Islam the beacon of light in Japan

Ma Cherie · 30 Dec 2006

Oh wow, you insult where I live and make assumptions about me based on nothing. And you have not ill feelings towards me? Saying I'd call you terrorist? Well remeber you said that, not me. Goodness, I would hate how you would behave if you did have ill feelings towards me.

First of all, just because I could care less about Islam or any other religion for that matter, doesn't mean I have a negative opinion of it.

You're telling me I should learn about Islam and I'm ignorant towards it, and yet you're saying I'm from a "white-trash" state. Well sweetheart, if I'm from a "white-trash" state then maybe you should educate yourself about where I live if you think I should learn about Islam. Because you're ignorant about the midwest. If you knew anything, you'd know that Kansas was one of the first states to abolish slavery.

And sweetheart, I don't need to read about Malcom X, I read his autobiography. He helped found the Nation of Islam here. You don't need to tell me, because I already know. I can't believe you're trying to tell me what I should do.

You want me to learn about Islam, why don't you take some to learn about my belief system.
http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm

Sorry, Iron Chef, but I hate when people insult where I live.

Mycernius · 30 Dec 2006

Yamatoblue said:
First of all I know enough about Islam (not Islams) to know it's the truth. Please, you think that just because you read one book you know everything about Islam.

One, Islams was a spelling mistake
Two, I have read more than one book on Islams history, but it looks like you haven't, or if you have it was pure doctrine, not history.

Duo 9 · 4 Jan 2007

Can any one of you say that you know everything there is to know about your religion? There are so many things left out of the mainstream, so many things buried and hidden from the common people, and many things added just to control and manipulate. My belief is religion is for people who need something to do. It's not something to make fun of, religious people, but don't make a big deal about it if someone else has different views, and for your God's sake don't wage war in the name of religion.

Lo San · 2 Feb 2007

Heh,webmaster please remove this thread,sooner or later all the sesitive issue will pop and members start to argue with each other about their religion. I think there must be a barrier somewhere. let talk something else. and practise your religion at home.

lv426 · 5 Feb 2007

Being an Atheist, I find it hard to believe people can explain the creation of the universe with something even more implausible as an entity such as God (If God created the universe then who created God). Blind faith is a very scary thing, it stops people asking questions and stops them thinking for themselves. I personally believe that all religions are bad, some more so than others. How many wars and murders have been based around religion, it gives people the power to cause harm to others all in the name of God.

From what I know Japan is not much of a religious country, and what religion they do have is tied more to their culture and historical values. I also know that in terms of drinking the Japanese are more in control than most in Europe, often people will have a couple of drinks and then switch to coffee when they start to feel the alcohol kicking in. And compared to certain areas in the UK, Japan does not have the yob culture that fuels street fights after a heavy drinking session. Drinking is a social event, much like in the UK and else where.

I would not tell you to change your religion; everyone is free to believe what they want. So why cant you respect other peoples beliefs, not everyone is as interested in Islam. It also does not make them wrong, or bad people. Japan seems to be doing very well as it is, and surly if you go to another countries it's because you like that culture and country. And not because you want to change it, this in my view is not respectful or right. I would not go to some other country and tell them they are idiots for what they believe in or how they conduct their lives, I know it's an extreme example but hey!!!
Also its not just religion that can bring people together, I know many, many people from different countries and get on well with them. I'm not religious and yet I still manage it, maybe it's because I'm open minded and try to respect everyone I meet and vice versa. If anything religion has divided races and countries.

eemaan · 5 Feb 2007

is this STILL GOING ON???!!!
goodness me
so tell me, what will happen to you all when you die?? when people have left you behind in your grave, and you're all alone, what will happen to you? you will have another conciousness.
you think people won't be brought to justice?
people will have got away with all their evil deeds? and the good will go unrewarded? then what a waste of time don't you think? no?
so what is the purpose of your existence?
hmmm??????????
i know mine and i'm happy with it very much, may you all find sincere guidance

lv426 · 5 Feb 2007

Lol why do people have such a hard time with this, I belive that when you die thats it. You dont exist any more, your gone!!! Evil people are\should be punished by the law, good people dont need rewards. I dont like the fact that people in religions only do good things to others because they think they are going to get a reward for it, people should do these things because its right.
And as for making existence pointless, I think it makes it all the more important and exciting. We only get one chance at life, so we should make the best of it. There are so many amazing people, places and things to do in the world I find it hard to think anyone would find it pointless. I actually find the notion of religion undermines the world we live in, people see it as a stop gap between getting into heven or hell.
I know full well my purpose of existence, I dont need religion to tell me something which cant even be proven. I'm glad ur happy with your life, you should be. But you should remeber that not everyone is the same as you, not everyone is going to share the same opinions as you. Which is why I dont like the title of you post, something which I think many people have said. You should respect other peoples belifes, culture and way of life. Not try and change because you dont like it...

ZeroS · 6 Feb 2007

It's a matter of personal preference and personal perception of things.
Regarding Islam, all and any scientific statements made by it in the Quraan are 100% scientifically veritable and correct.

There's a book I got somewhere around here that explains astronomical references, mountanous refernces, foetal references, etc in Quraan under a highly, specialised, scientific scope. Not a single fault. In fact, the Quraan existed long before many of these theories were even founded.

So belief in the unseen huh? From the above it can be said that at the time no one could fathom those theories but as time passed it was discovered and it only augmented the veritibality of the Quraan. However, certain things cannot, not will not, but, cannot, be discovered no matter how much the human mind deliberates.

Well, to be honest, I don't specialise in this field. There are many works around on the net. Perhaps if I find the time I could research it and we could learn something about the other. ^_~

lv426 · 6 Feb 2007

As far as I'm a wear there's no scientific proof that points to there being an almighty being, it's purely all speculation (religious belief). There is however scientific proof that points towards evolution.
The basis of all science is if a theory can't be disproved, then it must be scientific fact. Religion is the opposite; people are encouraged not to ask questions and to believe what they are told.
As I understand it Islam is a fairly new religion, younger than both Christianity and Judaism (I may be wrong please correct me). Like all religions its created by man, and the books their based around have many different authors. Followers base their beliefs on these books, which in the end they have absolutely no idea who really wrote them. It's impossible to know, history becomes distorted over time. Especially considering how far back these books go. I come from a very religious background, going to two religious schools. And even when I was ten I found myself questioning many of the teachings I was given, by the time I was in my late teens I had dismissed any of the fantastical notions I was taught about religion.

Anyway that's my rant, back on topic... Again my point being party what ZeroS say, its personal preference and perception. The Japanese have theirs, so why does it need to be changed??? Even though I have voiced my opinion on religion, I understand why people follow it. They have the right to like everyone else, but I don't think they have the right to force it on other people. In the end it should be their choice, and not forced on them. Which unfortunately some religions\religious groups do...

ZeroS · 6 Feb 2007

lv426 said:
As I understand it Islam is a fairly new religion, younger than both Christianity and Judaism (I may be wrong please correct me). Like all religions its created by man, and the books their based around have many different authors. Followers base their beliefs on these books, which in the end they have absolutely no idea who really wrote them. It's impossible to know, history becomes distorted over time. Especially considering how far back these books go. I come from a very religious background, going to two religious schools. And even when I was ten I found myself questioning many of the teachings I was given, by the time I was in my late teens I had dismissed any of the fantastical notions I was taught about religion.

Yip, Islam is new if you put it that way, though 1400 years is stilla long time.
The Holy Book of Islam, The Quraan, is a divine book. Our prophet was illiterate so for him to fabricate a book that would marvel even the most literary affluents and poets of his time is impossible. Many of his companions witnessed him as revelation was taking place.

So it's not written by different people, nope, in fact, it ain't written by anyone.

I too question many things but, thankfully I've always found satisfactory answers to the point that my faith is pretty deep rooted.

So you believe in science then? Pretty interesting stuff that. Antimatter, chaos theory, dark matter, etc.

Mycernius · 6 Feb 2007

*Sighs* The Koran is a mish mash of Judaic, Christian and Pre-islamic myth all mixed up. When Muhammad moved to Medina he learnt about Jewish myths and added them into the Koran to make more sense to what he had already written. BTW, I do not believe that a sucessful merchant like Muhammad was totally illerate. It is doctrine, not truth.
But if it gives you comfort in your life then peace be with you.

lv426 · 6 Feb 2007

Yep, all very thrilling

Anyway, I'm not trying to have a go at any one persons religion. Just the topic title, and the extremests in any religion... I'm fine with people believing what they will, untill they try and force it on others. A becon of light asumes that Japan is somehow in need of help, that their country is wrong. Many maybe say the same of Pakistan or any other Islamic based country (no offence to anyone, just making a point)... Surly it should come down to the people brought up there and are part of the culture, not what another group belives???

ZeroS · 6 Feb 2007

@Mycernius - lol, Muhammed was not a merchant. He lived his life in the most simplistic way. Whether he was illetrate or not may be left to debate but it is accepted that he was illiterate. But, even if he was literate. The level of arabic used int he quraan is examplary to the extent that the Quraan itself poses a challenge to any to bring even one chapter the like of the Quraan.
Unfortunately if you haven't studied Arabic you couldn't appreciate the challenge. Try reading some english classical works translated from Arabic. Like A Thousand and One Arabian Nights by Burton or Lain and you'll get a glimpse of Arabic eloquence which is even nowhere near comparable to the Quraan.
Sorry but I find your statements wholly unfounded.

@lvl426 - I wholly support your view. Believe what you will. Heck, even in the quraan; "To you is yours and to me mines"
However, when people propose half baked, unresearched opinions, and not facts, about other peoples' religions or ways of life it is rather disturbing is it not?

But like mycernius said, if it gives you comfort in life then peace be with you....

lv426 · 6 Feb 2007

Fair enough, each to his own. I'm not an expert on Islam or any other religion, Christianity more than anything (Christian Schools). But I dont consider my opinions to be half baked, most of what I've said is what most athiests will agrea with. Much of which has been tied to Scientific fact, so I dont consider them to be unfouned views. I my self just dont get blind faith, but I understand why others do. And I apreciate the good it can do for people, but I'm also awear of the harm it can do.

Anyway, you've made some good points. More so than some other people, and I respect them. Even if I can go on sometimes

ZeroS · 6 Feb 2007

Oh boy, my bad....

My comment was not directed at you. Rather it was intended for mycernius.

As I understand it Islam is a fairly new religion, younger than both Christianity and Judaism (I may be wrong please correct me).....

I really do appreciate when people do things like this. I do too since I know for a fact that you cannot understand another's views unless you learn it from them and not from one of your own. Or the alternative is verified comparative religious works, articles and research. This too is murky ground if you don't know how and where to tread it.

Mycernius · 7 Feb 2007

I have read 1001 nights. I realise how much sex and violence is actually in the translated stories rather than the watered down nursery versons. My copies are by Mardrus and Mathers.
I have read in several sources, some Islamic, that he was a merchant. Learnt it from his uncle.
Just one source; Wiki (bold by myself)

Childhood
Muhammad was born into an affluent family settled in the northern Arabian town of Mecca. Tradition places it in the Year of the Elephant, commonly identified with 570. Some[citation needed] calculate his birthday as 20 April of that year, while Shi'a Muslims believe it to have been 26 April 570. Other sources calculate the year of his birth to have been 571. Muhammad's father, Abdullah, had died almost six months before he was born and the young boy was brought up by his paternal grandfather Abd al-Muttalib, of the Banu Hashim clan of the Quraysh tribe. At the age of six, Muhammad lost his mother Amina and became fully orphaned. "Many years later, when he was exiled by his Meccan opponents, on his first pilgrimage from Medina to Mecca, he stopped at his mother's grave and cried bitterly, bringing tears to the eyes of his companions."[20] When he was eight years of age, his grandfather Abd al-Muttalib, who had become his guardian, also died. Muhammad now came under the care of his uncle Abu Talib, the new leader of the Hashim clan of the Quraish tribe, the most powerful in Mecca.

Mecca was a thriving commercial center, due in great part to a shrine (now called the Kaaba) that housed statues of many Arabian gods. [citation needed] Merchants from various tribes would visit Mecca during the pilgrimage season, when all inter-tribal warfare was forbidden and they could trade in safety. While still in his teens, Muhammad began accompanying his uncle on trading journeys to Syria. He thus became well-travelled and knowledgeable about foreign ways.[citation needed]

Middle years
Muhammad became a merchant. He "was involved in trade between the Indian ocean and the Mediterranean Sea."[21] He gained a reputation for reliability and honesty that attracted a proposal from Khadijah, a forty-year-old widow in 595.[21] Muhammad consented to the marriage, which by all accounts was a happy one.

Ibn Ishaq records that Khadijah bore Muhammad six children: three sons named Al Qasem, Abdullah (who is also called Al Tayeb and Al Taher) and Ibrahim, and four daughters. He was also called Abul Qasim (father of Qasim) after his eldest son Qasim, according to Arab customs. All of Khadija's children were born before Muhammad reported receiving his first revelation. His son Qasim died at the age of two. The four daughters are said to be Zainab, Ruqayyah, Umm Kulthum, and Fatima.

The Shi'a say that Muhammad had only the one daughter, Fatima, and that the other daughters were either children of Khadijah by her previous marriage, or children of her sister.

You'll find no end of sources mention he was a merchant.

ZeroS · 7 Feb 2007

He was a merchant as he was under the protection of his uncle Abu Talib and at the time he was still very young and had not yet recieved prophethood. Thereafter his uncle passed away and a series of events took place. Muhammed (SAW) was not a merchant in life. He was offered all the treasures of Arabia and he replied that had even the moon be brought in his right hand he would not accept it. He chose to spread the message instead.
His daily life as a prophet was of simplicity. He scarcely had enough food for himself and was always concerned about the welfare of others.
The bottom line! He was a merchant in his youth for a short while as he was under the protection of his uncle and had then wed Khadija (RA) who was a merchant herself. Thereafter he ceased trade and when he had received the first revelation he began to preach Al Islam.

Try the book by Martin Lings, "Life of Muhammed" It gives a more holistic view of things though I've heard that a passage from his book is not authentic. This I have not researched myself yet so I cannot comment on it. Nevertheless, it's an excellent and informative read.

lv426 · 7 Feb 2007

Thats ok ZeroS, its been nice to hear what you've got to say. And I hate to make asumptions, especially when I many be wrong

ZeroS · 7 Feb 2007

So lv426 (that's a err... really abstract name ) have you been to Japan before? I joined here cos I was thinking of going in August and was hoping to familiarise myself with Japanese people, etc. Hopefully I'll learn the language by August or at least enough to communicate.

Mycernius · 7 Feb 2007

I've tried various books, but most are biased for or against him, depending on the faith of the writer. Muslims tend to excel him, Christian writers tend to denouce him. One of the best I have read is Muhammed by Karen Armstrong. As she is neither for or against him it is a fairly objective book. He might have some myths wrapped up with him, but that is probably propaganda built up by his descendents. All religious leaders suffer from it. For Jesus it got to the point where they decided he was the Son of God and God incarnate on Earth. Trying to find the truth is difficult, but at least Muhammed was activtly involved and had comtempory non-Islamic sources also write about him, which help finding about his life. I might go in search of that book

lv426 · 7 Feb 2007

Yeah sorry its really bad, a geeky name I chose for the internet when I was ten... Dont know why I'm still using it, anyway yeah I went a couple of years ago and thought it was amazing. I'd been learning for a couple of years, not very well mind u and thought I should see what the place was like before I continue my studies. Hopefully I'm going there again soon to stay with my girlfriend, cant wait XD You should definalty go, you wont be disapointed. How long have u been learning Japanese??

ZeroS · 8 Feb 2007

@Mycernius - Sounds intersting. i shoudl search for these books too. ^_~

@lv426 - The same goes for my nick. It started off as ZeroSplice when I was younger and then ZeroS and ZS abbreviated whereas I sometimes use the nick Another Brother and Nullus Agnosco.

I've been learning Japanese ever since I started watching anime a few years back. Now I'm trying to do some formal learning but have no idea where to start. @_@

lv426 · 8 Feb 2007

Ah I think I was the same as u, eventually a friend told me that my college did Japanese lessons cos their were so many J-students anyway. Then after I came to uni I carried on at another uni near to mine, in any case both courses used the same books. I'm my case Japanese for Busy People, these are great books and really explain the gramma well. I did buy a book called Ultimate Japanese, which is quite thick and comes with 8 audio CD's. Its ment to be for beginners to intermediates, but it was really complex and scary, it almost put me off.
By far the best way to learn is to take some lessons, failing that get Japanese for Busy People, and maybe the audio CD that goes with it.

Mycernius · 9 Feb 2007

Could you keep it on topic please. If you wish to talk about learning techniques either start a thread, search for a relevant thread or stick to PM. Thank you

ZeroS · 9 Feb 2007

Oh yeah. Sorry dude.
And thanks for advice lv426.

Islam the beacon of light in Japan

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