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Japanese Royal Tomb Opened to Scholars for First Time

Tokis-Phoenix

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"A rare visit by archaeologists to a fifth-century imperial tomb offers hope that other closely guarded graves in Japan might soon be open to independent study.

This month a group of 16 experts led by the Japanese Archaeological Association released results from their February visit inside Gosashi tomb.

The event marked the first time that scholars had been allowed inside a royal tomb outside of an official excavation led by Japan's Imperial Household Agency.

Archaeologists have been requesting access to Gosashi tomb and other imperial sites since 1976, in part because the tombs date to the founding of a central Japanese state under imperial rule.

But the agency has kept access to the tombs restricted, prompting rumors that officials fear excavation would reveal bloodline links between the "pure" imperial family and Koreaツ―or that some tombs hold no royal remains at all.

Although the team's visit didn't lay any of those issues to rest, experts celebrated it as a first step toward expanded access to the mysterious tombs";


Full story;


"Other experts have suggested that the hesitation is because courtiers and conservatives fear excavation will uncover blood ties between the supposedly pure Japanese imperial line and the Asian mainland, specifically Korea.

But Walter Edwards, professor of Japanese studies at Tenri University in Nara, argues that the "Korean bones" issue is a red herring.

"Blood links between Korea and the Japanese imperial family are documented from the eighth century," he said.

"Even the current emperor [Akihito] has said that he has Korean ancestry." Edwards suggests that the agency's attitude has more to do with trying to maintain the imperial family's dignity."



(sarcastic): Oh no, Japan might just have to openly face up to the fact that its general public knows its precious royal bloodlines are tainted with inferior Korean blood! Shock horror!

Seriously, though, I think it's ridiculous that Japan is so reluctant to let experts thoroughly examine its precious royal tombs- people don't even know for sure if there are actually even royal skeletons at all in some of these tombs!

It's very dodgy that Japan is so reluctant to let people determine for themselves what exactly these tombs contain. I smell the whiff of racial prejudice against Koreans. The large majority of Japanese originally came to the island from Korea and China- if Japan faces up to this fact more, then it'll have to uncomfortably admit that the people like Koreans & Chinese it holds grudges against actually helped found the country and its royalty as we know it.

Let's all hope that the cash-strapped Imperial Household Agency becomes even more skint, so it's forced to open these tombs to experts for full examinations. These might be private graves of the Royal family, but they are also the graves of the rulers of the past, rulers who Japanese people lived under and whose society was founded by- surely the Japanese general public has the right to be certain of what is in these tombs exactly and to learn more about them in general?
 
Archaeologists have been requesting access to Gosashi tomb and other imperial sites since 1976, in part because the tombs date to the founding of a central Japanese state under imperial rule.

Gosashi tomb in western Japan's Nara Prefecture is revered as the resting place of Empress Jingu, the semi-legendary wife of the country's 14th emperor.

http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action=fullnews&id=53990


It has been rumored Empress Jingu ( 神功天皇 ) was shaman regent 卑弥呼. This excavation should clarify any validity of her actual identity, hopefully put the issue to rest.



I suspect it's politically motivated, as Japan seeks to cement a closer military alliance with its former colony.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080428/tap-skorea-japan-military-d1078a1.html


Oh, maybe a revival of mutual ancestry theory 日鮮同祖論, which was propagated for the annexation back in the early 20th century.:?
 
The large majority of Japanese originally came to the island from China

とにかく日本人は多民族が移民した混血民族なんですよ.

Japanese are a mixed people,some ancient Torai-jins 帰化民 were Chinese-origin 秦氏,西文氏,東漢氏 became members of Japanese aristocracy 豪族.

I've met Japanese nationals of 秦氏 ancestry openly acknowledged their Torai-jin heritage in Japanese language forum.

秦氏の末裔苗字には,特色があると言われます.Notable surnames of 秦氏 descendants,羽田 - 畑 - 端 - 波田 - 川勝 etc.

大避神社 - Wikipedia
 
Tokapi...do you realize how pointless and annoying it is to have the sentences switch from English to Japanese to English ect ect ect?
The majority of the people on this site can't read Japanese so why don't you just write the whole thing in English?


....sorry for being off topic but, dang, that gets annoying after awhile.
 
if Japan faces up to this fact more, then it'll have to uncomfortably admit that the people like Koreans & Chinese it holds grudges against actually helped found the country.

In grade school,Japanese learn about Torai-jins ( 渡来人 ) from those two places you mentioned ( source: 史実では「中国と朝鮮半島から来た渡来系民族」と小学生でも知っている事ですが )

It's a myth that Japanese population mostly descended from those 2 peoples or these immigrants.The fact is the native Wa-jins have always been the majority.

Yes,Wa-jins originally came from Asia continent's NE region but they were of different tribes.The main reason NE Asians are DNA related because of a few shared " origins ".According to one online reading source,a Japanese sholar quoted " Torai-jins contributed to 10% of modern Japanese gene pool ".

* A related Jref thread on Wa-jins ( 倭人: Japanese )

ヒ彖人(wa-jin, Japanese)
 
it is sure many of japanese came from the direction of the chinese continental. even kid know...
however,it is not guessed at all that they came from korea , china by this tomb and relic opend
 
the agency has kept access to the tombs restricted

this tomb is basically a possession of the imperial families though It should open to public.
I hate to open my ancester's tomb even though it is said for an academic investigation
 
Hm well at the end of the day, i am sure that Chinese and Koreans made up a lot of the immigrants of the early Japanese in Japan, and i am sure there are many other countries people who also contributed to the early populations of non-Ainu Japanese.

ps: Tokapi it would be very helpful if you could avoid using Japanese writing and stuff when explaining your opinions in threads like these since i really cannot understand Japanese writing at all .
 
It is really interesting to know what Frederick II did in the past, and probably we can learn many things from the past, but I know it would be ridiculous if I'd claim the Holy Roman Emperor should be pardoned right now.

I know it is the Vatican's.
 
i am sure that Chinese and Koreans made up a lot of the immigrants of the early Japanese in Japan, and i am sure there are many other countries people who also contributed to the early populations of non-Ainu Japanese.

that has nothing to do with this tomb because of 6th century.

there were many korean Refugees at that time.

many document at that time tell korea peninsula was dominated by wa-jin

for example, there were so many Japanses in manchuria and korea before war.
after that they came back as Refugees....
silla's king was a Wajin..
many kudara's king were a hostage in Japan.

there are many Japanese castles in korea.
however, it is not said japanese ppl came from korea
 
Hm well at the end of the day, i am sure that Chinese made up a lot of the immigrants of the early Japanese in Japan.

> Tokis

Only if you count Wa-jins ( ( 倭人: Japanese ) as " Chinese " for being from present day China's NE otherwise the truth is NO. Modern " northern " Han-Chinese population have nomadic ancestors same as some of those tribes left for Japan & the other place,but it only means NE Asians have shared " origins ".

Chinese historic chronicles only documented 5 mini-migrations of individuals left for Japonic islands.Pre-modern time,one last notable person was ( 南宋 ) Southern Song Dynasty scholar founded a branch of Confucius school 朱子学 in Japan but he returned home.And,I don't believe the other place flooded Japan by the milions as they would like people to think.If it's true,how come Japanese and them don't speak the same language ??

Chinese refugees and immigrants flooded the other place not Japan during social upheavals or war conflicts,that's why they have " 30% northern Han-Chinese origin " which now try to deny.

The word Chinese is a modern construct,those continental ancients referred themselves as subjects of named kingdom or specific dynastic period not " 中國人 Chinese ".
 
What?!

No, according to the Out-Of-Africa model, it was Africans who helped build the country, as well as yours. So, we are all Africans, basically.

 
if Japan faces up to this fact more, then it'll have to uncomfortably admit that the people like Koreans & Chinese it holds grudges against actually helped found its royalty as we know it.


it's completely hogwash ...

I am someone more incline to believe Yamato Dynasty ( 大和朝廷 ) was a pure indigenous development of native Wa-jins ( 倭人: Japanese ) not foreign origin.Back then in need of sophisticated Chinese culture,the Yamato Court had welcoming red carpet to Torai-jins as advisors with some awarded nobility titles and such.

Chinese Wei-Zhi ( 魏志倭人伝 ) recorded " direct " contacts between Chinese dynasties & Wa Japan earlier on & uninterupted military,cultural,diplomatic contacts with ancient kingdoms of the other place.No mentioning of language & cultural & ethnicity of collective Wa-jins 倭人 related to natives there.I don't think they were the same people,otherwise Japanese & their language would be intelligible ( don't you think ?? ).
 
It's not Japanese not know their continental Asian roots,Fukuzawa Yukichi's " Leaving Asia Theory 福澤諭吉の脱亜論 " led Japanese out of Asia mentally.

Fukuzawa Yukichi - Wikipedia

Since then,the Japan nation and Japanese have strange dedication to be part of Western World at all costs.Nowadays,Japanese children are indoctrinate to look up to Western people from early age.This is how some Japanese develope the so-called " Hakujin Complex '.

* a Jref thread on Meiji Diplomacy

diplomacy of Meiji
 
Silla's king was a Wa-jin..


Interesting point ....

Lee Myung-Bak ( 李明博 ) is a Japanese by birth recently elected president of that country.

Just curious,if Japan can record it as Japanese ruled there on discovery of " Japanese bones " among their presidents in future archaelogical excavation project ...

Lee Myung-bak - Wikipedia
 
A rare visit by archaeologists to a fifth-century imperial tomb


According to Records of Three Kingdoms ( 三国志 ),Emperor of Wei ( 魏文帝-A.D. 187-A.D.226 ) bestowed a golden seal 「親魏倭王 」 to Yamatai's shaman queen named Himiko ( 卑彌呼 ),it's still yet to be discovered in Japan.Maybe,it's buried with her inside this imperial tomb if she was really Empress Jingu ( 神功天皇 ).

Records of the Three Kingdoms - Wikipedia

曹丕 - 维基百科,自由的百科全书

http://www.buy.com/prod/himiko-and-...haeology-history-and/q/loc/106/204167011.html


Japanese only located 「 漢委奴国王 」 golden deal presented to Nakoku 奴国 ( Hakata-ku 博多区 of present day Fukuoka City 福岡市 ).

Nakoku - Wikipedia
 
I would like to present some solid historical facts.

Nashime ( 難升米 ) and Toshi Gori ( 都市牛利 ) were 2 envoys dispatched to the Chinese imperial court by shaman Queen Himiko ( 卑弥呼 ) of the Yamatai Kingdom.No entry in any Chinese history chronicle indicated they spoke a language identical to the native populations of that NE Asian peninsular country.

Records of Three Kingdoms 三国志 ( dated 189AD-280AD ) documented similar spoken tongues of Puyo, Koguryo, Eastern Ye & Okcho. Additionally, these tribal kingdoms shared the same ethnic root and branched out from *Yemaek (穢貊; Huimo is the Chinese romanisation of these 2 kanji). Those people originally migrated from China's Shandong peninsula and northern Hebei province 3500 years ago.

* read post#188 in Jref thread on "origin of Japanese"

https://jref.com/showthread.php?t=742&page=8
 


The Chinese helped male the Japanese royalty as we know it today largely in the sense of its cultural influence;

"The emperor was thought to possess magical powers and to converse with the gods. It was therefore considered beneath him to become involved in the day-to-day running of the country. This was left to ministers and advisors. An exception was the period between the 7th and 8th centuries during which several emperors tried to bring the regional clans under central Imperial control. The first emperor to establish such direct imperial rule, modelled after the Chinese Tang dynasty, was Emperor Tenji who ruled between 661 and 672. Later during the Nara Period (710~794) Prince Shotoku, son of the Empress Suiko, created Japan's first constitution and established Buddhism as the country's dominant religion."

"At the beginning of the Heian Period (794~1185), Emperor Kammu established a new capital in Kyoto, a city designed based on the Chinese capital."


"Around 400-300 BCE, the Yayoi people began to enter the Japanese islands, intermingling with the Jōmon. Most modern scholars argue that the Yayoi emigrated from the southern Korean Peninsula to northern Kyūshū, though it has also been proposed that they came from southeastern China. [17] The Yayoi brought wet-rice farming and advanced bronze and iron technology to Japan. Although the islands were already abundant with resources for hunting and dry-rice farming, Yayoi farmers created more productive wet-rice paddy field systems. This allowed the communities to support larger populations and spread over time, in turn becoming the basis for more advanced institutions and heralding the new civilisation of the succeeding Kofun Period."

"Han Chinese and Southeast Asian ethnic groups were originally thought to be the origin of the modern Japanese ethnic group. Recently, however, both Japanese and non-Japanese academics have predominantly argued that the Japanese are descended from both the Yayoi, who emigrated from the Korean Peninsula, and the long-established native Jōmon people, with whom the Yayoi intermarried. A clear consensus has not been reached."

"The Japanese language has a tripartite writing system based upon Chinese characters."

"The arrival of Buddhism in Japan is ultimately a consequence of the first contacts between China and Central Asia, which occurred with the opening of the Silk Road in the 2nd BCE, following the travels of Zhang Qian between 138 and 126 BCE, which culminated with the official introduction of Buddhism in China in 67 CE. Historians generally agree that by the middle of the 1st century, the religion had penetrated to areas north of the Huai River. Buddhism then made its way to Korea from China, and finally to Japan around the 5th century CE."

"Beginning in the Nara period, painting, calligraphy, and sculpture flourished under strong Confucian and Buddhist influences from Korea and China. Among the architectural achievements of this period are the Hōryū-ji and the Yakushi-ji, two Buddhist temples in Nara Prefecture. After the cessation of official relations with the Tang dynasty in the ninth century, Japanese art and architecture gradually became less influenced by China."

Japanese people - Wikipedia


From what i have read, the Yayoi people came from both southern China and Korea- also from what i have read, modern Japanese as we know them today are largely descended from the Yayoi people who immigrated to Japan in ancient times- although the Jomon people obviously make up an important part of modern Japanese heritage, they were most thought to resemble the Ainu and the Ainu were certainly always pushed to the side by non-Ainu Japanese in history.

With the Chinese royalty helping found Japan's royalty thing, it's certainly not complete hogwash as the Japanese copied and were influenced a lot in Chinese royal society, like in the 7th and 8th centuries, during which several emperors tried to bring the regional clans under central Imperial control, which was a system modelled after the Chinese Tang Dynasty.
Japanese Calligraphy, painting, sculpture, religion, technology, and society, as well as the layout of important places in Japan, such as Kyoto, have been influenced by China throughout its long history, and people have also immigrated from regions around and within China since prehistoric times. To say that China has had no influence on Japanese royalty and its society is incorrect.
If you believe that modern Japanese today are largely descended from the Yayoi rather than the original Jomon people, then you must also accept that the Yayoi were largely made up of Koreans and Chinese people/people from East Asia ( East Asia - Wikipedia ) then you must accept that the large majority of Japanese originally came from Korea and China.
 
that has nothing to do with this tomb because of 6th century.


It does have something to do with the 6th century tomb since it is important to find out how much Korean and Chinese bloodlines have a part to play in Japanese Royalty- determining the ancestory/bloodlines of the skeleton/s buried in the tomb (if there are any) and who exactly they were is very important in understanding Japanese society and Royalty. Strong Chinese or Korean influences in the DNA of the individual/s in the tomb might help determine how much influence these countries had on each other in terms of intermarrying and politics etc- we may be able to find out new things.
So while this is just a 6th century Japanese royal tomb, it could shed important light on the origins of Japanese Royalty etc.
 
The first emperor to establish such direct imperial rule, modelled after the Chinese Tang dynasty, was Emperor Tenji who ruled between 661 and 672.

I do know Japanese modeled their ancient capitol on Chang'an 長安 ( present day Xi'an 西安 )

Chang'an - Wikipedia

There were small Tang neighborhoods along coastal Japan during Nara period,a few modern Japanese could trace ancestry to those " Chinese ".

Still,ancient Chinese immigrants were in the minority.Today's half-million Chinese population ( local borns,legal immigrant status,illegal aliens etc ) is largest ever in Japan history,me thinks.

Han-Chinese flooded Taiwan island not Japan by countless thousands and a few millions over a course of the past 500 years.
 
There were small Tang neighborhoods along coastal Japan during Nara period,a few modern Japanese could trace ancestry to those " Chinese ".

those chinese were not han chinese
it was not han chinese dynastry
I think they were related with Nestorianism
Nestorianism
Nestorianism - Wikipedia

so there are some Nestorianism's temples in Japan
サービス終了のお知らせ

The first emperor to establish such direct imperial rule, modelled after the Chinese Tang dynasty, was Emperor Tenji who ruled between 661 and 672

i think it has a nothing to do with that because of ise jingu
it has already started in Asuka era
 
how much Korean and Chinese bloodlines have a part to play in Japanese

I don't understand.
even though it has a part.,,, most Japanese has a part..
it is only possible to guess uncertainty
......
while this is just a 6th century Japanese royal tomb, it could shed important light on the origins of Japanese Royalty etc.

i think it has nothing to do with the origin..because there are many tombs before nintoku one since 3rd century
I think the refugees of the Qin Dynasty were key persons....
They were not also Han Chinese



I don't know. Only Japanese and Tibetan are so similar in Asia
Korean does not have Y chromosome D2

It is said the YAP type, and D system is a companion in E system widely distributed in the Mediterranean sea coast and the Middle East, and a very old system in Y gene.
It is thought that Asian O system is widely distributed in the entire region in east Asia, and D system remained only in Japan of the island nation and Tibet in mountains.
The D2 system is Ainu 88%, the Okinawa people 56%, mainland Japan 50~56% (Even the reference
is 33% in Tibet and 0% in Korea.



anyway
it is possible to guess
according to nihonshoki and chinese document, they were not from Korea or China at that time.
if guestion is japanese origine, they might have come from the direction of chinese continental, and Polynesia
 
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It does have something to do with the 6th century tomb since it is important to find out how much Chinese bloodline have a part to play in Japanese Royalty-

A former Japanese prime minister is a direct offsping of Han-Chinese origin ( 秦氏 ) Hata clan.He did nothing to ease diplomatic tensions between Japan & China.

Tsutomu Hata - Wikipedia

So far,I haven't read any Hata ( 秦氏 ) or 西文氏 & 東漢氏 married into Yamato Royal House,except a 6th century reigned Japanese emperor was assassinated by Yamatoaya no Ataikoma ( 東漢直駒 ) of Torai-jin 東漢氏 heritage.
 
( 秦氏 ) is not Han-Chinese origin
shimazu clan is also hata..
their crest is ...
the ancient document in awa island said" they were from over silk road


oops it has a nothing to do with that
 
This Japanese wiki page explains Hata clan ( 秦氏 ) originally came from China.

秦氏 - Wikipedia

It's ( 秦氏 ) recorded in Shinsen-Syoujiroku ( 新撰姓氏録 ) as one of 163 Han-Chinese origins ( 漢系163氏 ).

新撰姓氏録 - Wikipedia
 
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