Legal Japan passes law to promote understanding of the LGBT community

bentenmusume said:

What I am talking about is having a certain degree of (genuine) empathy for one's fellow human beings.

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That's great. But I believe that many of the solutions being presented are all heart and lacking in logic and that means they won't fly. If I tell you your creation won't fly its not because I want to see you cry. Its because I don't want to watch you crash and burn.

I don't want the LGBTQ+ community to make enemies after having come this far. But my analysis suggests that is exactly what they are doing....even infighting has begun.

But, maybe its inevitable. I am just warning and advising and presenting the facts I know and the future I see unfolding. Could you please stop shooting the messenger?

If I don't talk about what I want much its because that talk never did anything for me and never went anywhere. I want world peace, zero greed and everyone to be friends and get along. My life has been nothing but a witness to all those dreams sliding backwards, and I gotta say, I am damn frustrated with the whole of humanity for all of this.

Lothor said:

I like your avatar. Is that you?

Just to add to your comment about the penis/clitoris, in a study on the sexing of newborns in American hospitals, it was found that for about 1.5% of births, the doctors could not confidently state 'it's a boy' or 'it's a girl'. That's roughly the proportion of red-haired people in the US. And that's before you include the 'invisible' people, which probably make up the majority of nonbinary/trans people.

We're talking about a very sizable number of people, with a world population exceeding that of Japan.

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Upon birth, when a child has a large clitoris (more than 2 cm), it's not considered to be quite a penis, that's what we call intersex.
But, it can also be from hormones or concerns gonads (1 testicle + 1 ovary).

All the time, only the surgeons decide & of course, the child suffers from this imposed decision;
it's also a (sex) mutilation.
Usually, surgeons consider it's easier to cut a few mm...
As I stated above, the children aren't even advised or considered & they are born this way.
To fit the false binary system, those children are amputated.

The avatar is The Seeker's singer. The Seeker is a Japanese rock band.
Tbh, this woman is a T-girl. It's not an issue for me.
But it shows you trans ppl aren't visibly trans. As they blend in perfectly. There's nothing to be afraid of.
Alas, most of the times, when someone comes out as a T-person, suddenly, (some) ppl are trying to find somes clues (this part is quite masculine / feminine).
But guess what, it appears everybody has both feminine & masculine sides / parts XD. It's a shame it's such a fuss for many ppl...

Master of Time said:

Do you think I have been mean or something? I am not being mean to anyone. I am just not going to support foisting indivdual delusions on everyone else.....and I have also warned of the backlash long ago...which we see now...and that was a kindness.

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I think you don't realize when the things you are saying come off as hurtful and demeaning to people.

I don't know (and don't care) if you're being "mean" to me or not. I'm an adult and I can take it. But I do think you say things that are extremely provocative -- whether you realize it or not -- and as soon as anyone calls you out on it, you pull back and are just like "Hey, now! I was just telling the truth."

Like this:

That's great. But I believe that many of the solutions being presented are all heart and lacking in logic and that means they won't fly. If I tell you your creation won't fly its not because I want to see you cry. Its because I don't want to watch you crash and burn.

I don't want the LGBTQ+ community to make enemies after having come this far. But my analysis suggests that is exactly what they are doing....even infighting has begun.

But, maybe its inevitable. I am just warning and advising and presenting the facts I know and the future I see unfolding. Could you please stop shooting the messenger?

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Well, guess what? This is all your opinion.

It is your opinion based upon your interpretation of what you believe to be the "facts". And believe it or not, not everyone agrees with you. Maybe the LGBTQ+ community doesn't believe that someone like you has their best interests at heart, especially since you repeatedly refuse to listen to what they have to say and just keep one-sidedly presenting your "facts" as if they were the gospel truth.

I'm not "shooting the messenger". You are free to keep spreading your "message". I am simply pointing out to you that not everyone believes you are a reliable messenger, or that the arguments you are making have their best interests at heart.

You always act like nothing you're saying could possibly be wrong -- that you're simply saying objective facts and anyone who disagrees with you is "deluded" somehow. Well, amazingly enough, not everyone agrees with you.

It doesn't mean they're "misunderstanding" you. Please accept the possibility that we understand you just fine, and just simply think that you are (sometimes, not always) simply wrong about what you are saying.

If I don't talk about what I want much its because that talk never did anything for me and never went anywhere. I want world peace, zero greed and everyone to be friends and get along. My life has been nothing but a witness to all those dreams sliding backwards, and I gotta say, I am damn frustrated with the whole of humanity for all of this.

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If you want "world peace" and "for everyone to get along", you have a very interesting approach to this, because it often seems like you are literally trying to interpret every word every person says in such a way as to get offended by it and pick a fight with them.

I came in this thread with the intent of finding common ground with you, and your first reaction was to tell me that you have no idea what the hell I was trying to say instead of maybe considering the possibility that I might be a reasonably intelligent human being who is trying to have a civil conversation with you about philosophical ideas that are deeper than "trans people give me the creeps".

I would still like to find peace and common ground with you, but sometimes you make this incredibly difficult.

bentenmusume said:

I would still like to find peace and common ground with you, but sometimes you make this incredibly difficult.

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The truth is that even some of the simplest most obvious truths are incredibly difficult for most people to accept. That being the case, the response of others is usually to lie, a little bit at first, and then the lies just grow and increase in number. Well, I am not going to lie to make people feel better. Why? Why don't I just lie so everyone can be happy?

Because it doesn't work that way. I believe we don't have world peace and we cannot all get along all because of these lies that start small. There is a real butterfly effect going on here and I am not going to engage in it. That means I become the first to rock the boat usually and then everyone blames me and throws me off the boat. And when the boat sinks later, they blame anyone but themselves. In fact, they might even blame me despite the fact I have been off the boat for a long time.

In short, the problem is not really me or my presentation or people's raw intelligence. The problem is people putting too much emphasis on their feelings regarding macro subjects where their feelings don't matter.

bentenmusume said:

I might be a reasonably intelligent human being who is trying to have a civil conversation with you about philosophical ideas that are deeper than "trans people give me the creeps".

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This is a good example. You seem have taken that as me trying dictate the solution to a macro-subject based on my personal feelings. That is not what I was doing. You and I both know I am very far from not being alone in that feeling of the creeps toward certain people. I mean that guy is the complete opposite of Blair White or Haruna Ai. Its not me applying my feeling of the creeps toward the solution....its other people doing that and they are wrong. That is what I was trying to say. But I think you expect me to be like those other people. so you misunderstand me. My feelings do not matter, and I only mention them as an example of how others feel and how they act on that.....often using that as a basis for hate.

I don't operate that way. I know my creeps are my problem. I think the majority of people don't realize that their creeps are their problem and expect the world and society to avoid giving them the creeps. The fact that trans people (or queens, etc.) give many other people the creeps is just an objective fact. Do trans people like that fact? No. I am sure they hate it. But its got to be said and its got to be confronted or we will get nowhere. What's the solution? The solution is that people have to deal with their own feelings of the creeps and not expect laws and social norms to do it for them. They can avoid that feeling by simply avoiding trans people....without hate. Meanwhile, trans people need to accept that people are avoiding them and not try and demand everyone love them....and definitely not try to pass as a woman until they get a straight guy to take their clothes off.

Is there another way? Maybe. How? Indoctrinate kids in schools by having queen story time. That might work. The trouble is that conservatives are already loading their guns (literally and figuratively). I am just warning you. I am not a conservative. I don't own any guns.

Would it be easier for me to just declare Queen Story Time as a wonderful thing that is fun and wholesome? Yeah. It would be. But I would be committing a lie of omission to make people happy....and also make myself look harmless by not rocking the boat. Cowardice and lies. Not my style.

It's not indoctrination, it's teaching empathy and acceptance. Kids with Down's syndrome used to be institutionalized and hidden from society at large. Now they can be celebrated for their individual personalities and talents and get standing ovations. The same can happen for other marginalized members of society.

Master of Time said:

The truth is that even some of the simplest most obvious truths are incredibly difficult for most people to accept. That being the case, the response of others is usually to lie, a little bit at first, and then the lies just grow and increase in number. Well, I am not going to lie to make people feel better. Why? Why don't I just lie so everyone can be happy?

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Again, you are speaking from the position that everything you say is 100% the truth, and that anyone who disagrees with you simply can't "accept" that.

Can you even consider -- for one moment -- that you are giving your opinions, and that not everyone accepts your viewpoint as the "truth".

They are not asking you to lie, they are asking you to consider the fact that you may sometimes be wrong about the the things you believe, or at the very least accept the fact that other people hold a different viewpoint from you based upon their own life experiences.

The fact that trans people give many other people the creeps is just an objective fact. Do trans people like that fact? No. I am sure they hate it.

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And here we go again.

It's also an objective fact that many people -- especially those who know trans people personally and interact with them as human beings instead of just some strange vague boogeyman who can be singled out as a villain in society -- are not particularly creeped out by trans people.

So, no. I don't believe that trans people need to accept that they give "other people" (implying all or a majority of other people) the creeps just because they give you the creeps. Do you like that fact? No, I'm sure you hate it.

But its got to be said and its got to be confronted or we will get nowhere.

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No. It doesn't "need to be said."

You believe it "needs to be said" because trans people give you the creeps. If you -- as you claim -- truly accepted that "your creeps are your problem", you would not be presenting your viewpoint as "it is an objective fact that trans people give other people the creeps, and therefore all solutions should be based on this reality."

I, for one, do not feel "creeped out" by trans people, so I think they should just be allowed to exist and speak their mind as they see fit. That is not a delusion, that is my viewpoint based on my experiences, which is at least as valid as yours.

Meanwhile, trans people need to accept that people are avoiding them and not try and demand everyone love them....and definitely not try to pass as a woman until they get a straight guy to take their clothes off.

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"Trans people need to accept that I, Master of Time, get to determine what gives them the right to 'pass' as a woman."

Do you have any idea how arrogant you sound right now?

"I want world peace and for everyone to get along! I just don't believe that everyone deserves to be loved, and I believe that MY VALUES and MY VALUE SYSTEM should determine how other people live their lives."

Seriously...how can you not understand how these statements can be offensive to people?

Is there another way? Maybe. How? Indoctrinate kids in schools by having queen story time. That might work. The trouble is that conservatives are already loading their guns (literally and figuratively). I am just warning you. I am not a conservative. I don't own any guns.

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There's another way, and that way includes people like you who claim to have "empathy" not making these weird veiled threatening statements (again, not saying that you are personally threatening them, but the implication of a threat is also a threat).

"I'm not saying I'm going to shoot you for being disgusting and creepy... I hate violence and guns! I'm just saying...someone might shoot you for being disgusting and creepy, and like, hey, I wouldn't be able to do anything about that...because, like, it's your fault for not listening to me and continuing to be disgusting and creepy, right?"

Seriously, I genuinely believe you have no idea what empathy is. You keep spouting incredibly hurtful and dangerous rhetoric, and acting like you're doing nothing but speaking the "truth".

You literally have shown no indication that you are ready to consider for a second that people other than you might have a valid point of view. It's so incredibly frustrating because you seem on the surface to value debate and exchange of ideas, but you literally cannot accept that anyone who disagrees with you might have a valid opinion.

mdchachi said:

It's not indoctrination, it's teaching empathy and acceptance. Kids with Down's syndrome used to be institutionalized and hidden from society at large. Now they can be celebrated for their individual personalities and talents and get standing ovations. The same can happen for other marginalized members of society.

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Thank you for bringing that up. It is a perfect example of indoctrination. Most people with Down's are not functional at all and need constant care. But over the years I have seen this downplayed....in fact....after checking....I cannot even find statistics on it anymore. All part of the indoctrination. High functioning Downs sufferers performing great feats is great and all, but they are being used to make Downs look like its just a trifle. It isn't. Heart abnormalities, hearing problems, eating problems, intestinal problems, foot problems, thyroid problems, deformities...the list just goes on and on.

Part of the reason this is being done is because modern western societies desperately want to pretend that women's eggs don't age, and having kids around or after 35 isn't a problem even though it really is. Hell, just finding women who know and understand that their eggs are as old as they are can be a challenge. The result has been more Down's babies born and more people trying to pass that off as the trifle it absolutely isn't. It absolutely is indoctrination.

It's a shame you really aren't truly the Master of Time.

If you were, you could create your own dimension.

A dimension where trans people just hide in their homes all day so that they don't give "normal" people like you the creeps.

A dimension where women realize that because their "eggs age", they should just sequester themselves after reaching the decrepit old age of freaking thirty-five, regardless of their own career aspirations, their husband/partner's feelings on raising a family, etc. etc.

A dimension where nobody gets "indoctrinated" to feel empathy or compassion or love for anyone who isn't "normal" in terms of their health or gender identity, and such people are ostracized and treated as the weird, freaky, burdens to society that they are.

Unfortunately, this is the real world and people are going to live their lives the way they want to, whether you agree with it or not.

It must be such a burden for you...being the only person in the world who is enlightened enough to see the truth, and being unable to create a world in which everyone acts the correct way, which is exactly as you believe they should act.