How to work it out?

black_whispers · 31 Dec 2008

Hi, I'm trying to translate sentences that my brother gave me. I'm getting confused on some things though.

通学風景
通学 = 'commuting to school' according to wakan... but then
風景 = 'scenery'
So together this would be 'Scenery while commuting to school'?

The sentence it is from is:
毎日の変わり映えのない、通学風景の中で
Every day, reflection doesn't change, scenery while commuting to school's middle? As you can see, I'm not too good at this

So what I'm asking is, can someone explain how to understand the meaning of two words put together (such as 通学風景) and how to work out its meaning in relation to the rest of the sentence it is in?

I know, big thing, but I can't understand it one bit, and my brother is too busy to help he works too hard.

Thanks!!

Glenn · 31 Dec 2008

black_whispers said:
通学風景
通学 = 'commuting to school' according to wakan... but then
風景 = 'scenery'
So together this would be 'Scenery while commuting to school'?

Almost. "The scene of commuting to school." 風景 seems to be from the direction of a bystander watching an action more than meaning just 景色 in this instance.

black_whispers said:
The sentence it is from is:
毎日の変わり映えのない、通学風景の中で
Every day, reflection doesn't change, scenery while commuting to school's middle? As you can see, i'm not too good at this

It's more like "in the midst of the never-changing scenery of children going to school every day."

black_whispers said:
So what I'm asking is, can someone explain how to understand the meaning of two words put together (such as 通学風景) and how to work out its meaning in relation to the rest of the sentence it is in?

Knowing and understanding the words in a sentence well is a really big part of it. For example, there's absolutely no way that 通学風景の中で could mean anything about the middle of the school, because the school isn't actually mentioned. 通学 is a commute to school; it points to the action of commuting. Here it's describing 風景: the scene of the commute to school. Then you get that's 中, so you're in the middle of the scenery of the commute to school.

Basically it's about practice and familiarity. You study the words and their meanings and see how they're used in sentences, and by doing that you get a deeper understanding of what the word means and how it's used, and with that knowledge you dissect sentences more easily and accurately until it gets to where it's automatic because you've done it and practiced it so much. It's the same with grammar as it is with vocabulary. Of course, any time you're stuck just ask, because without knowing what's going on in the first place nothing else can happen*. Does that help to answer your question?

*And as I say that I'm only mostly sure that 風景 refers to the scene of students going to school. A Google image search for 通学風景 is what gave me that impression. This 越天楽 page helped confirm it.

black_whispers · 1 Jan 2009

Thank you, very helpful.
I managed to get my brother to give me the rest of the sentence (Thought it was, because it has で at the end)
He said its from the manga 'school days'
毎日の変わり映えのない
通学風景の中で、最近ちょっとした
楽しみがある

in the midst of the never-changing scenery of children going to school every day,
nowadays i have one bit of pleasure.

The next bit is:
来たッ
彼女だ

So could this be taken to mean:

In the middle of an everyday, never changing scene, of children commuting to school, there is one pleasure that I have; Here she comes... the girl!

Am I right?
Its confusing. Very hard to express in English.
In English, I would probably omit the 'scene of commuting to school' and make it:
In the middle of the never changing scene of daily commuting, I find a single pleasure; And here she comes; the girl!

Thanks for the help.
Thanks to http-//blogs.dion.ne-jp/gagaku/archives/7936030.ht-ml (not enough posts to put urls yet) I understand the meaning of 通学風景, even though I can't put it into English.

Thanks

Glenn · 2 Jan 2009

Looks good to me.

black_whispers · 2 Jan 2009

I have a couple more sentences, this time from Japanese for Busy people. Would someone mind checking my translations?

クラークさんは去年の五月から日本にいます。そして来年の三月までいます。
Mr Clark (is) in Japan from May last year, until march next year.
(Confused me, because います is in present tense...)

私は仕事の前に新聞を読みます。
I read the newspaper before work.

しんかんせんは何時にきょうとを出ますか。
What time does the shinkansen leave kyoto?

And also, I'm having trouble with connecting these sentences (If I remember correctly, you can't link 〜ましょう with the て form, but this question says 'Connect the following sentences using the -te form', and this one is mixed in with them)
映画を見ましょう。食事をしましょう。
Lets go see a movie. Lets (do) go for a meal.

Obviously that could be linked to be 'Lets go and see a movie, and then go for a meal', but I don't know how to link that in Japanese.

By the way, thanks Glenn for the help on the other sentence.

Thanks
black_whispers

nice gaijin · 2 Jan 2009

black_whispers said:
クラークさんは去年の五月から日本にいます。そして来年の三月までいます。
Mr Clark (is) in Japan from May last year, until march next year.
(Confused me, because います is in present tense...)

yeah that's fine, the present tense just means that he's currently there.

私は仕事の前に新聞を読みます。
I read the newspaper before work.

しんかんせんは何時にきょうとを出ますか。
What time does the shinkansen leave kyoto?

And also, I'm having trouble with connecting these sentences (If I remember correctly, you can't link ～ましょう with the て form, but this question says 'Connect the following sentences using the -te form', and this one is mixed in with them)
映画を見ましょう。食事をしましょう。
Lets go see a movie. Lets (do) go for a meal.

Obviously that could be linked to be 'Lets go and see a movie, and then go for a meal', but I don't know how to link that in Japanese.

The te form can be used to link clauses, and the final conjugation is what where the meaning comes from. For example, the set phrase when you leave the house いってきます uses the te form to link いく and くる to mean something like "i'll go and come back."

Hope that helps

black_whispers · 2 Jan 2009

So in that case, I can turn 見ましょう to 見て, and link?

映画を見て、食事をしましょう。

Is that right then?
And I never thought about いってきます being two verbs mixed! Although its logical that it has become an expression through evolution...
Wonder if it is similar with いただきます

Thanks

nice gaijin · 2 Jan 2009

black_whispers said:
So in that case, I can turn 見ましょう to 見て, and link?

映画を見て、食事をしましょう。

Is that right then?

you got it

And I never thought about いってきます being two verbs mixed! Although its logical that it has become an expression through evolution...
Wonder if it is similar with いただきます
ｷ

Thanks

いただきます is actually a humble form of 食べる／飲む／もらう, and it's a set phrase for whenever you are receiving something or about to eat.

LukeSettle · 2 Jan 2009

EDIT: ahhh nice-gaijin-san, you beat me to the punch

ahaha good observation but they are different.

行って来ます「いってきます」 is the connection of the verb 'iku' (to go) and the verb 'kuru' (to come) 'iku' i made into the -te form and attached to the polite present form of 'kuru' to make ittekimasu, whereas 戴きます「いただきます」 is the polite form of the verb 'itadaku' which is the humble verb meaning to receive. 'Itadakimasu' on its own is a set phrase said before eating a meal.

Another point on the -te form
attached to a verb/i-adjective it can mean 'did/it was ___ and ...'

デパートに行って、買い物しました
I/he/she/it went to the department store and shopped.

hope this helps!

Toritoribe · 2 Jan 2009

LukeSettle said:
Another point on the -te form
attached to a verb/i-adjective it can mean 'did/it was ___ and ...'

デパートに行って、買い物しました
I/he/she/it went to the department store and shopped.

Te-form itself does not have tense. ;-)ﾂ Tense is carried by the sentence final verb.

past;
デパートに行って、買い物しました。
I went to the department store and shopped.

future;
明日デパートに行って、買い物します。
I will go to the department store and shop tomorrow.

black_whispers · 3 Jan 2009

Thank you everybody. Now I understand. To link two sentences that have the same verb form (eg, 友達にあいます。家に行きます。 becomes 友達にあって、家に行きます。This could also be past form:
友達にあって、家に行きました。

-mashou form
あって、家に行きましょう。(just put あって because it makes no sense to say 友達にあいましょう。, at least, not in my head)

Basically... the て form takes the form of the final verb in the sentence.

Now, more sentences xD

ケーキを食べてもいい？
Is it ok to eat cake?

私は今家をいます。
I am in my house now.

日本のふるいかぐを買いたいです。
(Is furui's kanji 古い?)
Want to buy old Japanese furniture.

Thanks for all the help. I guess these are the last sentences I will ask for xD

Thanks a bunch
black_whispers

Glenn · 3 Jan 2009

black_whispers said:
Thank you everybody. Now I understand. To link two sentences that have the same verb form (eg, 友達にあいます。家に行きます。 becomes 友達にあって、家に行きます。This could also be past form:
友達にあって、家に行きました。

-mashou form
あって、家に行きましょう。(just put あって because it makes no sense to say 友達にあいましょう。, at least, not in my head)

Yep.

black_whispers said:
Basically... the て form takes the form of the final verb in the sentence.

Now, more sentences xD

ケーキを食べてもいい？
Is it ok to eat cake?

私は今家をいます。
I am in my house now.

日本のふるいかぐを買いたいです。
(Is furui's kanji 古い?)
Want to buy old Japanese furniture.

Everything is right except the particle in the second sentence: 私は今家にいます. And yes, 古い is the correct kanji.

black_whispers · 4 Jan 2009

Thank you Glenn, and everybody else. This was a great help!

black_whispers

LukeSettle · 4 Jan 2009

ありがとうトリトリベさん！
I forgot to mention that, XD
yepp the -te form takes the tense of the final verb. >.<

How to work it out?

black_whispers

暗

Glenn

一切皆苦

black_whispers

暗

Glenn

一切皆苦

black_whispers

暗

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

black_whispers

暗

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

LukeSettle

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

black_whispers

暗

Glenn

一切皆苦

black_whispers

暗

LukeSettle

先輩

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