Issue understanding the の particle's usage in a book title

[zxuiji]

Gotta go to work now so I'll do the last one tommorrow

 

[Toritoribe]

megami(sounds like mengami)

That's 鼻濁音, as I repeatedly pointed out. Do you accept your mistake about "fushigi", by the way?

自由の女神=jiyuu no megami=freedom of/from goddess

静かの海=shizuka no umi=silence of ocean / quiet from sea

Your interpretation is wrong. The order of the words for "freedom of goddess" and "silence of ocean" should be 女神の自由 and 海の静かさ/静けさ, respectively.

祓魔師=haramashi=exercise spirit army

The reading of the compound word 祓魔師 is futsumashi, and the meaning is "exorcist".

Those kinds of analysis can't give you the difference between なand の after all. You need to learn grammar properly, anyway.

 

[zxuiji]

That's 鼻濁音

I'll come back to that after I re-read the thread as I'm loosing track of that part of the conversation

Do you accept your mistake about "fushigi", by the way?

I never said it wasn't, I mearly said it sounded like fushini to me

Your interpretation is wrong. The order of the words for "freedom of goddess" and "silence of ocean" should be 女神の自由 and 海の静かさ/静けさ, respectively.

so in other words unless it involves a name I should flip the word order when translating to english? Such correcting my orginal understanding of the phrases to "Goddess of Freedom" and "Sea of Silence"?

The reading of the compound word 祓魔師 is futsumashi, and the meaning is "exorcist".

Ah so that was it, I thought it might be that or exercism (hadn't found the compound) but since you had been waiting for a response for a while I decided to come back to it if I got a chance. For reference is there ever a time when kanji directly next to each other do not form a compound?

Those kinds of analysis can't give you the difference between なand の after all. You need to learn grammar properly, anyway.

Well come payday I can order those recommended books and see if they really do help me out.

 

[Mike Cash]

For reference is there ever a time when kanji directly next to each other do not form a compound?

Oh goodness gracious, yes. Frequently.

You're about to experience one of the main frustrations experienced by people who set out to teach themselves Japanese by reading a book: the lack of spaces.

 

[zxuiji]

Oh goodness gracious, yes. Frequently.

You're about to experience one of the main frustrations experienced by people who set out to teach themselves Japanese by reading a book: the lack of spaces.

Lack of spaces doesn't bother me since it's no different then differentiating between I & l, also after re-reading the thread I stand corrected about not having said it was definitly fushini. But as for the kanji you thought I misheard, they are not even on the page, I look up each individual kanji via the radicals then go through the attached info to see if there are compounds then listen to the sound produced after reading the furigana by it.

 

[Mike Cash]

But as for the kanji you thought I misheard

Please pay attention to the names of the people you are responding to. I haven't said anything about the 'fushigi" thing.

 

[Mike Cash]

Lack of spaces doesn't bother me

Then why should you care or even ask if there are times when kanji next to each other are not parts of compounds? The only reason I can think of for the question to come up at all is inconvenience due to an inability to recognize discrete words because of the lack of spaces between them. (It's not a problem if you learn the language before you try to read it; already knowing the language is why the lack of spaces is not an issue for native speakers).

I am relieved to learn that you are the first Japanese learner in the history of Japanese learning who won't be the least bit discommoded by the lack of spaces. Everybody else is at least mildly irked by it at least in the beginning.

 

[Toritoribe]

so in other words unless it involves a name I should flip the word order when translating to english? Such correcting my orginal understanding of the phrases to "Goddess of Freedom" and "Sea of Silence"?

Yes for 自由の女神, but notice that I wrote 静かさ/静けさ, not just 静か for the latter example. Besides, の has many functions. See the following thread, for instance.
Translation from a manga | Japan Forum

I thought it might be that or exercism

師 is a suffix for a person who does an action, just like -er/-ist/-ian in English, so "exorcism" can't be the case.
e.g.
教師
看護師
手品師

Lack of spaces doesn't bother me

Try to parse the following sentence for practice.

友軍は昨日深夜総司令官指揮下当該係争地急襲後今払暁意気揚々全軍即時撤収した。

 

[zxuiji]

Then why should you care or even ask if there are times when kanji next to each other are not parts of compounds?

Because while I know most (if not all) compounds are normally seperated by the hirigana based grammer/particles I have yet to come across any info that explicitly states that kanji between these particles and grammer are always compounds, this leaves only an assumption of how I should be reading the kanji I come across, an assumption can never be deemed knowledge so I would rather transform that assumption into knowledge.

 

[zxuiji]

Yes for 自由の女神, but notice that I wrote 静かさ/静けさ, not just 静か

In that case whoopsie is all I can say.

Besides, の has many functions. See the following thread, for instance.
Translation from a manga | Japan Forum

I probably will when I get round to that practice sentence.

師 is a suffix for a person who does an action, just like -er/-ist/-ian in English, so "exorcism" can't be the case.

learn something new everyday

Try to parse the following sentence for practice.

友軍は昨日深夜総司令官指揮下当該係争地急襲後今払暁意気揚々全軍即時撤収した。

Don't have time today or tommorrow so I will have to leave it until monday. Also for everyone's information I won't be replying after this until tommorrow after 8pm

 

[Toritoribe]

In that case whoopsie is all I can say.

Seems like you don't need explanation...

 

[Mike Cash]

Seems like you don't need explanation...

Nah, he just needs another five or ten sentences to run through his app and he'll have Japanese all figured out.

 

[zxuiji]

Seems like you don't need explanation...

I just didn't look deeply into it, I study as and when I feel like it and since I made a mistake I acknowledged it with words, when I feel like looking deeply into it I may ask for an explanation at that time.

 

[zxuiji]

Nah, he just needs another five or ten sentences to run through his app and he'll have Japanese all figured out.

I wish, btw Toritoribe I gonna start trying that sentence now and just out of curiosty does the name toritoribe have a meaning behind it?

 

[Toritoribe]

just out of curiosty does the name toritoribe have a meaning behind it?

Giving and receiving verbs | Japan Forum

 

[zxuiji]

Giving and receiving verbs | Japan Forum

Thanks Still working oon that sentence btw, this is how far I've gotten:

友軍=yuugun=friendly troops
は=wa;topic marker
昨日=sakujitsu=yesterday
深夜=shinya=late at night
総=sou=general
司令官=shireikan=commandent

Don't think I've gotten anything wrong there so far but never hurts to give a chance for corrective replies while I continue with it

 

[zxuiji]

Need a little help with this part of the sentence

指揮=shiki=command
下=shita?=below/down/descend/give/low/inferior

1st do I apply the ta from the sentence end to shiki or a later word and is shita the correct reading for 下? I tried looking for a compound reading of 下当 in the app but couldn't find it or is it that 指揮下 is a compound reading itself and is equivalent of commanded? Gonna look them up on jisho.org but on off chance I don't find it I'm hoping you will give me the help anyways.

 

[zxuiji]

Nope couldn't find the compound form so I assume 下 uses a kun-reading but there are 3 possible kun-readings according to my app so I need help identifying which or at least what type of rule to look for to identify the reading.

 

[Mike Cash]

Nope couldn't find the compound form so I assume 下 uses a kun-reading but there are 3 possible kun-readings according to my app so I need help identifying which or at least what type of rule to look for to identify the reading.

You need to spend some time with a textbook learning the language first, as has been mentioned once or twice.

 

[zxuiji]

You need to spend some time with a textbook learning the language first, as has been mentioned once or twice.

As I mentioned before I'm waiting for payday, until then I cannot afford to order said textbooks.

 

[lanthas]

"First" doesn't have to mean "now", you know.

 

[zxuiji]

"First" doesn't have to mean "now", you know.

no but the

as has been mentioned once or twice

seems to imply it, when I do get those books then they can be brought up again but until then it's quite annoying to be nagged at about something I can only do something about in the future and not the present.

 

[zxuiji]

Well given no one is telling me I'm on the wrong track I'll assume I'm on the right track with translating that sentence that toritoribe asked me to try so I'll continue from where I left off now.

 

[OoTmaster]

I think it would be really helpful to not just jump into kanji and reading like you seem intent on doing. For example 昨日is pronounced きのう or Kinou in hepburn romanization. It's a word/kanji learned relatively early. So rather than guessing the pronunciation you don't have to because you know the word and what it means.

 

[zxuiji]

After having translated a couple of later words I'm starting to think 指揮下 is supposed to mean denied in this context, am I correct?

Edit: Never mind translated a couple more words and denied would not make sense, and ootmaster I just saw your message and I have a few things to say:

1st. Thank you for correcting the pronociation
2nd. I would have gone back through the sentence once I finished translating the words to see if there were more ways to say the words that I may have overlooked, in this case there obviously was
3rd. Just call this some alternative study until I get ahold of that genki series that was recommended, no point wasting valuable time if I'm in the mood to study.