How

Kenkaku musei · 7 Jun 2004

do you tell what the stem word is in a verb or noun or adjective and how can you tell what suffix to add to it.

also how do you know when the stem word is supposed to change.

help onigaishimasu! ^^ ☝

Glenn · 7 Jun 2004

The stem is the entire word up until u for Group I verbs, and up until ru for Group II verbs. Group II verbs all end in either iru or eru, so they're pretty easy to pick out. If a verb doesn't end in either iru or eru, then it is Group I.

Kenkaku musei · 7 Jun 2004

Hai but how can you tell what suffix should follow what verb?

Glenn · 7 Jun 2004

I don't know what you're asking. What exactly do you mean by suffix? Could you give me an example?

Kenkaku musei · 7 Jun 2004

ex kaku means to speak the stem is kaki how do you get the stem kaki from the dictionary form kaku

Glenn · 7 Jun 2004

The stem is kak, not kaki.

PaulTB · 7 Jun 2004

Glenn said:
The stem is kak, not kaki.

Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

Kenkaku musei · 7 Jun 2004

PaulTB said:
Glenn said:

The stem is kak, not kaki.

Click to expand...

Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

hai... So how would you recommend finding the stem?

and also when dropping the u or r u off of a word how do you know what ending suffix to use? Is there a General rule.

Elizabeth · 7 Jun 2004

Kenkaku musei said:
ex kaku means to speak the stem is kaki how do you get the stem kaki from the dictionary form kaku

This Kaku at least (書く） means to write, not speak.

PaulTB · 7 Jun 2004

Kenkaku musei said:
hai... So how would you recommend finding the stem?

Well like I said I don't use the 'stem' term much. I suppose I worked from

1. Recognizing the forms.

e.g.
たべない = plain negative
かきます = polite
した = plain past
きませんでした = polite past negative
いけない = potential negative

2. Working out the dictionary form given a non-dictionary form (and vice versa)

Ichidan
たべない -> たべる

Godan :
かきます -> かく

Irregular :
した -> する
きませんでした -> くる
いけない -> いく

NOTE that there are ambiguities.
For example the example I gave, きませんでした -> くる could equally be きませんでしたきる -> きる. The first is from the irregular verb '来る' 'to come', and the second from the Ichidan verb '着る' 'to wear'.

There are plenty of web pages out there on this stuff.

Kenkaku musei · 7 Jun 2004

the only thing is i can't read hiragana yet and i also cannot see the charaters because i'm at work. can some one translate?

Angy · 8 Jun 2004

PaulTB wrote:

Well like I said I don't use the 'stem' term much. I suppose I worked from

1. Recognizing the forms.

e.g.
tabenai = plain negative
kakimasu = polite
shita = plain past
kimasendeshita = polite past negative
ikenai = potential negative

2. Working out the dictionary form given a non-dictionary form (and vice versa)

Ichidan
tabenai -> taberu

Godan :
kakimasu -> kaku

Irregular :
shita -> suru
kimasendeshita-> kuru
ikenai -> iku

NOTE that there are ambiguities.
For example the example I gave, kimasendeshita -> kuru could equally be kimasendeshitakiru -> kiru. The first is from the irregular verb 'kuru' 'to come', and the second from the Ichidan verb 'kiru' 'to wear'.

There are plenty of web pages out there on this stuff.

Kenkaku musei · 8 Jun 2004

Douzo!!! i'm getting better at this thanks angy anf paul and glen

and i figured out how the grammar book got kaki as a stem. i=the veb inflection. so kak is the actual stem but add the inflection and you get kaki
!!

YAtta!!

Glenn · 9 Jun 2004

PaulTB said:
Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

Yes, I know. In fact, I was almost certain that someone would bring this up. It seems too that he was using two different definitions for "stem," so that was adding to his confusion. I think that the romaji version is useful for foreign learners, at least if only in the initial stages, though.

Kenkaku musei · 10 Jun 2004

I figured it out though
it depends on how you take on the meaning of stem. I have been advancing in my stufies and i see now why in some books the "stem" ends differently than explained. it's because the "i" or additional letter is usually an inflection.if you remove the inflection you get the true"stem"

ex. kaku
the stem as shown in the book is kaki

the inflection is the"i"

drop the "i" and you get Kak

which is the true stem

How

Kenkaku musei

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Glenn

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Kenkaku musei

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Glenn

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Kenkaku musei

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Glenn

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PaulTB

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Kenkaku musei

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Elizabeth

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PaulTB

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Angy

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Glenn

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Kenkaku musei

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