Is it time for US Force to leave Japan?

[Brooker]

Shooter wrote...

Just having a BA in social work does not insure one a work visa. Your field must be one that the Japanese economy finds useful, was my original contention.

Brooker wrote...

If you have a college degree in any subject you can easily get a job and a work visa and collect a very nice income allowing you to live like a king while you're there

Shooter also wrote...

So it still comes back to my first statement in dispute: it all depends on how you define "a lot." No offense meant. I am not trying to tie your panties in a bunch about this, but I think that you over-estimate, sir.

No, I didn't define the exact value of "a lot," but I sure saw A LOT of other foreigners when I was in Japan and they came from all different backgrounds. I see your point about a less broad range of people being able to experience Japan if the military leaves, and that may be a shame, but is that really a valid reason in favor of a military occupying a country?

 

[Shooter452]

Brooker wrote:

No, I didn't define the exact value of "a lot," but I sure saw A LOT of other foreigners when I was in Japan and they came from all different backgrounds. I see your point about a less broad range of people being able to experience Japan if the military leaves, and that may be a shame, but is that really a valid reason in favor of a military occupying a country?

Shooter responds:

No, it is not. Nor would I advocate keeping very expensive military bases on foreign soil just to give travel opportunities to the lower middle class. I was just pointing out a desireable by-product of that occupation.

You should know that the Second World War in the Pacific was a racial war. It was a war of unreasoning hatred and of incredible brutality on both sides. One of the bridges to understanding that salved those hatreds on--both sides--was that very occupation.

In 1945, a majority of Americans would have advocated expunging Japan. Surveys taken of Americans at the time advocated dropping more nuclear weapons on Japan. They--like the Japanese themselves--did not know that there were no more to use, but the fact that they would have comfortably advocated their use illustrates how bitter the feelings were about Japan. There are still people alive today who still hate the Japanese, but they are few because so many more understand something about them now.

I agree wholeheartedly that the bases should be closed, as you know from reading completely and thoroughly all of my previous posts, so I know that the question was strictly rhetorical. *knowing wink*

 

[yukio_michael]

Confirm or deny? Okinawans are more endeared to the Americans there than they are to the Japanese mainlanders....? Americans are currently stationed in Okinawa , whom also feel that the rest of Japan should share the "burden" of housing US Military bases--- However, I have read that due to racial tensions in the past, and slights from mainland Japan, Okinawa feels closer to it's American occupants than to Japan.
Has anyone else read this?

 

[klepman_1971]

they definatly should leave from japan, it makes me sick that there are american forces in japan.

 

[klepman_1971]

Confirm or deny? Okinawans are more endeared to the Americans there than they are to the Japanese mainlanders....? Americans are currently stationed in Okinawa, whom also feel that the rest of Japan should share the "burden" of housing US Military bases--- However, I have read that due to racial tensions in the past, and slights from mainland Japan, Okinawa feels closer to it's American occupants than to Japan.
Has anyone else read this?

dont believe everything u read

 

[DoctorP]

dont believe everything u read

Can I at least believe the things that I see?

Do you believe that Japan has legal right to control OKinawa?

 

[MajideSaiaku]

I believe japan has a legal right to all its current territories (and those islands held by russia) and that even though the americans should always remember they are guests in the country and the japanese have their own governments and decisions on your stay in their country, if the japanese are wanting the americans out, they should at least spare a thought for why the americans there there in the first place, and the consiquences for japan without the americans defence presence.

Ive been thinknig about the american presence here since i laid eyes on the distinctively coloured yokata airbase buildings and its perimeter fence, and though i wouldnt like the US presence in my country, the UK isnt facing any threat from mainland europe, but thanks to the near history of asian politics, japan cannot claim to be entirely safe from threat, as chinese frothing out the mouth over japans war-time actions show, so.

Saying that, i wonder how america would react in the most unlikely event the japanese decided the americans should leave.

No doubt america would put sanctions and treat japan much like any other rogue state, few countries get to escape the "your either with us or against us" foreign policy.

That is not in japans interests either.

As such, i say it isnt time for the US forces to leave japan, though i dont claim to support american presence as a principal in other peoples countries, the fact of reality is that sometimes these things cannot be helped, and indeed, serve the interests of a country better then with their absence, america may behave a bit roughly now and then, but, america is still a good ally of most of the western world, and still stands for freedoms and democracy, even if sometimes people feel it is misguided.

But also, Americans shoould always remember that they are guests in this and other countries, and that when they step beyond the gates of their base, they are under the full weight and jurisdiction of that countries laws, and as such they are fully responsible for their own conduct.

As a foreign visitor without such military affiliations, i am under the same expectations.
Also, it may be no secret that as a US serviceman, i might be treated more harshly if i was to commit an offence, to serve an example.

Hopefully though japanese and americans will continue to maintain a tolerant friendly attitude towards each other.

The US presence here is here for the forseeable future until the japanese government or US administration sees fit to withdraw the bases.

 

[sabro]

Nurizeko- don't we (the US) still maintain bases at Holy Loch and Falsbrook, Scotland? I think we have an airbase further south at Suffolk also. Is the Japanese situation analogous?

 

[MajideSaiaku]

possibly sabro, im not aware of this myself and if they do exist they must be top secret because nobody has ever mentioned to me.
Chances are their small facilities with few personel, nothing on the scale of the facilites and personel in japan.
Also being a predominantly white country, the odd american wont look too out of place.
Probably more americans working in the north sea oil bussiness then US millitary personel.

 

[zeroyon]

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[Jim Hodges]

Very strange. When I left Japan the first time it was 360 yen to the dollar. I went back and it was 260 yen to a dollar. I just took my wife to Okinawa and the yen was even with the dollar. It seems it would be better if the dollar were stronger so that people visiting Japan could buy more. Now it is too expensive to go.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Very strange. When I left Japan the first time it was 360 yen to the dollar. I went back and it was 260 yen to a dollar. I just took my wife to Okinawa and the yen was even with the dollar. It seems it would be better if the dollar were stronger so that people visiting Japan could buy more. Now it is too expensive to go.

The dollar is just weak lately...for a looong time.


For example the British pound is worth more then a dollar at the mo, i guess its a slumping economical phase to blame.

 

[Reiku]

That, or it's because we keep electing presidents who don't know how to tie their shoes, let alone balance a budget...

Personally, I don't think we had any buisness being there in the first place. A country's millitary should be in their country, defending their borders--there's really no justifiable reasons for them to be anywhere or do anything else, IMO.

Anyway, one last smarta** remark before I'm done with this topic:

...Having military forces in Japan was a financial benefit to the Japanese when they recovered from the devastation of the Second World War,...

Who caused that devastation again?

It was us, wasn't it?

Isn't that kind of like burning someone's house down, and then showing up with a shotgun and offering to guard the place while they rebuild?

 

[Han Chan]

The Japanese tax payers precently pays 230 billion yen annually for having the US forces in the country. Now US demands that Japan shall pay 75% of the costs for moving troops to bases in Guam.

Todays editorial from Asahi is interesting reading:
"Cost of U.S. troops move (03/20/2006):
Talks continue over Washington's demand that Tokyo foot three-quarters of the bill to relocate U.S. Marine troops from Okinawa Prefecture to Guam, a move that is part of the realignment plan for the U.S. military forces in Japan.
The cost of this proposed transfer is exorbitant. The U.S. Defense Department estimates it will cost at least $10 billion (1.16 trillion yen), and insists Japan shoulder 75 percent of that expense, or $7.5 billion (870 billion yen)."

You can find the rest of the editorial through this link:
The Asahi Shimbun | Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

What do you think is it fair that US demands Japan should pay these exorbitant costs? I don't - and I think even asking this price is offending!

 

[Panta Ray]

I hate USA army. They try to kill my in 1999, It is personale.

 

[DoctorP]

I hate USA army. They try to kill my in 1999, It is personale.

Sorry for your troubles, but just so you know it would be the US Army, not the USA Army (which is redundant!)

 

[Panta Ray]

Yes, US army. Sorry. I don't like terrorist, but I don't like bully also.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

The Japanese tax payers precently pays 230 billion yen annually for having the US forces in the country. Now US demands that Japan shall pay 75% of the costs for moving troops to bases in Guam.
Todays editorial from Asahi is interesting reading:
"Cost of U.S. troops move (03/20/2006):
Talks continue over Washington's demand that Tokyo foot three-quarters of the bill to relocate U.S. Marine troops from Okinawa Prefecture to Guam, a move that is part of the realignment plan for the U.S. military forces in Japan.
The cost of this proposed transfer is exorbitant. The U.S. Defense Department estimates it will cost at least $10 billion (1.16 trillion yen), and insists Japan shoulder 75 percent of that expense, or $7.5 billion (870 billion yen)."
You can find the rest of the editorial through this link:
The Asahi Shimbun | Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis
What do you think is it fair that US demands Japan should pay these exorbitant costs? I don't - and I think even asking this price is offending!

Why should Japan pay for american forces to move? if the US wants its forces in someone elses backyard it pays for it itself....

Edit: I think this is an example of Americans declining economy, if this continues, the price of being an ally of America will simply be too much, and the United States will find itself without friends pretty quickly.

 

[Sukotto]

Response to ?
Is it time for US Force to leave Japan?

My opnion -- yes.



And do the Okinawans want us there?

Some have said that Okinawans don't really mind that much
about US bases there. So I emailed a couple people about the matter.
I got the following responses:



response #1 (the polite response)

(that those who complain about the US military bases in Okinawa
come mostly from outside) is not true. In fact, Okinawans are really
frustrated by and angry about the indifference the mainland Japanese
show about Okinawans shouldering the burden of the US military bases.
However, the person's mistake is understandable for two reasons. One,
Okinawans are very hospitable and generous people and do not show
their displeasure directly to you. They are almost infinitely
accommodating. But that doesn't mean they are willing to keep the
military bases forever. Two, many Okinawans are economically
dependent on serving the bases and the personnel. They will certainly
not tell their customers to bug off, especially when they have no
alternatives to serving this particular brand of customers. So those
two factors may make Okinawans look "cool" about the bases, but
that's only the surface.

The next time someone says something like what you have heard, ask
that person these questions: Have you made genuine friends with
Okinawans? Have you ever talked with locals about what they really
feel about having the military bases in their own communities? If
Okinawans are really "cool" about having the bases, why do they get
angry about the "incidents" instead of accepting them as part of the
baggage of having the military bases in their own land?

You might want to read "Cocktail Party" by Tatsuhiro Oshiro to
understand the complex psychological landscape of Okinawans about
having to live with the US military
men. Though it's old, but the core hasn't really changed.

---end #1----


response #2 (the less polite one)


I suggest that you read the numerous articles on Okinawa, often by
Okinawans, on the Japan Policy Research Institute web site (see
Okinawa in the Index). www.jpri.org. I interpret the American
soldier's remarks as saying that even though he's secretly ashamed
of what he is doing in Okinawa, he wants to believe that the
Okinawans are really happy to have him there. This is a typical
American male's fantasy: the people he rapes really want it.


---end #2---




Also, I came across a
A Newsletter on Ryukyuan/Okinawan Studies
for people to enjoy.

Archives of Ryukyuanist Newsletter
The Ryukyuanist Newsletter
:148:

 

[zeroyon]

possibly sabro, im not aware of this myself and if they do exist they must be top secret because nobody has ever mentioned to me.
Chances are their small facilities with few personel, nothing on the scale of the facilites and personel in japan.
Also being a predominantly white country, the odd american wont look too out of place.
Probably more americans working in the north sea oil bussiness then US millitary personel.

I am quite suprised that you do not know about Lakenheath, Menwith Hill, and Mildenhall bases. I thought they were well known in the UK, but I guess I was mistaken... ☝

Some information if you need it:
RAF Lakenheath - Wikipedia
RAF Mildenhall - Wikipedia
RAF Menwith Hill - Wikipedia

Although smaller installations (or some now not in use), there is also:
RAF Alconbury - Wikipedia
RAF Ascension Island - Wikipedia
Bicester Airfield - Wikipedia
RAF Chelveston - Wikipedia
RAF Croughton - Wikipedia
RAF Digby - Wikipedia
RAF Fairford - Wikipedia
RAF Feltwell - Wikipedia
RAF Leuchars - Wikipedia
RAF Molesworth - Wikipedia
RAF Oakhanger - Wikipedia
RAF Upwood - Wikipedia
RAF Welford - Wikipedia
and others I don't have convinient links to

 

[Crazy Russian]

I always give vent to my pent-up feelings, vent my righteous anger and use bad language when discussing the US foreign policy. In most cases, it is only striking my head with a cleaver that can silence me.

So in order to not put my oar in the dispute, I shall say only two things:

1. I do dislike the US government to interfere in other people's affairs.

2. There being the US forces in Japan, the US government will not atom-bomb Hiroshima, Nagasaki or any other city lest the forces suffer.

 

[Crazy Russian]

I hate USA army. They try to kill my in 1999, It is personale.

Serbia and Russia are sister nations. I understand you very well...

I have never believed in good intentions of the US government. The US government carries out a dirty and execrable policy all over the world. They have some plans in Japan as well...

Panta Ray, though the Russian government betrayed Serbians in the 90s (I hate Russian politicians for that! I don't know why they did it. ), but Russian people have always loved Serbians and have always been on their side. Please, remember that...

And it's very pity that some politicians should be arse-lickers. Why are they afraid of being at variance with the US government's demagogy?

 

[irishlight42]

I voted 'Yes', but I firmly believe also that there should be SOME REASONABLE limits on Japan's military (Japan needs to be able to defend itself, which doesn't take too much however) until Japan is done denying atrocities from WWII.

A small army with technology such as Japan has, can do a plenty efficient job of defence. A large army, however, is only necessary for taking and occupying other countries. Militarism and nationalism, as can be seen with China (and the U.S. certainly; Bush should be impeached in my opinion honestly) is not a good mix. It is what led to people like Hitler and Hideki Tojo coming to power. Right now, there seems quite some nationalism in Japan (as well as more liberal Japanese, like in the U.S.), unlike in Germany where nationalism is frowned upon as dangerous.

For that matter, the disturbing nationalism needs to be stepped down in the U.S., and Bush needs to stop inflicting fear into the minds of Americans of "radical islamics" the way Hitler inflicted fear in the minds of Germans of "prominent jews", so that Americans will not blindly support the war in Iraq and the denial of "Habeas Corpus" to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

 

[Crazy Russian]

Russia, China and North Korea are the arch-enemies of the USA. Russia is the enemy because it is only Russia that can demolish the United States. Most American politicians avow it. China and North Korea are the ideological enemies of America. It is impossible to manipulate them.

Look at the countries that neighbour Russia. The US government do want them to hate Russia and consequently Russia to dislike them. Moreover, the US government do its utmost for the reciprocal hostility to exist. Fortunately, most of the Russians defy it and the Russian government keeps on maintaining friendly relations with all nations and does not give way to its temper, under whatever American provocation. However, the Latvian, Estonian, Moldavian, Polish, Georgian, Ukrainian, etc. governments hate Russia. Our next-door neighbours Ukraine and Georgia have already had the US forces in their countries. The American state-mongers (as well as two Washington puppets: the Ukrainian president Yushchenko and the Georgian president Saakashvili) say to the Ukrainians and Georgians: "Russia is your enemy! We are here to protect you from the mad Russian bear! Russia wants to enslave you! You can be free only with the Americans!"

There are almost similar relations between "the other countries" (as the American bloke called them) and Japan. China being the enemy of the USA, there must be the US forces in some neighbouring country. Japan is the best place for them. The US government do its utmost for China and Japan to hate each other. Nevertheless, it is not enough for the USA. The USA desires the other neighbouring countries to hate Japan. No wonder if some Japanese people think to themselves: "Damn it! The other countries hate us. The Americans must protect us from them! Let them stay in Japan!"

By posting this message, I also want to indicate one more time that the US government cannot be your friend. As to me, I am willing to be friends with the Americans. However, I am unwilling to be friends with the American politicians and to perceive the US foreign policy as good and careful one. The American double standards drive me the hell mad! It is time to revalue all American values. It is time to revalue the USA. Wherever America extends it defiles cultures.

Many American politicians and people named the USSR "The Evil Empire". Why cannot I name the USA "The Dominant Terrorist Superpower". Especially since, the USA is the Dominant Terrorist Superpower indeed.

So is Koizumi a puppet? To tell the truth, it is very difficult question to answer. I think he is not. Moreover, I do not blame the Japanese government. It is forced to be the US' ally.

The Japanese and the Chinese as well as "the other countries" must be together. They must be friends and look narrowly at the USA. In addition, tell to the US forces "3.14ss off!!!" Let the Yankees get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, Ukraine, Georgia, India, etc.!

I think that Japan must have its own full value army and dismiss the Yankees.Did they (the stupid American politicians) expect us to treat them with any respect?!! (Pink Floyd)

Japan, China and Russia (as well as all the other countries) must be as closer to each other as possible to stand against the American terrorism. It is then that everything will be okay.

The Americans should not be surprised when I call the USA The Dominant Terrorist Superpower and call Bush The Terrorist Number 1. Don't they know that it was Bush who organised the terrorist acts on the 11th of September? Usama Bin Laden is the best friend of Mr Bush. My conjectures proved to be true after watching "Fahrenheit 9/11" by Michael Moore. The British dude from Number 10 is also a terrorist, is not he?

How can the American political dolboyobs and raspizdyays (the words from Anthony Burgess' Nadsat slang) discourse on "war" "protection", et cetera? They do not know what these words mean. All the American politicians can do is extirpating the American Indians, humiliating the Afro-Americans (by the way it is only the American Indians and the Afro-Americans who have a right to live in the USA), bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, bombing Dresden, killing innocent Iraqi children, abusing the Iraqi prisoners, destabilising the situation in the world and the like. So heroic, golden and justified deeds! Are not they?

I am sorry for the "awful truth" but you must ascertain it. In addition, please do not be afraid to call the things by their right names.

Children's happiness and liberty are the most important things we all have. Stop killing children! Stop raping liberty! Otherwise, "Goodbye blue sky. Goodbye"?!

Here Mr Crazy Russian stands.

 

[Carlson]

im going to stop listening to people in this posts. many of them are just not sure what the heck they are talking about. I will take and try to understand what many of the japanese members that live in Japan think but other then that people just really dont know how much we do.