Is patriotism a kind of civil religion?

[anomouse]

Is it a religion hidden under the guise of nations?
Does that contradict religious freedom, which modern nations uphold?

Civil religion - Wikipedia
American civil religion - Wikipedia

 

[Anohito]

Patriotism is a concept that is too easily abused. It can indeed have religious aspects, as seen in two phenomena related to patriotism:

Patriolatry general: Idolatrous worship of the "Fatherland".

Patriolatry individual: Idolatrous worship of the "Founding Fathers".

Even if patriotism does not have a specifically religious aspect, it can all too easily be dangerous, as Ambrose Bierce noted some time ago:

"PATRIOT, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first."

 

[bakaKanadajin]

I think, to get philosophical, it's an outdated concept. Although borders and nationalities are important in terms of maintaining the general peace and stability of things (and I use the term peace loosely), in this day and age I think the average person sees that we are all one race and one species, and that now more than ever our chances of survival hinge on allowing a more global atmosphere to prevail.

To be blunt, wealthy nations and their governments stand to lose the most from this, and this is the sticking point we're at. The stalling and failure at the current WTO talks highlights this nicely.

 

[anomouse]

I've read Benedict Anderson's book Imagined Communities explaining that nationalism IS a religion.
It's interesting to observe that secular nations never really go secular.
Benedict Anderson - Wikipedia

 

[scieck]

...in this day and age I think the average person sees that we are all one race and one species, and that now more than ever our chances of survival hinge on allowing a more global atmosphere to prevail.

I totally agree with your second point, our chances for survival rest on our ability to live on this planet as one race called human beings.
But I believe that the "average" person is too worry on day to day living and blinded by the blinks and shines forced over our eyes by unscrupulous multinationals and governments to be able to see the big picture.
I think patriotism and religion are fundamentally different, however for me they have one very negative point in common, they are both dividers rather than unifiers, and for me this is enough to despise them both.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I've said it before elsewhere and I'll reiterate:

Patriotism and nationalism are two different things that are all too often confused, as attested by this:

"PATRIOT, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

Bierce is absolutely 100% wrong. What he describes is a nationalist. A patriot loves his people and country, but not necessarily his government. He'd die for his fellow countrymen and his homeland. A nationalist loves his government and would die for it. There is a big difference.

A patriot would fight certain wars, but wouldn't necessarily fight others. A patriot, especially an American patriot, should always question his government. The nationalist is the one who follows blindly, who buys into propaganda, and who falls for talk of "glory" and "the father/mother/homeland." It isn't the dirt you are on but the people around you that are important to you if you are a patriot.

 

[Emoni]

Interesting thread. I could see where the religious sort of fervor pours into other areas, such as "patriotism." China would be a good example of this history wise. Any time you have blind action and belief without question or consideration you will run into this.

 

[Anohito]

Well meaning (I'm being highly charitable here) but misguided people who try to salvage the concept of patriotism based on their own special definitions remind me of those people who defend Christianity by using their own particular definitions of the "Christian = good person" fallacy.

 

[KirinMan]

Well meaning (I'm being highly charitable here) but misguided people who try to salvage the concept of patriotism based on their own special definitions remind me of those people who defend Christianity by using their own particular definitions of the "Christian = good person" fallacy.

Or for that matter any other religion on the planet either I might add.

"Muslim equals terrorist". which is a bucket of horse manure as well.

 

[Anohito]

Or for that matter any other religion on the planet either I might add.

"Muslim equals terrorist". which is a bucket of horse manure as well.

At the risk of being chastened about off-topic material, I used the specific example of certain Christians, because in the USA one often sees thoroughly tiresome arguments along the lines of "those persons aren't real Christians because they are bad." Both avowed conservative and liberal/progressive Christians do it to attack each other.

 

[Kenjirou]

I was having a conversation with one of my American a few years when I lived there, and something he said to me I still think about it sometimes. Because I am athiest and somehow and make those around me athiest to or something, he told me that before he met me (we had met at around 10 years old... so quite a while before) he was a "good little boy, always going to church." How does going to church have any connection with being good whatsoever? From my perspective the people that believe that they can somehow become "good" just by going to church or mosque or w/e you do just annoys me. It reminds me of Martin Luther and his damn 95 theses, religion has nothing to do with being righteous or good or anything. --Sorry way off topic just looked at the last couple posts >< -- I think that Patriotism is a myth, its created by the government to control the people in an attempt to create "idol"like figures that we should aspire to. In that way its VERY LIKE religion. Yes?