I have a crush on a Japanese woman

[Yakitori3]

While flying to Japan, I met this wonderful flight attendant. I did my best to speak Japanese to her with what little I know. She seemed comfortable to talk to me. Then she gave me post cards, so I took that as a sign that she liked me. I asked for her contact and we've been texting everyday since. After I landed we met up the next day and spent the day together. It went really well and I started to develop a crush on her that's been getting worse everyday.... But I was only in the area for a few days and we wouldn't be able to meet again. I haven't had a crush on someone since I was early 20s (I'm almost 30). We made plans to meet up again at my new location within Japan. I tried very hard to contain my crush but eventually I just told her flat out. At first she was opposed to it, mainly because we would have to be long distance for a time and she would miss me so much, but I felt she was just afraid. It seems to be a common thing that Japanese women would rather give up than give chance to being hurt. She admitted to me that she's had many men interested in her before and some had been rude once she rejected them. She also has an abusive father she hasn't spoken to in years. It seems that she likes me back and I was able to convince her to give us a chance, though I didn't ask to be an item, I told her she doesn't have to say yes or no yet, just say there's a chance. She's expressed she's done with casual dating and we both have the goal of becoming married (not necessarily to each other).

I have many mixed feelings about her. I began researching about Japanese and Western dating/couples and some of what I read scares me. I'm afraid that one day she might just suddenly tell me it won't work, or just ghost me completely. Japanese women are scary. She told me "It's your freedom to have a crush on me but I can't be responsible for any of your feelings, I know it sounds cold but I'm damaged" which worries me because I'm not sure what she really means by that. I'm not sure why I'm posting this here but it feels good just to get it off my chest. I would greatly appreciate any advice....

 

[Lothor]

You met met up the day after landing? Why weren't you in quarantine in a hotel?

 

[Yakitori3]

You met met up the day after landing? Why weren't you in quarantine in a hotel?

I was already in Japan previously, what I meant by "while flying to Japan" was the whole trip, flying there, quarantine, then flying again

 

[mdchachi]

While flying to Japan, I met this wonderful flight attendant. I did my best to speak Japanese to her with what little I know. She seemed comfortable to talk to me. Then she gave me post cards, so I took that as a sign that she liked me. I asked for her contact and we've been texting everyday since. After I landed we met up the next day and spent the day together. It went really well and I started to develop a crush on her that's been getting worse everyday.... But I was only in the area for a few days and we wouldn't be able to meet again. I haven't had a crush on someone since I was early 20s (I'm almost 30). We made plans to meet up again at my new location within Japan. I tried very hard to contain my crush but eventually I just told her flat out. At first she was opposed to it, mainly because we would have to be long distance for a time and she would miss me so much, but I felt she was just afraid. It seems to be a common thing that Japanese women would rather give up than give chance to being hurt. She admitted to me that she's had many men interested in her before and some had been rude once she rejected them. She also has an abusive father she hasn't spoken to in years. It seems that she likes me back and I was able to convince her to give us a chance, though I didn't ask to be an item, I told her she doesn't have to say yes or no yet, just say there's a chance. She's expressed she's done with casual dating and we both have the goal of becoming married (not necessarily to each other).

I have many mixed feelings about her. I began researching about Japanese and Western dating/couples and some of what I read scares me. I'm afraid that one day she might just suddenly tell me it won't work, or just ghost me completely. Japanese women are scary. She told me "It's your freedom to have a crush on me but I can't be responsible for any of your feelings, I know it sounds cold but I'm damaged" which worries me because I'm not sure what she really means by that. I'm not sure why I'm posting this here but it feels good just to get it off my chest. I would greatly appreciate any advice....

I think you should trust your instincts. You could fight hard to get that chance and even get her to acquiesce in the end but chances are she's right in that she is damaged (ie emotionally stunted) and a long-term relationship with her would be frustrating and unhappy for both of you. On top of that you are not even in the same country and can't properly date and get to know each other better. If you don't want to stop pursuing her, at least try to get over the crush stage and move into something more organic and natural.

 

[Yakitori3]

I think you should trust your instincts. You could fight hard to get that chance and even get her to acquiesce in the end but chances are she's right in that she is damaged (ie emotionally stunted) and a long-term relationship with her would be frustrating and unhappy for both of you. On top of that you are not even in the same country and can't properly date and get to know each other better. If you don't want to stop pursuing her, at least try to get over the crush stage and move into something more organic and natural.

I don't think she's emotionally stunted, so far she seems normal. I think she's just criticizing herself. I'm more concerned about the Japanese aspect than anything else, and how I can better understand her and not make a mistake due to cultural differences.
As a flight attendant she gets flights for very cheap, and I have disposable income so it's not impossible. Yes I have a crush and they make you irrational I know... but my instincts say she hasn't revealed anything deal-breaking about herself and we get along well.

 

[Buntaro]

Yakitori,

Slow down. You are going waaay too fast on this.

First things first. What interests and hobbies do you have in common that you can do together and/or talk about? Ping-pong? Japanese history? Square dancing? Going to jazz coffee shops? If the two of you have nothing in common, this is a big red flag.

But the most important thing in any relationship is getting to know the other person's personality quirks, then deciding how to deal with them (or not deal with them, as the case may be). What are all of her personality quirks and how do you plan to deal with them? More important, what are all of YOUR personality quirks and how do you think she plans to deal with them? Are you shy to a significant degree? Do you have any insecurities? Do you sometimes act compulsively? Do you lack self-confidence? Are you arrogant and have a big ego? Are you stoic? Do you have a strong personality, weak personality, or somewhere in between? Have you ever had depression, unexplained anxiety, or an issue with substance abuse? Do not even THINK of getting into a relationship with her (or anyone else) until she knows all of your personality quirks and she has decided how she will deal with them. And vice-versa. The fact that, in my opinion, you are rushing into this is a personality quirk of yours and is a big red flag. And, in my opinion, sending texts everyday at such an early stage in the relationship is another huge red flag. The fact you have rushed into this may have already caused a major strain on this relationship.

You want to get into a relationship with a Japanese woman and you don't know the cultural issues involved? Yikes! That right there tells you that you need to slow down.

I think you can still pursue a relationship with here, just take it real slow. Stop the dating immediately. Not even casual dating. Put ideas of kissing, sex , and dating completely out of your mind for now. Start doing activities together that are not dates. If you want to go watch sumo and she likes sumo, then by all means, go watch sumo together. But it is way too early to even meet up and only have dinner together (which is a type of date).

A long-distance relationship also creates a lot of stress. Been there, done that. If you do what I say and keep it for now as only a hang-out friendship and not even dating, a lot of this stress with be resolved.

 

[mdchachi]

She's already told you that she can't or won't become emotionally invested. She did not have a good home life and maybe not have been exposed to healthy relationships. Plus she hooked up with (or at least consented to meet up with) somebody she briefly met at work. Chances are she didn't do that because she was into you or because you are devastatingly handsome. Probably she's lonely or has other needs. All of those are pink, if not red, flags.
I don't necessarily agree with the "date her but don't date her" advice that Buntaro is giving you. Clearly if you pursue this, it's going to be a romantic relationship.
Just try to make sure you're both on the same page. And try to get past this puppy love phase.

 

[Yakitori3]

Yakitori,

Slow down. You are going waaay too fast on this.

First things first. What interests and hobbies do you have in common that you can do together and/or talk about? Ping-pong? Japanese history? Square dancing? Going to jazz coffee shops? If the two of you have nothing in common, this is a big red flag.

But the most important thing in any relationship is getting to know the other person's personality quirks, then deciding how to deal with them (or not deal with them, as the case may be). What are all of her personality quirks and how do you plan to deal with them? More important, what are all of YOUR personality quirks and how do you think she plans to deal with them? Are you shy to a significant degree? Do you have any insecurities? Do you sometimes act compulsively? Do you lack self-confidence? Are you arrogant and have a big ego? Are you stoic? Do you have a strong personality, weak personality, or somewhere in between? Have you ever had depression, unexplained anxiety, or an issue with substance abuse? Do not even THINK of getting into a relationship with her (or anyone else) until she knows all of your personality quirks and she has decided how she will deal with them. And vice-versa. The fact that, in my opinion, you are rushing into this is a personality quirk of yours and is a big red flag. And, in my opinion, sending texts everyday at such an early stage in the relationship is another huge red flag. The fact you have rushed into this may have already caused a major strain on this relationship.

You want to get into a relationship with a Japanese woman and you don't know the cultural issues involved? Yikes! That right there tells you that you need to slow down.

I think you can still pursue a relationship with here, just take it real slow. Stop the dating immediately. Not even casual dating. Put ideas of kissing, sex , and dating completely out of your mind for now. Start doing activities together that are not dates. If you want to go watch sumo and she likes sumo, then by all means, go watch sumo together. But it is way too early to even meet up and only have dinner together (which is a type of date).

A long-distance relationship also creates a lot of stress. Been there, done that. If you do what I say and keep it for now as only a hang-out friendship and not even dating, a lot of this stress with be resolved.

I feel like your approach would just end with being lonely. But what you say about personality quirks is something to think about. We are learning about each other a lot and it's going well. I don't think I'm rushing anything, since I didn't ask her to date me yet. I just asked if there was a chance. When we met up that time it wasn't so much a date as just hanging out together. I didn't even touch her until she hugged me goodbye. She told me at one point (much later) she wants someone who loves her a lot so maybe our red flags combine into a green flag lol.
What I meant by 'I don't want to make a mistake due to cultural differences' is for example, I just recently learned "the moon is beautiful tonight" is a way to say "I love you" and I could've accidently said that! I want to learn these type of things. I was thinking people on this forum know about this stuff and could share some advice.

She's already told you that she can't or won't become emotionally invested. She did not have a good home life and maybe not have been exposed to healthy relationships. Plus she hooked up with (or at least consented to meet up with) somebody she briefly met at work. Chances are she didn't do that because she was into you or because you are devastatingly handsome. Probably she's lonely or has other needs. All of those are pink, if not red, flags.
I don't necessarily agree with the "date her but don't date her" advice that Buntaro is giving you. Clearly if you pursue this, it's going to be a romantic relationship.
Just try to make sure you're both on the same page. And try to get past this puppy love phase.

She didn't say she can't or won't, she's just afraid to. We talked about how we met and she admitted I was kind and she was into me (I'm not so bad in the looks department either). It's entirely possible she's lonely, but isn't that a common trait of Japanese? You both mention red flags, but seriously, no one is perfect, and I want to give this a chance.

 

[mdchachi]

Most of us here have dated Japanese people and/or are married to them. So we can probably help in the cultural awareness department but for the most part there's no master list we can give you. Since, really, they are people too and respond and behave similarly as other people. The moon thing depends on context and if you happened to say the moon is beautiful, she's not going to immediately jump to the conclusion and you are saying "I love you."
I suppose as you ask questions things might come up that we can help with. I recommend buying a copy of Making Out in Japanese. It's essentially a phrase book for dating Japanese and it could provide some good conversation starters and fun for you and her when you interact.

 

[Lothor]

About the moon being beautiful: in 18 years of living in Japan, I don't think anyone has ever overestimated my language ability or cultural understanding, and usually it has been underestimated - the ohashi ga o-jozu desu ne phenomenon. You will not be expected to know things like the moon being beautiful being a euphemism for declaring love, which I suspect is rather old-fashioned these days. You will find behaviour puzzling at times but I don't think you need to worry about making a faux pas because of lack of familiarity with the culture - a lot of allowances are made for foreigners and you don't sound like the sort of person who would make a big error like charging into her apartment with your shoes on!

 

[mdchachi]

I will give you one tip. If you decide to buy her flowers, don't go for a cheaper bouquet heavy on the chrysanthemums.

仏壇の花 at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Yakitori3]

Thanks guys.
Recently, I was asking what kind of gifts she might like. I knew already she loves cats too much, so I mentioned stuffed animals, and she said she has too many. I said that's too bad, I was thinking about getting her a cat one and her response was kind of cold. She said "I'm not a 5 yo girl anymore." Ok fair enough, but I was talking about giving her a gift. I said "that's a little cold" and she said "women are like that." I still like her but I feel the crush starting to fade.

 

[Buntaro]

I just recently learned "the moon is beautiful tonight" is a way to say "I love you" and I could've accidentally said that!

I would put this into the category of 'cute mistakes gaijin (がいじん) (外人) make'. I once gave a Japanese lady friend some flowers when I went to see her, and I was told Japanese men never do this. These things are not worth worrying about.

By the way, are you learning Japanese?

If you want to know what kinds of important mistakes not to make, one of the biggest differences between Japanese and Americans (are you American?) is how giving apologies is extremely important in Japan. For example, let's say you plan to meet your friend at a train station at 9:15. They get there at 9:05 and you get there are 9:10. You are expected to apologize for making them wait (by saying omatase itashimashita) even though you got there before the designated time..

If you really want to understand Japanese culture, there are two books I recommend. One is Japanese Society by Chie Nakanae, which explains (among other things) the high importance of using business cards in Japan.

h ttps://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Society-Center-Studies-Berkeley/dp/0520021541/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1639839991&refinements=p_27%3AChie+Nakane&s=books&sr=1-1

Another book I recommend is The Anatomy of Dependence by Takeo Doi, which gives a very good explanation of the all-important Japanese concept of sempai-kohai.

h ttps://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Dependence-Takeo-Doi-M-D/dp/1568365519

(Remove the spaces in https. I would have posted regular links but Amazon is refusing to let me do this.)

 

[Buntaro]

She didn't say she can't or won't, she's just afraid to.

Then take the time (at least a couple of months) to let her get to know you slowly, to know you well enough where she doesn't need to feel afraid.

Recently, I was asking what kind of gifts she might like.

This is a perfect example of getting too romantic too soon. Stop the romantic stuff for now. Treat her just like one of the guys. (Yes, you read that right.) You wouldn't ask this of one of your buddies back home, so don't ask it of her. Tell you have heard of cat cafes in Japan (have you?), that you want to go to one, and ask her if she would like to go to one too.

Friendship first, romance later.

 

[Yakitori3]

Most of us here have dated Japanese people and/or are married to them.

Could you all tell me what I'm in for then? Reading online I'm encountering a lot of negative experiences... and it's starting to worry me. Things like they are overly concerned with money or once you get married they change completely. She has mentioned she broke up with an ex because he was in debt and was called a gold digger by his family.... I thought it's fair to want a financially responsible partner but maybe there was more to it. Her mom is also demanding her to marry a man with wealth and status but she's expressed they have disagreements on that.

 

[Lothor]

A common difficulty with relationships (not just romantic ones) with Japanese people is the importance of loyalty to the group and also to the codes of behaviour Japanese people think that society expects of them. Of course, we all face the conflict between what we desire and our obligations every day of our lives - it would be lovely to spend another hour in a warm bed with the person we love, but we get up to go to work. However, things are far more weighted toward duty in Japan. I can think of two examples of this I've experienced in my relationship with my wife. First, her being taken advantage of in her job and having to work to an extent that has had a very negative effect on her and on our relationship - it seems less stressful for her to do the exhausting work and accept the negative consequences than to assert herself at work. Second, her behaviour changed very abruptly when she became a mother in a way that western women don't tend to (according to discussions with friends with British wives) - her way of talking, her mannerisms and various other aspects of our marriage completely changed. It was as if something inside her said "I'm a mother now, and because I'm a mother I'm expected to behave in a certain way." This seems to be very common.
In short, although I have a warm relationship with my wife, I've ended up realising that I play second fiddle to the real and imagined obligations she has to society.

Don't worry too much about the gold diggers. They exist of course, but you'll spot them, and I don't think it's a worse problem than elsewhere.

 

[Yakitori3]

Second, her behaviour changed very abruptly when she became a mother in a way that western women don't tend to (according to discussions with friends with British wives) - her way of talking, her mannerisms and various other aspects of our marriage completely changed. It was as if something inside her said "I'm a mother now, and because I'm a mother I'm expected to behave in a certain way." This seems to be very common.

Could you elaborate on this? In what ways was she acting?

 

[Lothor]

Could you elaborate on this? In what ways was she acting?

It's difficult to put my finger on it, and we're also getting close to territory that I don't want to discuss publicly, but it did feel and still does feel like living with a different person from the one I knew before she became a mother. I still occasionally get to see the previous person on the rare occasions we spend the night together in a hotel away from the children or we go to Britain, but most of the time I feel that her real self has been submerged under layers of real and imagined duty, even when she's at home.

 

[mdchachi]

Could you all tell me what I'm in for then?

We all have only a few data points so it's difficult to generalize. Yes, people may change attitudes when they get married or have kids but isn't that common practically everywhere? It sounds like her family could be a problem but, again, in-laws are a common problem in any society.

 

[Buntaro]

She has mentioned she broke up with an ex... Her mom is also demanding her to marry a man with wealth and status...

I have two reactions.

Be her friend. Help her to deal with these things, if only by listening.

But I am concerned that she may be sharing too much too soon, or that she complains too much. She has already complained to you about her father, her mother, and her ex-boyfriend. The rule I use is 10%. If she talks about such things more than 10% of the time, that is too much. (Does she?) I am reminded of a woman at my workplace who was recently divorced. She was a nice person and I would sometimes sit with her during lunch break and talk with her. We had interesting discussions, but the conversations would always end up with her talking about her divorce, and then our discussions would become depressing. It got to the point where I didn't sit with her during lunch break anymore.

 

[Yakitori3]

I have two reactions.

Be her friend. Help her to deal with these things, if only by listening.

But I am concerned that she may be sharing too much too soon, or that she complains too much. She has already complained to you about her father, her mother, and her ex-boyfriend. The rule I use is 10%. If she talks about such things more than 10% of the time, that is too much. (Does she?)

She only mentioned those things once, her mother twice. I took it as a good sign that she's willing to share those personal things with me.

Currently she is having some type of fun trip with her bestie and has texted me a lot less frequently. I've been trying to take a back seat and rarely message but not sure if I'm doing the right thing... maybe she will lose interest or think I lost interest. I certainly miss her

 

[Lothor]

She only mentioned those things once, her mother twice. I took it as a good sign that she's willing to share those personal things with me.

Currently she is having some type of fun trip with her bestie and has texted me a lot less frequently. I've been trying to take a back seat and rarely message but not sure if I'm doing the right thing... maybe she will lose interest or think I lost interest. I certainly miss her

I don't think people lose interest in just a few days - I certainly don't! You're probably doing the right thing taking the back seat until she's back from her trip.

 

[Yakitori3]

Ok, she came back and we are chatting more intensely than ever, so yeah. She seems a lot less Japanese than most Japanese so I'm not too worried anymore.

 

[mdchachi]

Ok, she came back and we are chatting more intensely than ever, so yeah. She seems a lot less Japanese than most Japanese so I'm not too worried anymore.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Muz1234]

I think there is a Japanese phrase, ichi-go ichi-e, would that apply to the situation for this?