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Japan says China has become 'serious problem' to security

Shibuyaexpat

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Hiroshi66 said:
The Taiwanese, the Malays of Malaysia and Singapore, Thai, Vietnamese, Khmer, Laotians, and some Burmese, Filipino, and Indonesians love the Japanese. They listen to Japanese music and love Japan...all these countries have realized that Japan wasn't all that bad, and now that its changed so much.
Really?!! Have you lived in these countries to know this information first hand? I've spent time in some of these countries and have family that live there (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia), and I can tell you that you are 100%, without-a-doubt, talking out of your ***!! Playing with video games, listening to pop culture music and buying electronics has NOTHING to do with how citizens feel about another country. It is quite amazing that, as a self-proclaimed "scholar," you would make such a bold-faced clam on a subject of which you know NOTHING!!! By the way, here's a little Vietnamese love for Japan:
http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-04-17-voa9.cfm

Hiroshi66 said:
After Taiwanese saw the hated KMT regime up close, they had fond memories of the japanese occupation.
Or could also be that Japan's colonial rule of Taiwan was not as severe as that in Korea and China (JPRI Working Paper No. 105--after the 15th footnote, you'll find what i'm talking about) As for the others, where are you getting that information?!! I'm going to have to see credible data on that.
Hiroshi66 said:
Its only South Korea and the PRC really.
Don't forget HK and Vietnam. (I know, i know, HK is technically a part of PRC, but sociologically, they're very diff. from mainlanders)

Hiroshi66 said:
I hope we can have an academic discussion here and not another bloodbath.
Let me know when you start, because clearly, your arguments are anything but "academic."
 

Shibuyaexpat

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Tim33 said:
TODAYS GENERATION OF JAPANESE DID NOT INVADE CHINA.
So what are they apologising for?
And today's generation of Chinese did not invade Tibet, so what's your point? As for Japan's military, what would you call the SDF in Iraq? Vacationing soldiers?
 

XsteelWolf

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Shibuyaexpat said:
Really?!! Have you lived in these countries to know this information first hand? I've spent time in some of these countries and have family that live there (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia), and I can tell you that you are 100%, without-a-doubt, talking out of your ***!! Playing with video games, listening to pop culture music and buying electronics has NOTHING to do with how citizens feel about another country. It is quite amazing that, as a self-proclaimed "scholar," you would make such a bold-faced clam on a subject of which you know NOTHING!!! By the way, here's a little Vietnamese love for Japan:
http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-04-17-voa9.cfm

Exactly what I wanted to say.And I agree with dreamland,they are hiding historical facts. Their new generations should know about the past of what their ancestors did and should feel ashame abt it.They should be remorseful and bring more contributions to the world.

Anyway shibuya,are you japanese =p?
 

Wang

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I think the Chinese Communist Party should make it's history textbooks acurate and the Japanese too.
 

Dream Time

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Hiroshi66 said:
The Taiwanese, the Malays of Malaysia and Singapore, Thai, Vietnamese, Khmer, Laotians, and some Burmese, Filipino, and Indonesians love the Japanese. They listen to Japanese music and love Japan.


just because they like listening to Japanese pop music, the Japanese pop culture, eating Japanese food..does not mean they LOVE JAPAN

oh, by the way, Hong Kong has been under heavy Japanese influence after the war, we listen to Japanese songs, watch Japanese tv dramas, eat Japanese food, use lots of Japanese products...SO WHAT?
5000 people in Hong Kong marched on streets to peacefully protest against Japan today.
 

shiroma

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Eisuke said:
Japan is asking for compensation for attacks on Japanese property in China and an official apology, but Li did not offer either, Japanese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hatsuhisa Takashima told reporters.
People in China are told quite different story about the meeting.
Foreign Ministers Discuss Bilateral Ties
The Japanese foreign minister expressed his government's sorrow and apology for the catastrophe brought to the Chinese people by Japan's invasion.
Then, on the next day, this:
China Says Cause of Protests Rests Japan
"The source of the problem rests with the history issue," Wu told reporters. "Japan should apologize first."
 

vietnam

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Tim33 said:
This really is pathetic, if they cant apologise then they should no way expect Japan to. This is extreamly hypocritical and this behavior is quite childish and it does make me lose alot of respect for the Chinese people.
By doing this they are contradicting what they are protesting for.

To be simple, IF Japan has to apology China for the history, then China has to apology Vietnam for thousands years in history.

It is the past!

I dont see the reasons that China requires a sorry from Japan is reasonable.

China should take care to the problems inside of their country, not by turning the attention of the people to the foreign issues.

China is totally wrong in the recently events.
 

Tim33

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Dream Time said:
we are not only demanding an apology from Japan, whats more important is that, the Japanese needs to learn what their country had done in the past and learn to prevent repeating the mistakes again

From they japanese people i have spoken they seem to know what happened and what they done. As for it happening again i seriously doubt that, the society of today in any modernized country would go to those levels. If anything these protests are creating more racial hatred and higher tensions rather then stopping them.

Shibuyaexpat said:
And today's generation of Chinese did not invade Tibet, so what's your point? As for Japan's military, what would you call the SDF in Iraq?

I have not said anything about china invading Tibet and so my point is still very clear ??? I do not understand your argument here. Im not asking the Chinese to apologise??

And yes they have a military but it is very small compared to the rest of the worlds and they dont really play a very big role. Japan will rely on American and British defence if ever there was a problem.
 

vietnam

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Dream Time said:
China was one of the victims in WW2. in the history, China has never done anything to harm Japan. we all want to move on and have a better future, but we can't move on if someone does not regret of his past mistakes, and what kind of a future would we have if Japan keeps installing those pro-war concepts into the minds of their citizens?



if they write it differently in textbooks they are brainwashing their citizens.



we are not only demanding an apology from Japan, whats more important is that, the Japanese needs to learn what their country had done in the past and learn to prevent repeating the mistakes again


Before asking Japan to do so, China should ask themselves for the black history they did to Vietnam.

In the past, many problems came from China, France, US... but Vietnam just put the past behind, Vietnam just look at the future and find out how to make the better relationships with other countries (And Japan is one of the countries that Vietnam has good relationship with).

China should learn Vietnam about this.
 

Dream Time

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Tim33 said:
From they japanese people i have spoken they seem to know what happened and what they done. As for it happening again i seriously doubt that, the society of today in any modernized country would go to those levels.


some Japanese knows what happened, but they have no sense of regret or guilt for what their country had done. as for it to happen again, i can not rule out the possibility of a WW3 in maybe 20 years, as we all know that huge wars happen in every so and so years, its just matter of when.
 

Hiroshi66

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The Japanese won't do what they did 60 years ago because the Japanese youth are more interested in pop culture than invading China. They have better things to do. THINK LOGICALLY.
 

Shibuyaexpat

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Hiroshi66 said:
The Japanese won't do what they did 60 years ago because the Japanese youth are more interested in pop culture than invading China. They have better things to do. THINK LOGICALLY.
The irony of that last statement is absolutely precious! Let me get this straight:
- 60 years ago, Japanese youth invaded Asian countries because there was no pop culture. They were just sitting around, sharpening their bayonets, polishing their rifles, and honing their military skills. Those damn chinks and gooks throughout Asia were just ripe for the picking!
- Now, Japanese youth are too enraptured in J-pop, anime and video games to be bothered by a national call to arms.

The idea of invading China now may seem preposterous now because:
-Japan does not have a military force to realize such a campaign
-China early 21st century is VERY different from China early 20th century. There is a strong central gov’t and a lot less internal political upheavals/struggles for power.

And while I’m at it, I still would like to know where you’re getting information to support your earlier claim:

The Taiwanese, the Malays of Malaysia and Singapore, Thai, Vietnamese, Khmer, Laotians, and some Burmese, Filipino, and Indonesians love the Japanese. They listen to Japanese music and love Japan...all these countries have realized that Japan wasn't all that bad, and now that its changed so much.
 
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Dream Time

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Hiroshi66 said:
The Japanese won't do what they did 60 years ago because the Japanese youth are more interested in pop culture than invading China. They have better things to do. THINK LOGICALLY.


they surely won't be the one to start a war, because in this day whoever starts a war, the country would be condemned and be surrounded by military forces of other countries.
but think about it, we all know that there will be a huge war sometime, it is just a matter of 'when', the US is helping Japan to slowly getting a military, Japan's military budget is third in the world, militarism in Japan has never died, they just keep brainwashing their citizens just like the German and Russia did. do you really think that Japan is a pacifist country? the majority of Japanese citizens loves peace, but I seriously doubt that the Japanese government love peace.
 

Hiroshi66

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Shibuyaexpat; first of all, must you really be so rude in your responses? Nobody is fighting a war with you. You don't need to hurt people's feelings.

I don't need evidence. My evidence is from talking to these people. I know Khmer, Taiwanese, and people from the other countries I mentioned who when asked about the Japanese of today say that there are different from the monsters who ravaged the country 60 years before. They listen to the music, play the games, watch the dramas. The only people who boycott Japanese items are some Chinese and Koreans. Again, I base this off real-life experience. I hope I will not have to resort to giving you these people's e-mail addresses, because that will just be sad and a little funny.

Shibuyaexpat, you seem like an educated person, and I respect your views and opinions. However, some of your comments have really hurt my feelings. There is no reason for you to put me down. Some of your other comments on other topics really hurt my feelings. You are entitled to your views but shouldn't put others down.
 

Maciamo

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Dream Time said:
some Japanese knows what happened, but they have no sense of regret or guilt for what their country had done.

This is what troubles me most in this. The young generation of Japanese just don't care about WWII. They claim they have nothing to regret or feel guilty about because they weren't born. But at the same time they don't understand that it is wrong for their Prime Minister to worship war criminals, wrong for their government to dissimulate the truth about the worst atrocities in history textbooks, wrong for the emperor not to apologise for the crimes of his (father's) Imperial Army, etc.

It's not just that the young Japanese don't care about WWII, they usually tacitly or openly support their government's shameful atitude. In that way they should be blamed for turning a blind eye on their own past and current leaders.
 

Shibuyaexpat

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Hiroshi66 said:
Shibuyaexpat; first of all, must you really be so rude in your responses? Nobody is fighting a war with you. You don't need to hurt people's feelings.
I apologize if this is what you inferred, but that’s my tone. If you’re offended, I’m sorry, I’ll try to soften it up a bit.

Hiroshi66 said:
I don't need evidence. My evidence is from talking to these people. I know Khmer, Taiwanese, and people from the other countries I mentioned who when asked about the Japanese of today say that there are different from the monsters who ravaged the country 60 years before.
I’m sorry, but you can’t make very general and very broad claims like this, and then follow it up with ツ“I don’t need evidence.ツ” Allow me to elaborate:
If you’re public profile is correct, then you’re 14 years old, and living in the U.S. Provided you seem more mature than most 14-year olds I’ve ever come across, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re more well-read than most of your cohorts. However, given this, (and I could be wrong), I strongly doubt that you’ve personally polled the citizens of these countries to make such a claim beyond casual conversations with the people you mentioned. Additionally, the people that you spoke with, do you they live in the U.S., and how far removed are they from the time of the Japanese occupation? Could your sampling of opinion be too narrowly focused?

The reason why I’m concerned is that, you then turn around and make claims like:
Hiroshi66 said:
The only people who boycott Japanese items are some Chinese and Koreans. Again, I base this off real-life experience. I hope I will not have to resort to giving you these people's e-mail addresses, because that will just be sad and a little funny.
China is Japan’s largest trading partner, and a key reason why Japan recently rebounded from the decade long recession. Japanese electronics companies are doing very well in South Korea, too (I work in this industry so I see the monthly sales reports).
Hiroshi66 said:
Shibuyaexpat, you seem like an educated person, and I respect your views and opinions. However, some of your comments have really hurt my feelings. There is no reason for you to put me down. Some of your other comments on other topics really hurt my feelings. You are entitled to your views but shouldn't put others down.
Again, my apologies if I hurt your feelings, but if this is an online forum where ideas/opinions are the only way to identify each other. I have no physical way of knowing who you are and/or gauging your reaction to my comments, besides the words that are typed, which in and of themselves are very limited tools in communication. Whether you’re 14 or 140, in these forums, if you’re opinions and arguments are not sound, you HAVE to expect that someone will shoot them down. Some may be nice in the process, while others may take the alternate route. I like to think that I’m somewhere in the middle. I don’t think I’ve been overly mean, but again, this is only my perception.
 

bossel

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I don't know how representative this is, but the BBC gives us the views of some Japanese. Pretty balanced, it seems.
 

Hiroshi66

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ShibuyaExpat ~ Its all right, I suppose. I don't think you are in the middle. You really have put me down, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and trust that you will try to soften your tone in some of the topics.

I have not consulted with the elderly in those countries. In Cambodia, most of the elderly who lived during the Japanese period were killed during the Khmer Rouge period or during the Vietnamese period. I know overseas people from those countries who are educated and know their country's culture. Only the Koreans and Chinese I have talked to say they hate the Japanese. Same with some other Filipino I know over here.

I don't like to brag, Shibuyaexpat. I wouldn't want to tell the whole world that i'm more educated than my classmates. I think that is conceded. If you don't believe my age - that's fine, I'm not here to play persuasive games.
 

vietnam

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There is always a fact that Japan is more preferable than China in the world.
The respect from Europe to Japan is much much bigger than to China.

No need to discuss!
 

A5573A

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vietnam said:
There is always a fact that Japan is more preferable than China in the world.
The respect from Europe to Japan is much much bigger than to China.

No need to discuss!


I think what u are saying is quite true, especially the second part.
Our government has a terrible image from many perspectives, eg. human rights, occupation of Tibet... ... We have a lot of things to improve in China.
I think most of overseas Chinese students like me agree with that.

However, whether or not China is a security to the world is another topic. I have several Vietnamese friend. Some of them(mainly Uni students) are from Communist Vietnam, and some of them are Australian-Born Vietnamese whose family still advocate the former South Vietnam authority. I did ask them about their impressions on China. Their response are not negative.

We might be a security threat from Japanese perspective. Especially in the past 2 weeks, Anti-Japanese protests outraged in streets in china. But It is neither our policy nor of our interest to stand off with Japan. And i can tell you that Beijing is not a hardliner this time. If you are interested in why Beijing is not, plz check the approach Bejing applyied to mitigate the effects of political turbulance in HongKong.

Beijing still pursues its internal stability at any cost, despite that, they can surprise the outside world.
 

Hiroshi66

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Don't get me wrong guys - I love Chinese culture. Its just the current People's Republic that I loathe. I view the Taiwan government - the Republic of China as the official government and what all of China would have looked like (more or less) today. That is the real China I love - not the barbarious, draconian PRC.

Same goes for Vietnam. Except in Vietnam I don't respect the Socialist Republic or the former Republic of Vietnam. One was a communistic state - the other a Christian fundamentalist (well for some time) paramilitary state. Vietnam should form a reformed Republic of Vietnam similar to the ROC.
 

A5573A

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Hiroshi66 said:
Don't get me wrong guys - I love Chinese culture. Its just the current People's Republic that I loathe. QUOTE]


Probably we can put it in this way---I love Chinese culture. Its just the current so-called communist government that I loathe. 😌

In addition, I don't think it is appropriate to describe any people as Barbaric(yes, I mean any).
 

Hiroshi66

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No, I don't think we can put it that way, A5573A. Why should we? The PRC is the same as the current communist government.

Really? Why don't you think it appropriate? Please expand on your thoughts.
 
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