoiding bread does work, for you need something more to eat bread.

 

[Elizabeth]

I
I cannot judge if the lack of critical thinking in Japan really matters with few evidences such as the lack of debate in English or sleeping students as Glenski claimed. It is more plausible that Belgian kids called American kids stupid in the John Stossel's program.
*snip*

Whether anyone here can judge the need is irrelevant. Enabling students to develop their natural gifts, learn and think by themselves, make decisions independently, acquire ways to solve problems better, etc. clearly matters (or at least did) to the Ministry of Education. It not, why would they have introduced the so-called 'Sogo-tekina gakushu no jikan' (Period of Integrated Study) in 2002 with the goal of easing traditional fact-cramming teaching methods ?


"Content for all children to study in common is carefully selected, and each school is allowed to devise plans to give children enough time to think, to provide supplemental teaching individually, or to involve them in developing learning. It also substantiates the experiential and problem-solving approach to learning so that children can understand what they are learning with a feeling of reality. The aim is to enable children to learn basics and fundamentals, and to develop "Academic Ability", including natural gifts and faculties to find assignments, learn, and think by themselves, make decisions independently, take actions, and solve problems better. Contents of revisions in the new Courses of Study will be explained in detail below."


Japanese Government Policies in Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology 2002 [2.3.1]

 

[pipokun]

...
It not, why would they have introduced the so-called 'Sogo-tekina gakushu no jikan' (Period of Integrated Study) in 2002 with the goal of easing traditional fact-cramming teaching methods ?

You showed us a good example that Japan has their own kaizen activity in education.
But ironically, the kaizen under the name of relaxed education has boosted more parents to choose private schools for better education.

 

[Glenski]

Whether anyone here can judge the need is irrelevant. Enabling students to develop their natural gifts, learn and think by themselves, make decisions independently, acquire ways to solve problems better, etc. clearly matters (or at least did) to the Ministry of Education. It not, why would they have introduced the so-called 'Sogo-tekina gakushu no jikan' (Period of Integrated Study) in 2002 with the goal of easing traditional fact-cramming teaching methods ?

And six years later, what has changed?

 

[caster51]

Creativity...
Creativity - Wikipedia
Invention
Invention - Wikipedia...

I think flexible thinking is more important
antway ,according to various aphorism of inventer, what we need is passion,enthusiasm...

Edison did not go to school? I like it

 

[gaijinalways]

I think flexible thinking is more important
antway ,according to various aphorism of inventer, what we need is passion,enthusiasm...

You need the passion to make it a reality. Great thinking alone doesn't change things, people need to act as well.

The other posters have been trying to point out to you that applying critical thought does mean being flexible and being willing to examine various arguments. Too often my students can't tell me why they do something (basically, they have never thought about it).

A recent story comes to mind. My student was asked"Which do you prefer, a Japanese breakfast or a Western breakfast?". He answered, "I prefer a Japanese breakfast" and added, when pressed, "..because I am Japanese!"

This basically doesn't answer the why part of the question. There could be some good reasons for why he may prefer a Japanese breakfast (health, cost, habit, what his mother usually makes, etc..), but trying to imply that because he is Japanese, he must prefer Japanese food is answering without deep thought.

Let's try another one from the realm of service.

A Japanese American comes to Japan. He speaks some Japanese, but his mindset is very American. He goes into a family styled chain restaurant, and sees on the menu that they have gratin and hamburgers. So, he calls the waiter over and orders a cheesburger (an item not on the menu). The waiter says "That will be very difficult as it is not on the menu." The customer tries to explan, you have hamburgers and you have cheese, what's difficult about it? Finally the manager is called over, the waiter explained about this problem with an 'impossible' order, and the manager also tells the customer, "I'm sorry we can't do it"

Okay says the customer, let me have a side order of gratin, and please put the cheese on the side, and give me a hamburger. The waiter and the manager breathe a sigh of relief.

The order comes, the customer scoops up the cheese on the side, slaps it on his hamburger, and eats it.

Still think critical thinking is not needed?

Have you heard the expression 'think outside the box'? The waiter and the manager couldn't do it, couldn't bring an item not on the menu. The manual doesn't provide for that situation. In an American restaurant that would be 'a no brainer.' They'd tell you, "Okay, we'll put the cheese on it, but we have to charge you extra for the cheese."

 

[caster51]

A recent story comes to mind. My student was asked"Which do you prefer, a Japanese breakfast or a Western breakfast?". He answered, "I prefer a Japanese breakfast" and added, when pressed, "..because I am Japanese!

iy means it is accustomed to eat.

I ask a qustion to my kid" why do you hate cucumber"
cucumber is good for health.
my kids said " I hate it. there is no reason... this tast is bad for me"
why do you choose this guy as a husboud?
why dont you chose other guy?
i think there are many reasons depened on her though both guys have a good points
which do you like "apple or banana"?
I think it is the same even if either is basically chosen because future is unknown.
You only have to return when wrong as soon as possible.

sometime we dont need a reason. just do it if you made a choice.

 

[anomouse]

The cheese thing has nothing to do with critical thinking.

You can do one thing in one country, doesn't make it right in another.
It simply is not the way things are done.
Different cultural/social norms in different countries.
Just accept them as they are.
When you are in another country, do not demand another person to think and act like you do, just try to think outside of your own cultural box.

 

[Emoni]

anomouse

I have to say I have seen absurdity to the point of extreme that the above poster showed with the "Cheese" example. I've dealt with it in both America and Japan, and it is simply the situation and degree that differs. My God, it was a nightmare to simply pay a phone bill after I had canceled my service as well as cancel internet service in Japan due to the "inability to think outside the box" strict rule set and they should be thankful they got paid still!

You can claim "cultural differences" and "cultural acceptance" but there is a degree of thinking beyond strict rules that are often blindly accepted. The "Cheese" example could just as well happen in, for example, China. It is not limited to Japan. It is not limited to any country.

While very abstract, the Cheese example DOES show aspects of critical thinking skill. Here's the hint, think of the way the man ordering handled the situation over all compared to the restaurant.

 

[Mars Man]

I would have to say here, that we'd have a very difficult time providing argumentation for the proposition that the 'cheeseburger' example is inaccurate. There is a matter which is even above and beyond cultural/social sub-groups and major groups, and that is the universal set. Logic and critical thought processes are universally rooted to the far largest degree thus they hold regardless of social/cultural breakdown.

This thread does focus on the education system here in Japan, and the proposition for the lack of critical thinking being taught (and/or applied) in it--although it is true that such can be learned outside the formal education system (as I have pointed to a number of times in a number of ways) as caster51 has finally also shown acceptance of. Let's keep it to the formal, public (and to a degree private) educational system, please.

 

[tokapi]

"inability to think outside the box" strict rule set

1 Taiwanese acquaintance worked for a Japanese bank subsidiary in Taipei,she too once said to me that they just don't ever bent the rules ( never ! ).

We both debated whether it's corporate culture or education-related.

 

[anomouse]

It has nothing to do with critical thinking.
It's their prerogative not to take orders not on the menu.
Japanese restaurants ensure that customers orders are taken correctly, and I understand that they don't want unnecessary complexity.
Now back on topic!

 

[pipokun]

Mallory is famously said to have replied to the question "why do you want to climb Mt. Everest?" with the retort: "because it is there", which has been called "the most famous four words in mountaineering".
George Mallory - Wikipedia

"Which do you prefer, a Japanese breakfast or a Western breakfast?". He answered, "I prefer a Japanese breakfast" and added, when pressed, "..because I am Japanese!"

The Mallory's words does sound more poetic than the eikaiwa student of gaijinalways, but the logic itself in both of them sounds similar to me. At least, they didn't necessarily answer the questions.

About the burger stuff, it might all the same after you digest hamburger and cheese from gratin, but the restaurant just though the quality of cheese burger was different from the simple-minded person like your friend thought.

Still think critical thinking is not needed?

Just use your great critical mindset to find a person, if any, who claims it here or in your daily life.

 

[Glenski]

Despite a moderator's pleas to stay on topic, I see the last 3 posts are not. Time to shut down this thread, I think.

Whaddaya think, mods? This thread is going nowhere.

 

[gaijinalways]

my kids said " I hate it. there is no reason... this tast is bad for me"

That is a reason, he doesn't like the taste (just as I don't like the taste and smell of natto, healthy as it is).

Let's keep it to the formal, public (and to a degree private) educational system, please.

But Mars man, this is reflection of the education here, which continues after one joins a company. My student is a Japanese university student at a private university.

It's interesting though to see situational ethics applied here constantly, hence why often in Japan there are no absolute truths nor absolute good/bad. There is a logic system that is regularly used here, just not a Western logic system. You could say it is part Bushido, part Confucianism IMO.

It has nothing to do with critical thinking.
It's their prerogative not to take orders not on the menu.
Japanese restaurants ensure that customers orders are taken correctly, and I understand that they don't want unnecessary complexity.
Now back on topic!

But I would say it does. I don't think it was that complex of an order, adding cheese, which they already had to a hamburger.

Another example comes to mind in a pasta restaurant, Japanese style. I was ordering a Carbonara, which they like to put a raw egg on 'at that restaurant'. I had just recently recovered from being sick from a spoiled raw egg that was used in another restaurant. My wife asked them not to use it. They refused, saying I could push it the side. Think about it, by not using the egg, they save money (I didn't ask for a discount), yet they refused to do it. Plus they save the time cracking the egg open at the end.

I suppose you could chalk it up to 'cultural' logic, but this also doesn't sound like a 'winner' for customer service.

At least, they didn't necessarily answer the questions.

But Mallory did answer the question. For a mountaineer, that would be an answer. Why else climb mountains unless you are;

-paid to do so
-for honor of your nation
- to rescue someone
-because you can't resist a challenge

You can see where a Japanese eating a Japanese breakfast doesn't quite fit in those first three categories nor would it be much of a challenge.

Now a little more back on topic, why isn't this taught here in the schools? It seems like Japan often has focused on keeping harmony and a public that follows rather than leads. Arguments are often emotional ones here, not logical ones. It is more difficult to introduce logical arguments to a society that on the face of it doesn't use them. You don't see a lot of 'Question Authority' bumper stickers here. You do see a lot of strange English language messages on Tshirts, but that would be another thread.


Thanx for the links Glenski, I read all of those this afternoon. interesting reading.

 

[Mars Man]

Some worthwhile points made there, and, as far as I can reason, valid enough. That said, it is nevertheless true that this thread was to have had a more narrow scope--namely that of whether critical thinking was a root of any percieved 'lacking' in the Japanese formal education system as opposed to creative thinking. ①

I apologize if any see the structured polemical style I demand, a cramping of style; yet hope that there will be learning, even, in that. We have to argue in line with the theme, and we have to present within those bounds. I will leave this thread open yet, in hopes that it work itself out correctly here. Please, everybody, let's keep it on-topic from now on.

In the school system, the pressure to instill within the very soul of the students (and I'm talking about 1-12 here, especially) the acceptance that authority is correct, is not to be challenged, is itself a deterrent to critical thinking process. Is it possible that this helps set the stages for a mental ceiling on how far polemical thinking can go?

I presently reason that it is. Critical thinking will help reach a more universal equilibrium on the philosophically nuanced understandings of benefit for the whole, above and beyond 'old world thinking.' To get the ball rolling, it must be presentable in the Japanese public education system. (and of course, again, even outside of it, actually)




① While it is true, gaijinalways san, that it is largely a reflection of the formal education system that we see in the social operation at large, it is clearly going beyond the bounds of the theme of the thread--except to provide a working description of critical thought process. (so enough is enough there, and arguing on that further goes off-topic)

 

[Emoni]

A few sources that I found with a simple search recently on yahoo. (Oddly enough, THIS THREAD is on the first page of a yahoo search under critical thinking Japan)

http://www.dyske.com/index.php?view_id=814

ejcjs - Critical Thinking and Modern Japan: Conflict in the Discourse of Government and Business

Both brush over a bit of the "controversial/anti-societal norm" aspects of critical thinking which I think could have a large connection why critical thinking in general is at opposition with a more conformist based educational system/society. Of course, speaking in generalizations here and nothing applies to everything.

 

[Glenski]

I have not read all of the first link, but it is amazing to see how the writer (presumably a Japanese) slams an EFL university instructor (whom I know a little) for writing an article on critical thinking in Japan. The amazing part is, he slams the guy for what he perceives are negative opinions of Japanese's critical thinking and for how he made his questionairre, yet the instructor actually says this (emphasis is mine):

"Asian learners of English are often characterized by constructs which claim that they lack an individual voice and critical thinking skills. In addition, it is said that unlike their Western counterparts, because of collectivist and hierarchical tendencies, they hesitate to express adversarial views. These behavioural patterns are claimed to be reflected in the rhetorical styles of Japanese learners when writing in English. Contrary to these claims, in an attitude survey of 70 Japanese undergraduates, the present study found little hesitation to voice opinions counter to authority figures. Moreover, participants possessed a firm grasp of elements of critical thinking. These results suggest that traditional constructs describing Asian students may no longer be accurate. "

Weird.