Japanese Attrocities (Rape of Nanjing Comfort Women...) what is basis of denial?,

[Emoni]

You better study
Another useful academic books in English.
The Over All Pictures of Nanking Massacre in Feifei Li and Robert Sabella and Prrry Link ,eds., Nanking 1937 :Memory and Healing, （New York: M.E.Sharpe, 2001）.
Nanking Massacre as War Propaganda Keeping Still Alive, Mihail E. Ionescu ed.,War, Military and Media from Gutenberg to Today （Bucharest: Military Publishing House, 2004）.

Thank you, this is what I'm looking for and only this.

...however, after searching numerous book sites from amazon to abe books and also using Google, I'm not finding these books anywhere. Could you provide links? These are seeming to be very questionable from the start and should not be this difficult to simply locate.

Again, statements without strong proof on a subject like this mean next to nothing.

 

[Astroboy]

Thank you, this is what I'm looking for and only this.
...however, after searching numerous book sites from amazon to abe books and also using Google, I'm not finding these books anywhere. Could you provide links? These are seeming to be very questionable from the start and should not be this difficult to simply locate.

I know Japanese version only about fake photos things Amazon product ASIN 4794213816
I don't know the other. Maybe you better contact US National Congress Library or somewhere??

Probably somthing oposition about Nanking things are denied by Chinese-influenced media or politicians in your country???

Again, statements without strong proof on a subject like this mean next to nothing.

But I believe ..... even in the US judgement system, if it is proved that somebody uses fake proof, then all logics will be collapsed.

IF you are ordinary person with common sense, You better be suscipus about China rather than the other.

 

[Emoni]

I know Japanese version only about fake photos things Amazon product ASIN 4794213816I don't know the other. Maybe you better contact US National Congress Library or somewhere??
Probably somthing oposition about Nanking things are denied by Chinese-influenced media or politicians in your country???

Contacting the library of congress from California would be quite crazy. You stated these books are in English but I cannot find them at all. If you think these books don't exist in the US because of Chinese-influenced media then you are really making a major claim without any explanation.

Again, I'm curious how you are stating these as sources if they can't be found even on the largest of book sites. If someone presents proof, you have every right to question it but you must also support your claim if you state it is faked. Stating it shouldn't be accepted because it is faked without sources or explanation is illogical in any legal system, including Japan's.

Thank you for posting a few links but please consider the way you are posting on this thread. I know that is a lot to ask it seems, but I'm looking for supported evidence that exists (or at least can be FOUND). Not rants or unsupported opinions salted with insults.

 

[noyhauser]

As I said, Nanking things are not academically exploited yet as Chinese government hides many proof. I think you should go to China and discover the facts if possible.

We don't need Chinese sources, there is plenty available in Japan and the United States (the Smythe Study YOU cited)

The point is ...... you are telling so-called Nanking massacre based on uncertain or fake information.

Again, for the fifth time; The massacre happened; no academic would claim it didn't, and neither does the Askew or the Smythe studies linked above.

How many died? It is not clear, but at a minimum 27,000 civilians were killed, and approximately 30,000 to 80,000 Chinese prisoners of war. These are derived from Japanese war studies conducted by Kasahara and Hata (which the Askew claims is a "first hand source.")

I don't believe 300,000 died, but more likely 100,000 did.

 

[Emoni]

We don't need Chinese sources, there is plenty available in Japan and the United States (the Smythe Study YOU cited)

Again, for the fifth time; The massacre happened; no academic would claim it didn't, and neither does the Askew or the Smythe studies linked above.

How many died? It is not clear, but at a minimum 27,000 civilians were killed, and approximately 30,000 to 80,000 Chinese prisoners of war. These are derived from Japanese war studies conducted by Kasahara and Hata (which the Askew claims is a "first hand source.")

I don't believe 300,000 died, but more likely 100,000 did.

The number of killed in such events is impossible to narrow down perfectly, but from what I have seen less than 300,000 is much more likely like you stated. Number tend to vary a lot with the nuclear bomb deaths in Japan as well, Japan picking the high numbers and America going for the lower ones.

The argument on the numbers not being as high at stated (300,000) is a strong one, but that is a given. Same goes for the comfort women issue possibly.

 

[Astroboy]

How about this ????? published by University Press of America (UPA).

The Politics of Nanjing - An Impartial Investigation - by Kitamura Minoru

I hope you will find out the book coz published in your country in 2007.

I am very surprised that many Americans are quite biased and discussing the Naking things with limited source of information.

 

[noyhauser]

The number of killed in such events is impossible to narrow down perfectly, but from what I have seen less than 300,000 is much more likely like you stated. Number tend to vary a lot with the nuclear bomb deaths in Japan as well, Japan picking the high numbers and America going for the lower ones.
The argument on the numbers not being as high at stated (300,000) is a strong one, but that is a given. Same goes for the comfort women issue possibly.

Its quite possible that its as low as 60,000, depending on how many Chinese soldiers died and the circumstances of their death (especially how you account for them.) However the Rabe account, with newfound evidence in senior Japanese generals war diaries seem to suggest the number may be closer to 100k.

 

[Astroboy]

I could find it at amazon !!!
Amazon product ASIN 0761835792

 

[Astroboy]

We don't need Chinese sources, there is plenty available in Japan and the United States (the Smythe Study YOU cited)



Again, for the fifth time; The massacre happened; no academic would claim it didn't, and neither does the Askew or the Smythe studies linked above.

How many died? It is not clear, but at a minimum 27,000 civilians were killed, and approximately 30,000 to 80,000 Chinese prisoners of war. These are derived from Japanese war studies conducted by Kasahara and Hata (which the Askew claims is a "first hand source.")

I don't believe 300,000 died, but more likely 100,000 did.

I don't know the fact because I was not there. BUT ....
IF you want to believe it, you can believe .... BUT what you believe is called as Religion.

 

[noyhauser]

I don't know the fact because I was not there. BUT ....
IF you want to believe it, you can believe .... BUT what you believe is called as Religion.

You might as well be believe in a religion given the fact that almost every piece of evidence you've posted here actually stated there was a massacre.

 

[Astroboy]

You might as well be believe in a religion given the fact that almost every piece of evidence you've posted here actually stated there was a massacre.

So you admit that you are believing in the Chinese propaganda and deny anything opposite. As I said, you are living on anti-Japan religion.

 

[Astroboy]

Although it is not academic, this is another interesting reference about Fake of Nanking

THE RAPE OF NANKING=THE FAKE OF NANKING

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

History should be examined my professional historians.
True history should be taught at all schools from all over the world.
Honesty should always be our first moral towards each other.

After wars we should try to shake hands again. Bitterness, revanges and denying wars brings on new wars.
Such is life.

 

[Astroboy]

In addition, I would like to inform you of the interesting link about so-called comfort woman. ABC of Modern Japanese History:Books on "Comfort Women" - livedoor Blog（ブログ）

"Comfort woman" was started by a Japanese report some 20 years ago (later he admitted that his story was fabricated.) and used by Asahi Shinbun as an interesting topic, and then Koreans jumped on that subject as they want momey from J-government.

This is another historic propaganda.

History should be examined my professional historians.
True history should be taught at all schools from all over the world.
Honesty should always be our first moral towards each other.
After wars we should try to shake hands again. Bitterness, revanges and denying wars brings on new wars.
Such is life.

Agree.

The book I refererred to the above is written by historian and published by academic publishing house.

 

[caster51]

Iris Chang on Rape of Nanking


she did not know what emperor was at that time...

After wars we should try to shake hands again. Bitterness, revanges and denying wars brings on new wars

Anti-Japanese Education in China

 

[theAlphaDuck]

yea im sure that there are plenty of sources that dispute the comfort women thing...just like there are lots of books and sources that deny the holocaust.

funny thing is its been proven without ANY possibility that the japan army mistreated POWs, used live chinese prisoners for bayonet practice, and infected civilians with disease and then cut them open for examination while they were still alive (it was called unit 731)

so why would an army that did all of that, without even batting an eyelid say...
"hmmm have our way with the local woman folk....no no no...thats wrong and immoral...hey Taki, pass me the scalpal, i wanna know if that new strain of plaugue has penetrated this prisoners liver yet....what anesthetic.....dont be silly it might effect the results"

hmmm think about it...

and why would china NEED to use propoganda against japan?

they have a bigger economy
more resources...
stronger interenational ties with the west and rest of the world
more money...
o and the ability to invade and defeat japan in about 48 hours...

if you REALLY think it didnt happen tben you are a very silly chap indeed

 

[Emoni]

Iris Chang on Rape of Nanking

she did not know what emperor was at that time...
Anti-Japanese Education in China

Thank you, but youtube links are quite useless when it comes to evidence and using them as sources in any realm of history or academia.

 

[Astroboy]

Iris Chang on Rape of Nanking

she did not know what emperor was at that time...
Anti-Japanese Education in China

Later, She committed suicide.... maybe because she felt sense of guilty.
AMEN

 

[Emoni]

Later, She committed suicide.... maybe because she felt sense of guilty.
AMEN

That was absolutely uncalled for, and that comment is absolutely baseless in regards to evidence supporting that as well. As the original poster (if that means anything or you have any consideration for that) I'm going to politely ask that you stop posting inflammatory posts that are simply just trolling this thread. I'm seeking actual source material, not this type of junk. I think you've posted enough of that considering half your posts contain veiled insults or inflammatory remarks. This sort of immature behavior is what always leads to these topics being locked, because a few poster's unjustifiable behavior.

If all you are going to do is post like this, please take it else where. Thank you.

 

[Astroboy]

That was absolutely uncalled for, and that comment is absolutely baseless in regards to evidence supporting that as well. As the original poster (if that means anything or you have any consideration for that) I'm going to politely ask that you stop posting inflammatory posts that are simply just trolling this thread. I'm seeking actual source material, not this type of junk. I think you've posted enough of that considering half your posts contain veiled insults or inflammatory remarks. This sort of immature behavior is what always leads to these topics being locked, because a few poster's unjustifiable behavior.

If all you are going to do is post like this, please take it else where. Thank you.

What's wrong with you? It is obvious that you are posting the same type of junk - telling so-called "attorcities" without any piece of academic proof, which tactics have long been used by the posters with some political aims.

Those posters (you may not be) are coming slowly to the Japan-related forum, and starts some cultural topics, and then later show up by raising so-called "Atrocities". - but very old tactics.

Irish Chang is a liar. Nobody can deny it coz all photos she used are proved as fake and many phrases are proved as wrong. You better know that there are more documents in Japan rahter than any others. But maybe her book is a bible for a sort of political background people to disgrace Japan.

GOOD LUCK, Carry ON

 

[theAlphaDuck]

you what makes me laugh....

why can't you just admit it?

do you lack the courage?

i find this very interesting....it seems like a bit of a cultural thing...

no one wants to admit anything bad about japan...esp. the history...

why?

what are you so afraid of?

people tried to deny the unit 731 thing...but then an overwhelming amount of evidence was found...the guy that actually worked there even went to the same village in china and apologised...and do you know how the people of that village re-acted....some of whom had direct memmories of the experimentation, and death camp?

they thanked him...and were in awe of his courage to face the people that he had wronged..

if you try to say that japan did nothing wrong....ever...then you are clearly talking pants....and that then means that what you say has less value as you lie when it suits you.

britain invented the concentration camp....yea it was not a very nice thing to do....but we did....and what?

as for political views.....

well as the king consort of england said....

"your getting ideas above your station"

this is an online forum, and has no bearing on political decitions in any part of the world....

i wish japan and the japanese gov. and people had the courage to just admit what they did....as it would certainly show character.

also why would someone make that up?
what would they have to gain....
i mean if i was going to make something up to damage a countries reputation i could do ALOT better than comfort women....like comfort children....or comfort sheep
now thats slander....

all in all....it blatantly happened...no smoke without fire.

 

[caster51]

indeed ,Irish Chang contributed the Japanese to know the Fake of Nanking conversely

 

[Ronaldo]

In addition, I would like to inform you of the interesting link about so-called comfort woman. ABC of Modern Japanese History:Books on "Comfort Women" - livedoor Blogﾂ｡ﾃ環･ﾃ鳴･ﾃｺﾃ?ｰﾂ｡ﾃ擬/url]

"Comfort woman" was started by a Japanese report some 20 years ago (later he admitted that his story was fabricated.) and used by Asahi Shinbun as an interesting topic, and then Koreans jumped on that subject as they want momey from J-government.

This is another historic propaganda.



Agree.

The book I refererred to the above is written by historian and published by academic publishing house.

Evidence documenting sex-slave coercion revealed
[url=http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20070418a5.html]Evidence documenting sex-slave coercion revealed | The Japan Times Online

Exhibit shows struggle of 'comfort women
Exhibit shows struggle of 'comfort women' | The Japan Times Online

 

[sanblvd]

Very interesting, it seems a lot of people here when denying Nanjing or comfort woman they dispute the historical evidence of this.

However everyone agree that the act itself is wrong, that no one denying that the act of mass killing and organized rape is wrong. So at least everyone shares a common ground on what is right and what is wrong.

For those of you that believe Nanjing and comfort woman was a lie, please help me and do a mental excise, what happens if undeniable evidence of those action was presented to you to the point where there can be no denial?

So how will you react to this?

Like I said, I am NOT saying Nanjing is true/false. But let's pretend for a second if it is real when you believe it is not. What would be your next reaction?

 

[khamsulv]

This is a fairly big question, one that I've been studying for some time but tend to come up with little.
I've been to Nanjing, I've been to South Korea, I've spoken with comfort women, I've read the books, I've been to the sites, and I've seen some of the documents (both translated and untranslated). However, I'm always left wondering, what is the argument for denial by the nationalist factions in Japan? I've asked this question to those who tend to support the denial side of the argument and been given links or references to books, but what I end up with is usually illogical pasted together garbage and convoluted books that earn the low reviews they get blasted with. Either that or I get just a bunch of questionable poor youtube links. From claims of forged photographs, to hidden bank accounts, everything is loose, and mixed with hearsay. While proof for issues such as the Nanjing Massacre and comfort women issue is not undeniable, the proof that has been found by people such as Yoshimi Yoshiaki and the diary found by Iris Chang (despite her fairly lousy book), are near irrefutable.
So my question is this, and it is a difficult question: What is the basis and what is the proof for denial of the Japanese atrocities such as those above? Proof that can be juxtaposed against the proof that supports the events or calls in to question the validity without simply assumption, and claims mixed with paranoia and faith.

Thanks to anyone who is willing to share their experience and knowledge.

When will people get around to forgetting about the war? It happened so long ago.