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"Japanese McDonald's Makes Fun of White People" by Keane Ng

Dogen Z

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Nothing wrong with McD CM

I don't understand why anyone has gotten excited about the commercial, there's nothing offensive about it. A slightly geeky dude is studying Japanese and has an accent. I think most Japanese would think he's admirable for trying even though he has a beginner's accent. McD was trying for a cute angle, not anything negative.

IMO, people who are offended by that CM should not have anything to do with Japan or Japanese for their own good. I find the criticism especially puzzling after reading much harsher ridicule of the way Japanese speak Engrish, and seeing negative Japanese stereotypes portrayed in major American movies such as Rising Sun and Gung Ho.
 
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pipokun

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Actually, I have been curious why so great difference is not so great in Japan.
I thought it is partly because Japan lacks Oath of Citizenship/Allegiance (You can find much exciting words in the US ver.) and/or clear-cut naturalization process, but this does not explain the similarities of yours, which still have to deal with the hate crime. You can say you cannot abolish it even after you have great minority treatments, but is it possible to say the homogeneous society must have more racially motivated crimes in some parts? I simply doubt it.

It may be because the similarities of yours in the past was so terrible that you had to learn from the past or because the similarities go more underground, something like gated city, or strict membership-only, money doesn't talk, rule like prestigious golf courses.

Then the future of the snack, honestly I don't know it. Some go, some do not.
 

bakaKanadajin

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actually, i have been curious why so great difference is not so great in japan.
I thought it is partly because japan lacks oath of citizenship/allegiance (you can find much exciting words in the us ver.) and/or clear-cut naturalization process, but this does not explain the similarities of yours, which still have to deal with the hate crime. You can say you cannot abolish it even after you have great minority treatments, but is it possible to say the homogeneous society must have more racially motivated crimes in some parts? I simply doubt it.

It may be because the similarities of yours in the past was so terrible that you had to learn from the past or because the similarities go more underground, something like gated city, or strict membership-only, money doesn't talk, rule like prestigious golf courses.

Then the future of the snack, honestly i don't know it. Some go, some do not.

欧米文化とその欧米の「メンバー国」について、
つまりアメリカ、イギリス、カナダ、オストラリアなど、
各国が大分違ってもお互いに同じに見えるのはまず戦争に勝った先進国であるのです。
しかも、ほとんどの国では英語が母語として喋られているのものだから
方言があってもけっこう自分の国と違う国の言葉が通じるし、
何かの連帯感があるのです。仮に日本以外の複数の先進国である国では
日本語が母語として話されていたら日本とその国との関係は
もっと強く感じられると思わないんですか。

日本では99%の国民が日本人であるので英語人とように
こういう連帯感があるのでしょうか。それには島国の心理のせいか
外国人に対しては不安があり、ほとんどの日本人、
特にその東京以外なところに住んでいる外国人に会ったことない人々は
その連帯感を通じて何となく外国人に対しての不安な気持ちを
無意識に持っている可能性があるんでしょうか。

I don't understand why anyone has gotten excited about the commercial, there's nothing offensive about it. A slightly geeky dude is studying Japanese and has an accent. I think most Japanese would think he's admirable for trying even though he has a beginner's accent. McD was trying for a cute angle, not anything negative.

IMO, people who are offended by that CM should not have anything to do with Japan or Japanese for their own good. I find the criticism especially puzzling after reading much harsher ridicule of the way Japanese speak Engrish, and seeing negative Japanese stereotyopes portrayed in major American movies such as Rising Sun and Gung Ho.

Offended.. no, not me anyway.
Calling a spade a spade for the sake of correctness, yes.
(Excuse the horrid pun)
 
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I regulary travel to attend conferences ect, never have I experienced what you have said bakaKanadajin. I have asked for directions many, many times, I have also been to my fair shares of "bars" ect and have never been turned down there either.

I have had one instance where I went up to a guy in the street to ask for directions and he instantly said that he does not speak english before I could say anything ,in english mind you. So said to him in Japanese " oh , that is a relief, b/c I can only speak Japanese... So could you tell me where this place is?" (pointing to a map I had) . He gladly helped me out and had a bit of a laugh with me too.

Why do I not experience these phenomenons that people keep speaking of?
 

Mikawa Ossan

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窶愿コ窶怒窶堙??堙坂?唸窶唸ツ≫?懌?堙個坂?倪?督ッ窶堋ェ窶愿コ窶怒ツ人窶堙??堋?窶堙ゥ窶堙娯?堙??ーpナ津ェツ人窶堙??堙ヲ窶堋、窶堙
窶堋ア窶堋、窶堋「窶堋、ヒ廣窶佚打?’窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥ窶堙娯?堙??堋オ窶堙・窶堋、窶堋ゥツ。窶堋サ窶堙ェ窶堙俄?堙坂?懌?。ツ坂?倪?堙個心窶板昶?堙娯?堋ケ窶堋「窶堋ゥ
ナ?Oツ坂?伉人窶堙俄?佚寂?堋オ窶堙??堙坂?「sヒ??窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ィツ、窶堙吮?堙??堙ア窶堙??堙娯?愿コ窶怒ツ人ツ、
窶愿≫?堙俄?堋サ窶堙娯?愬停?ケナセヒ?闇?O窶堙遺?堙??堋ア窶堙ォ窶堙可住窶堙ア窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥナ?Oツ坂?伉人窶堙俄?ーテッ窶堙≫?堋ス窶堋ア窶堙??堙遺?堋「ツ人ツ々窶堙
窶堋サ窶堙戸廣窶佚打?’窶堙ー窶凖岩?堋カ窶堙??ーツス窶堙??堙遺?堋ュナ?Oツ坂?伉人窶堙俄?佚寂?堋オ窶堙??堙娯?「sヒ??窶堙遺?ケCナスツ昶?堋ソ窶堙ー
窶督ウヒ?毒スツッ窶堙嫁スツ昶?堙≫?堙??堋「窶堙ゥ窶ーテや?拿ツ青ォ窶堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥ窶堙ア窶堙??堋オ窶堙・窶堋、窶堋ゥツ。
Personally, I always found people in the countryside to be much nicer than those in Tokyo. In Tokyo, I've never had people just start talking to me (in Japanese) about random (but nice) things. In the countryside, it was fairly common. I simply have never experienced what you suggest. I always felt that even though I may stick out like a sore thumb, I was looked upon as just another person in the country. Tokyo is one of the few places in Japan that I FELT like a foreigner. I really never got to like Tokyo much as a foreigner.
 

bakaKanadajin

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I've asked for directions many times as well and been nearly taken by the hand to the door of the place I wanted to go to. Don't get me wrong, in more situations than not the Japanese are accommodating and patient beyond belief. It's one of the reasons I love living here.

My only intention is to highlight the fact that personal experiences vary, racism is alive and well over here and that when it surfaces it's not simply an isolated thing as many (including myself previously) believe. Just my 2 cents.

The above experiences are more than made up for by the positive ones I've had. However that's another thread/topic, this threads more or less about racism and discrimination.
 

Chidoriashi

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Personally, I always found people in the countryside to be much nicer than those in Tokyo. In Tokyo, I've never had people just start talking to me (in Japanese) about random (but nice) things. In the countryside, it was fairly common. I simply have never experienced what you suggest. I always felt that even though I may stick out like a sore thumb, I was looked upon as just another person in the country. Tokyo is one of the few places in Japan that I FELT like a foreigner. I really never got to like Tokyo much as a foreigner.

I second this, it seems the bigger the city the more people tend to make me feel like a foreigner.
 

pipokun

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窶ーツ「窶「テ??「ツカ窶ーツサ窶堙??堋サ窶堙娯?ーツ「窶「テ??堙個「ニ陳?停?愴弛ツーツ坂?伉」窶堙俄?堙や?堋「窶堙?、
...
I simply get bored with the lenient usage of the "us and them" attitude.
In the context of xenophobia, racism, discrimination in Japan, you use it as a sharpened katana sword.
But in other stories like yours, "The West v. Others, you use it as an armor.

If the us-them attitude is really a part of evil, I am just wondering what your attitude produce?

You may say I lump different stories together, but I'd like you to explain your fair treatment between the red-light Snack right and human right violation in the due process, for I am a bit curious to know if the drinking culture in a red-right district represents the whole culture in certain country or not.

To stay on the topic here, does intolerable xenophobia created by the media affect your daily life?
 

bakaKanadajin

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I simply get bored with the lenient usage of the "us and them" attitude.
In the context of xenophobia, racism, discrimination in Japan, you use it as a sharpened katana sword.
But in other stories like yours, "The West v. Others, you use it as an armor.

If the us-them attitude is really a part of evil, I am just wondering what your attitude produce?

I'm sorry pipokun san I'm not 100% clear on this statement so I can't answer. I thought I'd already spoken to the point but it seems my answer wasn't sufficiently on-target so, I must be missing something.

You may say I lump different stories together, but I'd like you to explain your fair treatment between the red-light Snack right and human right violation in the due process, for I am a bit curious to know if the drinking culture in a red-right district represents the whole culture in certain country or not.

It would seem that your main point is that a handful of personal stories do not represent an entire culture. You have a point there but that's not quite the point I was trying to make, that's probably my fault for not being clear. Moreover you seem to think that in the redlight district anything goes and discrimination in those areas doesn't count in our discussion here.

First of all I wasn't directly stating that 'drinking culture' represnting a whole culture, rather I attempted to demonstrate that in those situations the service I received was different from the service Japanese people receive.

From there I wanted to say that this treatment stems from a self-admitted xenophobia and distrust of foreigners on the part of the Japanese, and that the homoegeneity and high-consensus in Japanese culture along with the number of incidents I've seen and heard about lead me to believe it's more than isolated, sporadic incidents. It comes from something underlying and omnipresent, which I attempted to (apparently failed to) allude to in Japanese.

So again, what is this underlying thing. Japan is and is not unique; it's homogeneity and treatment of foreigners is very similar to anglo-saxon culture in Western countries from past generations. From the point of view of globalization, in many ways Japan is decades behind Western countries socially as if looking at a time capsule. In Western countries, this decades-old us vs. them attitude them has been thinned out by waves of immigration and the social movements of the 60's and 70's. It still exists but certainly not the way it exists in Japan or the way it existed in past decades. So that's one more reason why I think that although obviously not each and every individual is responsibile, it's definitely a wider spread phenomenon than chance sporadic incidents.

Just my 2 cents. Still love Japan and by and large Japanese people are very kind to me. It's just that I won't concede to any notions of Japan being discrimination free or that the above commercial and other material like it is harmless and not indicative of something larger.

To stay on the topic here, does intolerable xenophobia created by the media affect your daily life?

I'd say it has the potential to, definitely.
 

pipokun

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Don't worry nobody says Japan is discrimination-free.

Let me use your analogy that Japan is similar to the 60's and 70's in those countries.
Supposing if we, of course including foreign population here, are surrounded in the 60's & 70's situation and your mindset and attitude have rather changed in those what you call developed nations, I don't know and have long been curious why few hate crimes in Japan. (You can exclude really serious or isolated ones such as assassination, racially-motivated murders in those countries then.

I can be a philosopher saying that the homogeneous mindset/attitude is much worse than the actual crime, but I can also say the homogeneity may be a reason to prevent it.

>kiritori>
Let me confirm that you use the term, homogeneity, not for racial description, but more for the similar way of thinking in Japan.
 

Mikawa Ossan

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So again, what is this underlying thing. Japan is and is not unique; it's homogeneity and treatment of foreigners is very similar to anglo-saxon culture in Western countries from past generations.
Sorry to nit-pick, but anglo-saxon culture is just a subset of Western culture.

And Japan historically is different, because the Brits are and have been used to foreign occupation for quite some time. Of course I refer to the Romans and Vikings. Japan's only experience with foreign invasion came from the Mongols, whose fleet was wiped out by a storm. Well, that and WWII of course.
 

bakaKanadajin

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Sorry to nit-pick, but anglo-saxon culture is just a subset of Western culture.

And Japan historically is different, because the Brits are and have been used to foreign occupation for quite some time. Of course I refer to the Romans and Vikings. Japan's only experience with foreign invasion came from the Mongols, whose fleet was wiped out by a storm. Well, that and WWII of course.

What you say is all true I doubt we're in disagreement there.
But all I mean is (I should have been more specific) that culture in say America or Canada in previous generations was predominantly white, English-speaking, Christian and of British or Irish descent, and there was a fairly high level of homogeneity. I'm probably mis-using the term but I just call really old-school white culture like that 'white anglosaxon' so excuse my incorrect terminology.

My point is just that the 'us and them' attitude towards foreigners, using North America from those times gone by as an example, is similar in my mind to the way Japan sees foreigners in this day and age, because Japan has maintained that high level of homogeneity and for various related reasons continues to be less socially/culturally penetrable for incoming minorities compared to Western countries.
 

Mikawa Ossan

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O.K. No problem.

Of course, I don't know what it's been like in Canada, but in America it used to be white people who were discriminated against when new waves of immigrants came in. (I am not ingoring slavery and the discrimination black people face(d), but that goes without saying, obviously.) The Italians, the Irish, Catholics, etc. This was when most people came to the U.S. from Europe, of course. It seems like the new guys always get discriminated against in America when they come in large enough numbers. But eventually that blows over and some new group gets discriminated against. That's the America I know.
 
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